Should Alcohol be banned in Bahrain??

[Adel]

النواب يرفضون تعديلات الشورى ولسان حالهم يقول «يا فرحة ما تمت»

«الخمور» غير ممنوعة في البحرين إلى أجلٍ غير مسمى

حظي مجلس الشورى يوم أمس بهجومٍ لدى مناقشة النواب مشروع قانون بشأن منع الخمور، هو الأعنف في تاريخ مجلس النواب، بعد أن رفض النواب توصيات مجلس الشورى بشأن القانون، وهو ما يعني سقوطه نهائياً خلال الفصل التشريعي المنتهي قريباً.

واتهم النواب الشوريين بأنهم لا يعرفون «ألف باء الإسلام»، فيما دعا بعضهم الحكومة لتوجيه أعضاء مجلس الشورى لـ «البصم» على تعديل القانون بما يتلاءم مع الشرع، فيما طالب أحدهم بـ «طز أعينهم»

واستغرق النواب وقتاً طويلاً في جدلهم بشأن قرار مجلس الشورى، نتيجة خطأٍ إملائي ورد في التوصية المرفوعة من الشورى، غير أنهم عادوا مجدداً لتوجيه نيرانهم للشوريين منتقدين ما ذكروا أنه عدم تقيدٍ بالشرع والإسلام.

وفي مداخلته قال رئيس لجنة الشئون الخارجية النائب عادل المعاودة، إن النواب كانوا يأملون أن يتفق الشوريون معهم على كلمةٍ واحدة، يختمون بها الفصل التشريعي على أبدع ما يكون، مبدياً أسفه بقوله «ولكن يا فرحة ما تمت».

وأضاف أن مجلس النواب اتفق جميعه على أن ما ذهب إليه مجلس الشورى هو غير شرعي وغير دستوري، ومرفوض جملةً وتفصيلاً، وقد كان التشريع الموضوع أمامهم فرصة ذهبية للحكومة ولهم أن يثبتوا الجدية في تنظيف هذا البلد الطاهر.

من جهته، اعتبر نائب رئيس اللجنة عبدالحسين المتغوي ما ذهب إليه الشورى تحايلاً على القانون، ومحاولة لإفراغه من محتواه، مشيراً إلى أن البلد بلاد مسلمة، ولا يجوز مخالفة الشرع فيها.

من جانبه، قال النائب إبراهيم بوصندل إن الله تعالى فصل في هذه القضية وحرّم الخمر، وفتوى المجلس الأعلى الإسلامي بهذا الشأن واضحة، وهي تحريم الخمر، إلا عن غير المسلمين شريطة أن يكون ذلك في أماكنهم الخاصة.

من جهته هاجم النائب حمد المهندي مجلس الشورى، ذاكراً أنهم قالوا عن النواب في جلستهم يوم الاثنين الماضي كلاماً لاذعاً، وأن المجلس تحول إلى مجلس إفتاء، مؤكداً أن الشرع يخالف ما ذهب إليه الشوريون.

وفي هجومٍ عنيف اتهم النائب خليل المرزوق أعضاء مجلس الشورى بأنهم لا يعرفون «ألف باء الإسلام»، متسائلاً هل يقوم مجلس الشورى حالياً بدور مجالس الإفتاء؟

وفي انتقادٍ لاذعٍ آخر، دعا النائب محمد خالد لـ «طز عيون» الشورى، بمناشدته جلالة الملك، بإصدار القانون المذكور كمرسوم بقانون خلال الإجازة البرلمانية، موجهاً تحيته إلى ثلاثة شوريين هم: محمد الحلواجي، فؤاد الحاجي، عبدالرحمن عبدالسلام.

وفي مداخلةٍ لا تقل سخونة قال النائب جواد فيروز إنه يطلب من الحكومة أن تجعل الشوريين يبصمون على تعديل ما قدموه، لتحقيق رغبة جلالة الملك، بحسب قوله.

يشار إلى أن مجلس الشورى قبل يومين (الاثنين الماضي) وافق على تقرير لجنة الشئون الخارجية والدفاع والأمن الوطني بشأن مشروع قانون بتعديل بعض أحكام قانون العقوبات الصادر بالمرسوم بقانون رقم 15 لسنة 1976، والذي عدلت بموجبه اللجنة المشروع بقانون بالصيغة التي أقرها مجلس النواب والتي تمنع تداول وشرب الخمور بصورة كاملة ليصبح ممنوعاً على المسلمين لكنه مسموح لغيرهم في الأماكن المخصصة بحسب قرار وزاري سيصدر لاحقاً.

