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Old February 3rd, 2010, 05:57 AM   #121
SharonK
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Bok House

Stupid Stupid people!
Stupidity in this country has no bounds.
how can a government allow this to happen.
I am returning after so many number of years and I find this !!?
Kuala Lumpur is becoming another Dubai. They have no heritage homes out there in the desert and trying to make a city out of malls and mega structures and this country thinks its a great thing to follow the example of Dubai.

KL has so many treasures that need preserving but instead of thinking on how to use them to add value, it believes that modern architecture is the way to go . If I wanted to see modern , I can go elsewhere. Its the people, the culture the old buildings that brings the visitors not stupid governing bodies!

Its like throwing peals to swine
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 07:47 AM   #122
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i just hope that the land does not turn into another chinese restaurant in the Tai Thong chain...

look at Royal China - PJ Tai Thong (SS2) - Summer Palace - all sited in prime commercial lands... all reserved for future generations of Danny Tan.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:35 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by ericyong View Post
i just hope that the land does not turn into another chinese restaurant in the Tai Thong chain...

look at Royal China - PJ Tai Thong (SS2) - Summer Palace - all sited in prime commercial lands... all reserved for future generations of Danny Tan.
There was a news about Royal China.... gonna be a new OSK tower?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 08:01 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharonK View Post
Stupid Stupid people!
Stupidity in this country has no bounds.
how can a government allow this to happen.
I am returning after so many number of years and I find this !!?
Kuala Lumpur is becoming another Dubai. They have no heritage homes out there in the desert and trying to make a city out of malls and mega structures and this country thinks its a great thing to follow the example of Dubai.

KL has so many treasures that need preserving but instead of thinking on how to use them to add value, it believes that modern architecture is the way to go . If I wanted to see modern , I can go elsewhere. Its the people, the culture the old buildings that brings the visitors not stupid governing bodies!

Its like throwing peals to swine
are you sure blaming government is the right thing to do in this case? why not blame the past owner? or the new owner?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 08:13 PM   #125
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only buildings that has been gazetted as heritage buildings cannot be demolished if i'm not mistaken...so buildings such as the bok house which at that time weren't gazetted was the reason the government couldn't do anything when the OWNER decided to demolished it to make way for a 'car park'....
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 08:16 PM   #126
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odeon cinemas in jalan dang wangi is a good example...at any time the OWNER can demolished it to make way for a new building if he chooses to...because it's not a gazetted as a heritage building..(it will be a shamed if it were to happen because i think it's a wonderful piece of history)
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 10:31 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by cullen View Post
are you sure blaming government is the right thing to do in this case? why not blame the past owner? or the new owner?
If the government does not take charge, greedy people can destroy the heritage of Malaysia as long as they have the money and influence. Good government does not let that happen to a country's heritage, unless they are "selective" about what kind of heritage they are protecting, or not at all.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #128
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are you sure blaming government is the right thing to do in this case? why not blame the past owner? or the new owner?

I won't blame the past owner or the new owner because even as a historical buff myself, I wouldn't be preserving a building that is costing me a bomb to maintain every month. This is survival. So the logical thing for historical buildings to survive is with govt intervention. So yea.....the govt are to be FULLY BLAMED for this loss. As for the new owner? What have you been smoking?
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Old February 5th, 2010, 04:41 AM   #129
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i think both parties is to be blame for this destruction....one is just greedy for development and another one is just incompetent in preserving the nation's history
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Old February 5th, 2010, 06:07 AM   #130
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The bok house already vanished.

I think it wont be demolished if the owner oso taking care of the house.
for example Saloma Bistro building..and many others old..historical building that the owner turned into business asset.

they are opted to keep it..or destroyed it.

unfortunately...the bok house are not located in a row of heritage/historical buildings.

its location alone are too commercial ...and belong to private owner.


the things is..govt only preserved if it is a public buildings such as post office..or a museum once.

i guess majority malaysian will protest if for example the old ktm building going to be demolish.

what if the govt wanted to preserved this building, how much govt need to pay to the owner.
or shud govt take over this building and give amount of compensation to the owner.i dont think the owner opted for compensation...

it is more profit to sell the land for commercial development.

its all about $$$.

Last edited by XNeo; February 5th, 2010 at 06:22 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #131
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err...saloma bistro is a completely new building...if not mistaken.

i put blame on may parties. why? simply unfair just to blame government on this. even when we say 'government', who are they? the DBKL? the ministry? or the barisan?

in this case;

the owner
1. have a total ownership of the property. 100%. they have fully right on their land.
2. fail to see the historical value of the building.
3. fail to regard the building as their family's heritage.
4. desperate to get money might be.

the new owner
1. unimaginative. fail to utilise the building into something profitable. boutique hotel for example.
2. stupid. fail to associate the building into the new structure. refer W Hotel project in BKK.
3. only think money come from highrise.

the ministry/DBKL
1. doesn't have clear guildeline on the definition of 'heritage' building.
2. doesn't have the vision on heritage conservation program throughout KL. they only think heritage buildings only exist in melaka and georgetown.

the rakyat as general
1. having mentality of 'old is ugly' and 'new is modern and progress'
2. ....aiseh, tak macam european lah how we see architecture. european put old building in respect. interesting that peoples in Beirut (not european anyway) rebuilt their properties after war damage in its previous facade. in other word, they rebuilt it. not replaced with glassy unimaginative new monster.

