Montgomery County Development News

[sovman]

Originally Posted by diplomat74

http://s0.2mdn.net/1534812/upsStore3...aily30.html%23

This is something that really annoys me. All those "scale it back" people keep acting as if JHU is some type of evil empire trying to take over MoCo. They say that Belward Farm is going to some massive over-sized city of steel and glass and that is the exact opposite of the illustration of what the actual campus will look like. The actual belward farm will look like more like a historic college campus something that I think it would be a great addition to the make up of MoCo rather then a sprawled out office park surrounded with parking lots. Also as I said before would people rather deal with traffic going south on I-270 and the beltway into Virginia or have the high quality jobs in their own backyards for them (in addition to the tax revenue revenue that is direly needed) for future generations?

Well part of the problem is that JHU didn't come out with any pictures or renderings (or anything else really) of their plan until a few weeks ago. So last summer through the winter everybody was concerned because they had no idea what was going to be built. I don't think Johns Hopkins has done a very good job of helping the situation because they kept their plans hidden for so long. They should have come out a long time ago, when the argument first started, and said "Hey, we're going to make this look like UMD's College Park campus, not Tysons" but they didn't.

[diplomat74]

Originally Posted by sovman

Well part of the problem is that JHU didn't come out with any pictures or renderings (or anything else really) of their plan until a few weeks ago. So last summer through the winter everybody was concerned because they had no idea what was going to be built. I don't think Johns Hopkins has done a very good job of helping the situation because they kept their plans hidden for so long. They should have come out a long time ago, when the argument first started, and said "Hey, we're going to make this look like UMD's College Park campus, not Tysons" but they didn't.

Yeh that was a huge mistake on JHU's part, they could have saved themselves alot of headache. If they would have just had these illustrations and more like them from the beginning, that would have been the smartest route. Also a long list of benefits to the neighborhoods that this development would bring instead just one huge jobs number, that would have been the best way to deal with it.

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by sovman

Redeveloping those areas would be a great idea.
There isn't really any other open land though.

BS

Originally Posted by sovman

The open areas along 29 are owned by Parks (the stream valleys) and much of the open land north of Burtonsville is owned by Parks or WSSC as a buffer for the reservoir.

That is a Great Excuse used by anti-Growth Extremist Groups so that there would be an excuse to not push for more MASS Office Density and Upscale Retail in Eastern Montgomery County......

They don't need All of that Vacant Land North/East/West of Burtonsville to "use as a Buffer" for the Reservoir....

Originally Posted by sovman

There's some open land between old 29 and the new 29 in Burtonsville though and it'd be nice to see something done with that. The only other big open area would be the patch between Briggs Chaney and Fairland Rd but that's all owned by SHA and is currently being built into the ICC 29 interchange.

There is alot of Open Space available between the ICC and Briggs Chaney Road especially along the Briggs Chaney Roads Corridor between US Highway 29 and MD Highway 650 and also there is a lot of Open Land Space within the US Highway 29, Briggs Chaney Road, MD Highway 198, and MD Highway 650 Box Radius....

There is Open Space South of the Future ICC between Fairland Road and White Oak that can be used for Future Development.

And you just happen to Ignore my reference to the WesTech area........

Originally Posted by sovman

*sigh* It IS the economy.

And it was the "Economy Failure" in the Late 1980's, 1990's, and Early 2000's......

[QUOTE=sovman;54177765]If no demand exists, developers aren't going to invest tens of millions (or in the case of Konterra, hundreds of millions - perhaps billions) of dollars in a project that nobody wants.

BS again........

Originally Posted by sovman

They probably won't even be able to get financing for it (which has been a major problem for Greenbelt Station).

That is not why the Greenbelt Station Project Stalled.....

Originally Posted by sovman

And you're right - when there was high demand in the 1990s and early 2000s we didn't see Konterra grow. That's because Konterra hadn't even been proposed yet!

And if you really believe that crap then I will not be surprised if you never resided or paid taxes in Prince Georges County or any part of the state of Maryland.......

Originally Posted by sovman

If the developer had started the ball rolling a decade earlier, then we'd probably see Konterra today, just like we see King Farm in Rockville.

The Land owner has been talking about Developing that area since the 1980's and they were hoping that the ICC will get completed through their property....

Originally Posted by sovman

Well, the groups that oppose the plan (which vary widely) don't all outright oppose it. Most simply don't like the scale of the project and want it reduced by a third or so. I think many are concerned about traffic because the plan will happen with or without the CCT, and even if this plan is approved, that doesn't mean the CCT will be a sure thing. It has to go through its own approval process and then go through the long and difficult path of getting federal funding... so even if it is approved at the county level, it may not get funding. So then we end up with a gigantic jobs center and no mass transit, just a lot of traffic. People look at Tysons and see the traffic mess that they have and are afraid of that kind of project being built here.