وقد خالف أعضاء مجلس الشورى ما ذهب إليه المجلس الأعلى للشئون الإسلامية في مرئياته بشأن مشروع قانون منع الخمور والتي نصت على أن «القانون واللوائح التنفيذية تضع الضوابط التي تحصر تعاطي المسكرات لغير المسلمين في أماكنهم الخاصة، وعدم إظهارها في أماكن تواجد المسلمين».

[Adel]

Crackdown collapses
By MOHAMMED Al A'ALI , Posted on » Wednesday, May 05, 2010


PARLIAMENT's bid to ban alcohol in Bahrain effectively collapsed last night, in a stalemate with the Shura Council. MPs rejected amendments agreed by the Shura Council on Monday, which would have banned only Muslims from buying and consuming alcohol.

The Shura bill stipulated that non-Muslims would still be able to buy and consume alcohol in "designated areas".

MPs had proposed a total ban and last night stuck to their guns, which means that the bill must go back to Shura for reconsideration.

But it is likely to run out of time since yesterday's session was the last of the current parliament's four-year term and next week will be the final meeting for the current Shura Council.

Each will be dissolved until a new parliament is elected and the new Shura Council is appointed, later in the year.

Parliament's foreign affairs, defence and national security committee deemed Shura's amendments a loophole that would allow the continuation of alcohol buying and consumption for Muslims.

It said that this was in view of the Constitution banning differentiating between people according to their faith, religion or belief.

Committee chairman Shaikh Adel Al Ma'awda said that the Supreme Islamic Council was clear in its letter to the Shura Council, which he claimed said that non-Muslims could consume alcohol within their own confines.

"This is clear and it means homes, considering that any outlets, even if private, are open to the public and don't differentiate between Muslims and non-Muslims," he said.

"Allowing the government to determine places would mean that it would allow unlimited outlets to open based on the fact that it had the authority to say that it is for non-Muslims."

Parliament voted in favour of a complete alcohol ban in March, but the bill had been changed by the Shura Council, who said it breached the rights of non-Muslims.

Shura's amended version stated that non-Muslims would only be allowed to consume alcohol in designated places approved by the government and in their homes.

Penalties for Muslims caught flouting the alcohol ban, after non-Muslims were excluded, include jail sentences of up to three years and fines of up to BD500, but punishments would be doubled for repeat offenders.

Shaikh Al Ma'awda said that many from all around the world were happy with Bahrain's proposed ban.

"People in forums, Facebook and Twitter were happy with Shura's courageous stand, but when we looked at it, we found that we were being cheated with a way out for the continuation of the sale and consumption of alcohol," he said.

"It is very regretful to have a difference with Shura and I want MPs to insist on their decision for a complete ban."

Parliament legislative and legal affairs committee chairman Khalil Al Marzooq said that the Shura Council was presented with a petition signed by thousands of people demanding a ban on alcohol.

"We were shocked the next day with Shura's decision, which is a breach of the Supreme Islamic Council letter in response to their question. It is clear that non-Muslims can't consume alcohol in public even in private outlets," he said.

"Whether we have a Constitution or not, Islam should be the source of legislation and that's something that Shura seems to have missed out." alaali@gdn.com.bh

[Halawala]

Guys, so the Shura council can propose these laws, but the Parliament (MPs) have to approve it? Are there two legeslative bodies in Bahrain? Who has more rights in this case?

[Island Sloth]

I really think Muslims or non Muslims people should be allowed to do what they want...
La Ikraaha fil Din and let God judge it...