...in fact, takkanlah government nak purchase that house sampai beratus-ratus juta? is it worth for government to spend wang rakyat to buy the house while they can better spend the money for preserving Kampung Baru, the living heritage.

orang lain buat masalah, takkan government all the time kena wash their ass?
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Old February 5th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAH FIRDAUS View Post
i think both parties is to be blame for this destruction....one is just greedy for development and another one is just incompetent in preserving the nation's history
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNeo View Post
The bok house already vanished.

I think it wont be demolished if the owner oso taking care of the house.
for example Saloma Bistro building..and many others old..historical building that the owner turned into business asset.

they are opted to keep it..or destroyed it.

unfortunately...the bok house are not located in a row of heritage/historical buildings.

its location alone are too commercial ...and belong to private owner.


the things is..govt only preserved if it is a public buildings such as post office..or a museum once.

i guess majority malaysian will protest if for example the old ktm building going to be demolish.

what if the govt wanted to preserved this building, how much govt need to pay to the owner.
or shud govt take over this building and give amount of compensation to the owner.i dont think the owner opted for compensation...

it is more profit to sell the land for commercial development.

its all about $$$.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cullen View Post
err...saloma bistro is a completely new building...if not mistaken.

i put blame on may parties. why? simply unfair just to blame government on this. even when we say 'government', who are they? the DBKL? the ministry? or the barisan?

in this case;

the owner
1. have a total ownership of the property. 100%. they have fully right on their land.
2. fail to see the historical value of the building.
3. fail to regard the building as their family's heritage.
4. desperate to get money might be.

the new owner
1. unimaginative. fail to utilise the building into something profitable. boutique hotel for example.
2. stupid. fail to associate the building into the new structure. refer W Hotel project in BKK.
3. only think money come from highrise.

the ministry/DBKL
1. doesn't have clear guildeline on the definition of 'heritage' building.
2. doesn't have the vision on heritage conservation program throughout KL. they only think heritage buildings only exist in melaka and georgetown.

the rakyat as general
1. having mentality of 'old is ugly' and 'new is modern and progress'
2. ....aiseh, tak macam european lah how we see architecture. european put old building in respect. interesting that peoples in Beirut (not european anyway) rebuilt their properties after war damage in its previous facade. in other word, they rebuilt it. not replaced with glassy unimaginative new monster.

...in fact, takkanlah government nak purchase that house sampai beratus-ratus juta? is it worth for government to spend wang rakyat to buy the house while they can better spend the money for preserving Kampung Baru, the living heritage.

orang lain buat masalah, takkan government all the time kena wash their ass?


You all still trying to be ignorant when facts are presented to you all. Please read the earlier posts lah. It had been debated before.

First of all, like I said earlier (many many times), it is VERY EXPENSIVE to maintain an old building like Bok House. Most heritage houses are either bought by the govt or are owned by some corporation.

Saloma (or should I say MATIC), is a good example of a govt buy-out. It is previously a mansion owned by a Chinese tycoon. It is now a govt property after being bought over just right after Merdeka. Behind this historical building is the famed Dewan Tunku Abdul Rahman and the newer building adjoining is is the Saloma Theatre.

Usually the owners (esp families or trust funds) wouldn't be able to support and maintain such an old structure. It is not that they are greedy. If you all noticed, the same year Bok House was demolished, the govt wanted to buy over Coliseum Theatre and wanted to convert it into some sort of a cultural museum or something. You see how the govt got their priorities wrong by wanting to buy a living heritage instead of Bok House. Coliseum is a money-generator for its owner and it could and have been self-sustaining for the past 80 years or so. On the other hand, The Bok House couldn't be rented out to have it sustainable to be preserved after Le Coq D'Or closed down. Coincidently, both Bok House and the Coliseum are built by Chua Cheng Bok. So why the wrong priority here? Govt practising selective buying and preservation?

You all should see and read how the Little-Red-Dot most Malaysians hated so much did to preserved its heritage buildings. Most of not all owners are regulated and are 'compensated' for owning a historical building.

Putting the blame on the new owner is silliness at its peak. The building are demolished before it is even sold. Ignorant or just plain being stupid? You choose lah.......

Blaming the public is even worst. As far as I know, the public in general opposed to the demolition of the Bok House.

And not blaming the govt is also silly as it is proven all over the world that only very rich individuals, corporations and govt have the clout and moolah to save such structures.