Buses are considered Mass Transit and the main reason they don't want any parts of Montgomery or PG County to look any similar to Tysons Corner, Reston, or Dulles/Sterling area is because they don't want to lose the Maryland Commuters that make the long trek to Virginia everyday which help's Virginia's Business and Economy Wealth.......

Originally Posted by sovman

And the whole project is a dramatic shift from what we have right now.
Right now the people on Mission Dr look out of their back yards and see rolling hills of Belward Farm with a quaint old farm house in the middle. Under this plan that'll all go away, and instead of seeing a rural backdrop, they'll see office buildings. They're understandably very concerned about that. I think simply calling everybody "NIMBY's" isn't doing the situation justice. They're homeowners, they're taxpayers, and they're very honestly concerned with their quality of life and their community undergoing a dramatic shift. I can totally see where they're coming from, even though I don't agree with them.

I have no sympathy for them because they knew that one day that area was going to be developed and I would not be suprised if they were paid by the anti-growth extremist to act the characters of a angry trax paying home owners not wanting Office and Reail Development in their Backyards thats if they are real "Belward Farms" Homeowners because it is very hard to prove if these so-called homeowner truly own property in that area.........

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by Dank City

K, you answer first.

No, you answer my question first in which that will help me define a good answer for your question......

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

BS

That is a Great Excuse used by anti-Growth Extremist Groups so that there would be an excuse to not push for more MASS Office Density and Upscale Retail in Eastern Montgomery County......

They don't need All of that Vacant Land North/East/West of Burtonsville to "use as a Buffer" for the Reservoir....

It's called, LOOK AT A MAP. There is very little unbuilt land along 29. And the land that isn't built is almost entirely owned by the County, State or WSSC. How is stating that fact somehow an excuse not to build there? Plenty of land can be redeveloped - as you yourself conceded, the shopping centers are good examples of where that can happen. And why would you want to get rid of Rocky Gorge's buffers? The forests surrounding it help keep the reservoir clean... and in case you didn't know, that's where a significant portion of our drinking water comes from... Maybe you like to drink dirty water, but I don't.

There is alot of Open Space available between the ICC and Briggs Chaney Road especially along the Briggs Chaney Roads Corridor between US Highway 29 and MD Highway 650 and also there is a lot of Open Land Space within the US Highway 29, Briggs Chaney Road, MD Highway 198, and MD Highway 650 Box Radius....

There is Open Space South of the Future ICC between Fairland Road and White Oak that can be used for Future Development.

Again, all the land you're probably referring to is parkland.

And you just happen to Ignore my reference to the WesTech area........

Huh? Of course, if they want to redevelop those office parks then that's fine. Why do you seem to think I'm saying NO to all development? I have said repeatedly that building in existing developed areas is perfectly fine! That includes the office parks, shopping centers and car dealerships in that area!And if they find a few patches of vacant land, then that's super de duper! But they're not *going* to find much vacant land because it's all owned by various government agencies! I don't get why you keep on trying to interpret my words as "extremist communist" or whatever nonsense.

And it was the "Economy Failure" in the Late 1980's, 1990's, and Early 2000's......

Uh, what?

BS again........

Do you know what "supply and demand" is? Have you ever taken a basic economics course? Have you finished college or high school? It certainly doesn't appear so. The economic downturn is responsible for the lag in development across the whole country... (don't even bother going on about "But It Hasnt Stopped The MASS DEVELOPMENT in Fairfax In THe Past Two Years" because believe it or not, there hasn't *been* any mass development there in the past two years that wasn't already started before the recession began)

That is not why the Greenbelt Station Project Stalled.....

Their inability to land a good financial backing and tenants has contributed greatly to the project's problems. Lawsuits and such have too, as the whole project was one big bungled mess.

And if you really believe that crap then I will not be surprised if you never resided or paid taxes in Prince Georges County or any part of the state of Maryland.......

Excuse me?

The Land owner has been talking about Developing that area since the 1980's and they were hoping that the ICC will get completed through their property....

They've been talking about it, perhaps, but they haven't actually DONE anything until the past ten years. And that's the exact point I was saying. If they had done all this planning phase during the 90s and started in 2000 we'd have a big portion of Konterra done by now.

Buses are considered Mass Transit and the main reason they don't want any parts of Montgomery or PG County to look any similar to Tysons Corner, Reston, or Dulles/Sterling area is because they don't want to lose the Maryland Commuters that make the long trek to Virginia everyday which help's Virginia's Business and Economy Wealth.......