But I think the government owes it to our society to control this rampant mess that the alcohol has created in Bahrain...so lets state the facts, the majority of drinkers are Saudis and other visitors from the Gulf, who are not from a drinking culture to begin with, and it is the PROBLEMS caused by alcoholism (which are amplified when those who drink act irresponsible and do not have an alcohol culture) that are really wat brings up this debate every now and then...
I for one think that the MP's and government (as usual) are focusing on teh wrong things...I would very, very, VERY much like to see VERY STRICT regulations on drinking related offenses...I would like to see sudden checks on drivers with alcohol breathalyzers, policemen instantly grabbing anyone who is drunk and lewd or loud or offensive in public (guy or girl), instant control of alcohol related harrassment including harassment of girls or harassment of neighborhoods through loud honks and music, etc. the diseases that come with alcohol...but instead we all know what they do, they just pass by in land cruisers, 4 fat cops in a car who dont even speak arabic, and watch through the windows...

if the alocoholISM and not alcohol is controlled things would be much better.

I live in Norway and there are some very strict regulations on alcoholism here placed by the government to control such issues. All alcohol for example is controlled by the government with no private dealings nor competition nor advertising. Alcohol sales are restricted to certain outlets with strict operating times. And public drunkenness and alcohol related lewdness or disturbance is not tolerated whatsover with constant police patrol. Driving when drunk lands you in jail. Instantly. I would like to see some of these regulations implemented strictly in Bahrain. That is what we really need. Not a ban on alcohol.

If someone wants to drink responsibly in a business meeting or with his wife while having dinner. Muslim or not. How is that any of my (or the governments) business?

[B-Patriot]

Originally Posted by Halawala

Guys, so the Shura council can propose these laws, but the Parliament (MPs) have to approve it? Are there two legeslative bodies in Bahrain? Who has more rights in this case?

Its a bicameral system.. Two chambers.. or two houses.. Shura (appointed) is upper house... Chamber of deputies is the lower house like the house of commons in the UK...

The powers should not be totally equal.. If we were to follow the British Bicameral parliament for instance, but in Bahrain's case they are..

Legislation proposals usually start with the elected house (chamber of deputies), the goes to Shura to fine-tune and approve... If they ammend it like with the alcohol law, it goes back to the lower house to approve the final ammeded version... Then the king has to ratify it...

But i think in some cases the process can start with the shura.. or even the government can ask the parliament to consider/review a proposal...

So in this case, Shura ammended the 'extreme' blanket ban, so that non-muslims can at least drink.. It went back to the MP's, and they couldn't agree or approve the ammendments..

Thank god..

I hope that explains it...

[TheRedofBahrain]

This alcohol issue is great example of how our system is supposed to work. Our elected MPs are usually strictly religious, and often propose outrageous laws (once I think they proposed separate Doctors for men and women). Its the job of the Shura council to make sure the laws are logical and not too extreme, while still trying to represent the people.
I think in the beginning, the elected MPs proposed a FULL ban on alcohol anywhere in Bahrain. The Shura (correctly) saw this as uneconomical and illogical, and amended it. They sent it back to the Nuwab (elected MPs) and they refused (thankfully).

[gulfexpress]

Originally Posted by ProudArabian

Since when do people learn? if you ban something, people will do it behind covers. Look at saudis for example, so many of them drink and do so many other haram things.

I think the only thing muslim countries should do is not promote haram things like alcohol, we cannot control people, people will always find ways to do haram things.

Thats spot on. Once you ban something, you immediately create a black market for it. Its simple economics, whenever theres demand, there will always be supply, except it'll be at a much steeper price both monetarily and metaphorically. Unfortunately those who will be doing the supplying will be underground mobs, which will cause violence. Same goes to drugs and prostitution.
Perhaps we should be the first arab country to follow the dutch legal framework *cough* *cough* lol

[B-Patriot]

You think our MP's have any understanding of economics or whats good for the economy in general? Even the handful that do, don't give a shit, since the only way they can view or judge this issue is with the word 7ARAM!!

[B-Patriot]

You know.. Not that i have any sympathy for them.. but the MP's were somewhat right to reject the ammendments, cuz the ammendments are a way of cheating the system.. full of loopholes..

"Parliament's foreign affairs, defence and national security committee deemed Shura's amendments a loophole that would allow the continuation of alcohol buying and consumption for Muslims.

It said that this was in view of the Constitution banning differentiating between people according to their faith, religion or belief."

The 'designated areas' selling alcohol are not supposed to differentiate between ppl of different faiths.. Even if they wanted to.. how would they do it?

Which brings me to another thing.. I think most liquor selling stores in Bahrain have a small sign outside saying something like we don't serve muslims (not that they enforce it, obviously)... Isn't that unconstitutional as well..?