Frankly speaking, we all do not care which govt dept should be blamed. The govt depts should all work in unison. It is the govt's job and initiative to buy over heritage property at 'special' prices and yes, all heritage properties are expensive and should be bought instead of the billions being spent on buying private jets and stuffs. Preserving Kg. Baru is out of topic so pls do not hijack this topic.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 09:25 PM   #133
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i blamed the owner(the previous one) who destroyed the building..and for the incompetent of the government to quickly intervened to saved(acquired) the building

..by selling the mansion to another party AFTER having destroyed the building which means they were greedy for development...correct me if i'm wrong but if they were to sell it(building intact)...to the government, they might not get much as the building would have been gazetted as a heritage building....(what are the heritage laws and such..anyone care to elaborate..)the government would probably had persuade the previous owner to accept a lesser amount

if it were an empty plot of land...they can sell to another party probably for a bigger amount...and the government can't do anything about it..

i never said anything about the new owner...
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Old February 5th, 2010, 09:52 PM   #134
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Badan Warisan Malaysia had petitioned the Bok House in Jalan Ampang as a national heritage site in April.

The structure was torn down by the Kuala Lumpur City Hall (DBKL) on Sunday. Chua’s family, who own the property, had ordered the demolition.

“The main factor we have to consider is the safety and soundness of the structure. Major parts of the Bok House have been subject to severe deterioration. Rehabilitation costs would have been severe,” said the minister.
yes, the government carry some responsibilities and must be blamed too. but to defend (bermati-matian) the owner who order the demolition is also ignorant.

in fact, i've got an info that the Jabatan Warisan tried to negotiate with the owner about Bok House but fail for the reason i don't know.

so, i was wrong for blaming new owner as i thought they are the one who ordered the demolishment. pardon me.
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Old February 6th, 2010, 07:19 AM   #135
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yes, the government carry some responsibilities and must be blamed too. but to defend (bermati-matian) the owner who order the demolition is also ignorant.

in fact, i've got an info that the Jabatan Warisan tried to negotiate with the owner about Bok House but fail for the reason i don't know.

so, i was wrong for blaming new owner as i thought they are the one who ordered the demolishment. pardon me.

Please check your facts first before you said I am ignorant for defending the original owner.

First of all, it is the owner's prerogative to keep the building or not. Afterall, they have kept the building for more than 80 years despite land prices sky-rocketing around the property. Common sense would tell ya that the family couldn't maintain such an elaborate building for perpetuity. So for so many donkey years, what is the govt doing?

Dun just said "I've got an info from blah blah". Hello......Badan Warisan is powerless to do anything with the owner. In fact they have NEVER blamed the owner. So who are we to do so? Badan Warisan tried to get the govt to save the building which they should so do you think the govt is at fault now or are you still oblivious to obvious facts?
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Old February 6th, 2010, 07:28 AM   #136
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i blamed the owner(the previous one) who destroyed the building..and for the incompetent of the government to quickly intervened to saved(acquired) the building

..by selling the mansion to another party AFTER having destroyed the building which means they were greedy for development...correct me if i'm wrong but if they were to sell it(building intact)...to the government, they might not get much as the building would have been gazetted as a heritage building....(what are the heritage laws and such..anyone care to elaborate..)the government would probably had persuade the previous owner to accept a lesser amount

if it were an empty plot of land...they can sell to another party probably for a bigger amount...and the government can't do anything about it..

i never said anything about the new owner...

You are partially right bout the owner wanted to sell the building intact with the land or an empty piece land which could worth a lot more.

From my knowledge, the building upkeep is high and there are laws which regulate the upkeep and maintenance of buildings by DBKL. So to create a win-win situation, the owners decided to demolished the building. They did not do so hastily, still got time for the various govt depts to ding-dong but see what happened?

Under any Heritage Act all across the world, the owners usually have not much benefit like you've said but once gazetted, they can't touch the building. So it is to the whim and fancy of the govt to save the building whether it is for a cheap price to buy over or not. This is not a win-win situation and the owner stand to lose a lot. The govt still have the final say. But why are they not lifting a finger?

Yes....the govt could do lots and the ball is in their court to save the building. But they chooses not to. Lastly I did not say you said anything bout the new owner......it was Cullen and I replied you both together so read my post carefully.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 03:56 PM   #137
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If recall correctly they demolished it over a long CNY weekend holiday!!I wonder what next?May be Lock Yews mansion near medan tuanku???
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #138
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If recall correctly they demolished it over a long CNY weekend holiday!!I wonder what next?May be Lock Yews mansion near medan tuanku???

The Loke Mansion is safe for the moment. A law firm spent millions refurbishing it after taking a long lease for the property. Too bad the property now is no longer under the Loke Estate. My granduncle and uncle used to be their trustee.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:59 AM   #139
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Thats trully good news i wonder why the same never happen with the bok house back then?
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Old February 10th, 2010, 07:02 PM   #140
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Thats trully good news i wonder why the same never happen with the bok house back then?
The fate of the Bok House is that it sits on a more precious land compared to that of Loke Mansion.
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