Uh, what? (again)

I have no sympathy for them because they knew that one day that area was going to be developed and I would not be suprised if they were paid by the anti-growth extremist to act the characters of a angry trax paying home owners not wanting Office and Reail Development in their Backyards thats if they are real "Belward Farms" Homeowners because it is very hard to prove if these so-called homeowner truly own property in that area.........

Good lord, you see everybody that disagrees with you as members of some vast conspiracy, don't you? I'd suggest you seek psychiatric help, as I'm sure there's medicines out there that can help you out with that.

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

No, you answer my question first in which that will help me define a good answer for your question......

He asked you first.

[Dank City]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

No, you answer my question first in which that will help me define a good answer for your question......

In reference to PG divinely "deserving" development: In a free and perfectly efficient economy supply and demand will always work to meet eachother. While no economy is perfectly efficient or free, the difference in freedom between PG County and Fairfax County is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty negligible. There is very little difference between the impact fees in the two jurisdictions. The bottom line is developers and buyers have less demand for PG because of relatively weak schools, fewer retail options, higher crime, worse demographics and fewer job opportunities. Infrastructure disparities play into all this, but mostly PG is in the unlucky position of being the proximate local for SE/NE DC's poverty and crime overflow. Fairfax has a river to slow crime spilling over, which PG doesn't have. Not to mention the fact that PG's overall poverty breeds increased corruption in a positive feedback loop, further hampering development in the county.

[Dank City]

Check this out: http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2010/03/ca...s-eternal.html
PG County approved it but the market doesn't support it, even though it's on a Metro Station and in between two highways (Beltway+Suitland Parkway).

[sovman]

Originally Posted by Dank City

Check this out: http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2010/03/ca...s-eternal.html
PG County approved it but the market doesn't support it, even though it's on a Metro Station and in between two highways (Beltway+Suitland Parkway).

Ah yeah, Camp Springs. It's in a pretty great location. It's in the lot directly north of the Branch Ave Metro station and the main road (Capital Gateway Dr) loops around it (it's all pretty plain to see on Google maps or Google Earth or whatever). Other developments directly across the street - townhomes and apartments - have been finished and are now occupied. The developer for Camp Springs just couldn't manage to get things started yet.

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by sovman

It's called, LOOK AT A MAP. There is very little unbuilt land along 29. And the land that isn't built is almost entirely owned by the County, State or WSSC. How is stating that fact somehow an excuse not to build there? Plenty of land can be redeveloped - as you yourself conceded, the shopping centers are good examples of where that can happen. And why would you want to get rid of Rocky Gorge's buffers? The forests surrounding it help keep the reservoir clean... and in case you didn't know, that's where a significant portion of our drinking water comes from... Maybe you like to drink dirty water, but I don't.



Again, all the land you're probably referring to is parkland.


Huh? Of course, if they want to redevelop those office parks then that's fine. Why do you seem to think I'm saying NO to all development? I have said repeatedly that building in existing developed areas is perfectly fine! That includes the office parks, shopping centers and car dealerships in that area!And if they find a few patches of vacant land, then that's super de duper! But they're not *going* to find much vacant land because it's all owned by various government agencies! I don't get why you keep on trying to interpret my words as "extremist communist" or whatever nonsense.



Uh, what?


Do you know what "supply and demand" is? Have you ever taken a basic economics course? Have you finished college or high school? It certainly doesn't appear so. The economic downturn is responsible for the lag in development across the whole country... (don't even bother going on about "But It Hasnt Stopped The MASS DEVELOPMENT in Fairfax In THe Past Two Years" because believe it or not, there hasn't *been* any mass development there in the past two years that wasn't already started before the recession began)


Their inability to land a good financial backing and tenants has contributed greatly to the project's problems. Lawsuits and such have too, as the whole project was one big bungled mess.


Excuse me?


They've been talking about it, perhaps, but they haven't actually DONE anything until the past ten years. And that's the exact point I was saying. If they had done all this planning phase during the 90s and started in 2000 we'd have a big portion of Konterra done by now.


Uh, what? (again)


Good lord, you see everybody that disagrees with you as members of some vast conspiracy, don't you? I'd suggest you seek psychiatric help, as I'm sure there's medicines out there that can help you out with that.

Dude you just don't support Modernize MASS Development in Suburban Maryland......

Thats the way your statements and denial is leading towards.......

There is plenty of Available land in Eastern Montgomery County and Northern PG County to develop it to look similar to the Dulles(Tysons Corner to Reston to Sterling) Corridor.....

I have no issues with redevelopment but you definitely don't support developing the Majority of Suburban Maryland like Northern Virginia which leans you more towards being anti-Growth with very few Exceptions(a la so-called "Smart Growth) and with that attitude it will not make Suburban Maryland more Successful like Business Friendly Northern Virginia..........