Maybe we should push for another motion/proposal in parliament/shura to have that sign removed

[B-Patriot]

[Kuwaiti]

No it shouldnt be banned. I also think the ISPs should unblock all porn sites.

Bahrain's economy is strengthened by these demands. Without them, the country will sink.

[B-Patriot]

Oh please, its not like we depend on tourism or whatever...

We've got a well enough diversified and resilient economy, unlike Kuwait...

We're mainly discussing this ban in relation to the idea that's wrong, silly, and not in keeping with Bahrain's tradition and reputation of tolernance and openness...

[Kuwaiti]

Originally Posted by B-Patriot

Oh please, its not like we depend on tourism or whatever...

We've got a well enough diversified and resilient economy, unlike Kuwait...

We're mainly discussing this ban in relation to the idea that's wrong, silly, and not in keeping with Bahrain's tradition and reputation of tolernance and openness...

Nice. Love the snide attempt to take a jab on Kuwait. Why do internet forumers always think it's a country versus country issue whenever something has been told? Yet you felt you had to bring the 'unlike Kuwait' statement into the sentence. Okay, good job.

Now if this ban has no negative economic impact, then you might as well ban alcohol, because Bahrain is a Muslim country and must adhere to Islamic principles.

If you want openness and tolerance, there are plenty of European countries that preach that. But not in our Gulf...

The only reason to keep alcohol alive in Bahrain is due to its great demands from Qataris, Saudis and Kuwaitis. The minute you guys remove all these tempting aspects from your society, Bahrain will pose no touristic incentive for any of these countries or its peoples.

As for your diversified and resilient economy, as soon as the oil runs out in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and foreign investment becomes absolute tosh, I would like to see the resilience of the Bahraini economy taking its shape.

[Adel]

Kuwaiti, i'm sorry you felt BP was taking a jab at Kuwait. I don't think he meant it as such, read what he wrote again he was just stating the fact that Kuwait depends totally on oil.

You were hinting about Kuwait and Saudi helping Bahrain economically and you are right, but bear in mind that they are not doing that out of the kindness of their heart but because it's important for their security. Don't ask me to elaborate cos I don't want to go into politics.

The point you stated that no one will come to Bahrain if Alcohol is banned is a big misconception. Kuwaitis love Bahrain and a lot of families come in the holidays and they don't come for a drink they come for several reasons. A bigger percentage of Saudi families (who are the real spenders) also visit Bahrain than the Saudis coming for booze. Believe it or not a lot of Saudi families don't actually come to Bahrain because Alcohol is available not the reverse.

I'm not saying banning Alcohol will not have an effect on the economy, it will have a huge affect. The serious effect will happen if there is a total ban and not a ban on Muslims only. A blanket ban will mean that Dubai will finally be the financial center of the middle east and Qatar may have a chance of attracting some financial business. (I hope nobody comes and says I'm taking a jab at Qatar and Dubai cos I'm not)

Finally Bahrain will have a difficult time if oil runs out from Saudi and Kuwait, but Saudi and Kuwait will have a worse time. If you know Bahrain and Bahrainis you will get what I mean. (Actually come to think of it if oil runs out we are all fucked, Iran will have to brace itself for an Arab invasion again cos it's the only place in the Gulf that still has fresh water to drink and fish and sheep to eat and land suitable for cultivation. We Arabs have ruined everything we had).

[B-Patriot]

Originally Posted by Kuwaiti

Now if this ban has no negative economic impact, then you might as well ban alcohol, because Bahrain is a Muslim country and must adhere to Islamic principles.

If you want openness and tolerance, there are plenty of European countries that preach that. But not in our Gulf...

I dont accept these statements that u make so simply, as if its so black and white..

Bahrain is a country of Muslims (seeing as they are the vast majority of the local population), yes.. You can even go as far as calling it a muslim country, the constitution sure does, but that doesn't mean its an Islamic country or some sort of theorcracy.. Europe for a long time was christian, and they had to debate very seriously whether to still mention Europe's christian roots in the european constitution and lisbon accord, but they finally dropped it i believe.. And i pray for the day we will get there, and turn secular..

We're waiting on an Attaturk of Bahrain, before waiting on the mahdi.. lol

I could still go on and on, but i'll just leave it at that..