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...013002020.html

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

Dude you just don't support Modernize MASS Development in Suburban Maryland......

Thats the way your statements and denial is leading towards.......

There is plenty of Available land in Eastern Montgomery County and Northern PG County to develop it to look similar to the Dulles(Tysons Corner to Reston to Sterling) Corridor.....

I have no issues with redevelopment but you definitely don't support developing the Majority of Suburban Maryland like Northern Virginia which leans you more towards being anti-Growth with very few Exceptions(a la so-called "Smart Growth) and with that attitude it will not make Suburban Maryland more Successful like Business Friendly Northern Virginia..........

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...013002020.html

You have much to learn
When pressed on the finer points of what you think is "fact" you end up being totally unable to back yourself up and simply resort back to the same old "MASS Development" phrase. Oh well.

[sovman]

Anyways, back to development news.

Ryland Homes buys in to Crown Farm project
Crown Farm's going another step further. Looks like they're ready to break ground in a few months.

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by Dank City

In reference to PG divinely "deserving" development: In a free and perfectly efficient economy supply and demand will always work to meet eachother. While no economy is perfectly efficient or free, the difference in freedom between PG County and Fairfax County is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty negligible. There is very little difference between the impact fees in the two jurisdictions. The bottom line is developers and buyers have less demand for PG because of relatively weak schools, fewer retail options, higher crime, worse demographics and fewer job opportunities. Infrastructure disparities play into all this, but mostly PG is in the unlucky position of being the proximate local for SE/NE DC's poverty and crime overflow. Fairfax has a river to slow crime spilling over, which PG doesn't have. Not to mention the fact that PG's overall poverty breeds increased corruption in a positive feedback loop, further hampering development in the county.

So in other words it is racism that plays a partial factor in the reason why PG County is not as Highly Developed like Northern Virginia.......

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by sovman

Anyways, back to development news.

Ryland Homes buys in to Crown Farm project
Crown Farm's going another step further. Looks like they're ready to break ground in a few months.

No brand new Class A Offices and Upscale Retail in their pipeline......

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

No brand new Class A Offices and Upscale Retail in their pipeline......

You complain about everything, don't you?
For retail, walk across the street (north) to the Washingtonian Center. For Class A office walk across the street (south and east) to the new developments in Gaithersburg West, such as the National Cancer Institute's 575,000 sq ft expansion set to start this fall.

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by Dank City

Check this out: http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2010/03/ca...s-eternal.html
PG County approved it but the market doesn't support it, even though it's on a Metro Station and in between two highways (Beltway+Suitland Parkway).

Soo much for supporting Development near Mass Transit theory......

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by sovman

You complain about everything, don't you?

Just like how you Complain/Discriminate against Maryland building Dense Office Towers and Upscale Retail in Open areas of Suburban Maryland such as the US 29 Corridor, US 50 Corridor, etc.

Originally Posted by sovman

For retail, walk across the street (north) to the Washingtonian Center. For Class A office walk across the street (south and east) to the new developments in Gaithersburg West, such as the National Cancer Institute's 575,000 sq ft expansion set to start this fall.

Sorry that ain't enough we need more New Office and Upscale Retail Option Growth throughout Suburban Maryland. That is why I hope the "Science Center" Project will have a Solid Ground Breaking and Completion Date......

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

Just like how you Complain/Discriminate against Maryland building Dense Office Towers and Upscale Retail in Open areas of Suburban Maryland such as the US 29 Corridor, US 50 Corridor, etc.

Yadda yadda yadda...

Sorry that ain't enough we need more New Office and Upscale Retail Option Growth throughout Suburban Maryland. That is why I hope the "Science Center" Project will have a Solid Ground Breaking and Completion Date......

Johns Hopkins Belward Campus ("Science City") will have a start date and a completion date once they get permission to build, which will happen some time after the Gaithersburg West master plan is approved.

[sovman]

Originally Posted by uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn

Soo much for supporting Development near Mass Transit theory......

Here again you missed the point entirely (did you even read the article?). That one individual project - Camp Springs - was delayed due to economic reasons, just like any project anywhere in the country (even out in the rural areas) would be delayed. They couldn't get financing. Other projects across the street - also developments near mass transit - that started a few years before them finished on time and are now open. *sigh* You just hear what you want to hear, I think.

[uptn1bx2hrlm5blyn]

Originally Posted by sovman

Yadda yadda yadda...

Originally Posted by sovman

Johns Hopkins Belward Campus ("Science City") will have a start date and a completion date once they get permission to build, which will happen some time after the Gaithersburg West master plan is approved.

And when will they "Approve" this Project..........