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Old July 13th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #1
Jasonzed
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Port Lands Sports Centre (85 & 95 Commissioners St) | Proposed | 8 st | 17 200 sq m / 185 000 sq ft | Lower Don Lands / Port Lands

I didn't see a thread for this one...they are certainly moving in the right direction in terms of it being stacked...this is extremely unique as far as ice rinks go...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...ach-other?bn=1


Here is an architect's rendering of the proposed four-pad ice rink in the Portlands, to be unveiled at a public meeting on Tuesday. This stacked facility is the latest idea after a huge uproar from architects


Published On Mon Jul 12 2010
Vanessa Lu
Staff Reporter
It would be the first of its kind in Canada and a possible solution to the sports complex arena problem in the Lower Donlands.

An all-glass, four-arena facility with the ice pads stacked on top of each other.

It looks more like an office building than an ice rink and according to confidential documents obtained by the Star, this latest design for the Portlands sports complex, long planned on the waterfront, would be eight storeys high. The first rink would be halfway below ground, but the other three would be surrounded by glass with a view of the water. Some underground parking would be available, with additional spots on nearby land during big tournaments.

The proposal comes after a huge uproar this year when prominent architect Ken Greenberg resigned from a project to integrate the $34 million arena with development plans for the Lower Donlands, Greenberg charged that the sports complex violated the vision for the neighbourhood.

Architects, designers and engineers on the design review panel also threatened to resign en masse over the original arena proposal that included 440 above-ground parking spaces and four arenas all at ground level.

The city wants to build the facility to help alleviate the desperate shortage of ice time in Toronto. If ready in time the facility could also be used for the 2015 Pan Am games.

This latest proposal — which shrinks the original footprint in half by building up and not out — will be unveiled at a public meeting on Tuesday night. The final price tag remains unspecified, but is expected to cost significantly more than the original plan.

The design by Bob Goyeche of RDH Architects Inc. was shown to about 50 people last week, including local residents and sports groups, and reportedly drew a good response. The design review panel, which is charged with approving all designs on the waterfront, meets on Wednesday to discuss this option.

If the panel signs off, then the council’s executive committee and city council would consider the proposal in August — the final meeting before the October municipal election.

“I’m cautiously optimistic,” said Karen Pitre, chair of the Toronto Sports Council. “It’s very ambitious. Nobody has built a four-stack arena before.”

Her concern is the technical challenges of placing rinks one on top of another — including elevator dependency during tournaments for players and equipment.

“Would you need four Zambonis?” Pitre wondered, or could the arena get by with two ice surfacing machines, moving them up and down as needed. During a sledge hockey tourney for wheelchair users, elevator access would be imperative.

City officials travelled to Connecticut to see a two-pad stacked arena though it is not surrounded by glass.

Councillor Paula Fletcher, who represents the area, said she likes the latest option — saying she could not have supported the original big box plan.

While no price tag is available, it is certain to cost significantly more, Fletcher said, adding the cost is worth it to ensure a contemporary, urban building on the site at Don Roadway and Commissioners St.

“It would be a unique building,” she said, arguing it might speed up other development in the area that includes mixed use retail, commercial and housing. “There may be a multiplier effect.”

Some of the pads, could be left dry at times and used for other sports like basketball, soccer or lacrosse. The city could also make money by holding large tournaments, something it cannot do now.

Waterfront Toronto president and CEO John Campbell said no one is opposed to having an arena in the Portlands, but designers want to ensure there is significant streetscape activity down there.

“The issue is let’s make sure it fits with the long-term plans for the area,” said Campbell. “Once it goes in, it will be there forever.”
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Old July 14th, 2010, 12:59 AM   #2
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Probably a good place for it. I put the article in the Waterfront section, but it should have a thread of its own!
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Old July 14th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #3
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Hume: New rink proposal makes all the right moves

Yes indeed. It's going to get a lot of attention in the next couple of years...
I wound like to see something like this in MCC, it would be a smart/perfect fit.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...ght-moves?bn=1

Published On Tue Jul 13 2010
By Christopher Hume Urban Issues, Architecture

Conventional wisdom has it that Canadians only care about what happens on the ice, not the ice itself. Then along came the Lower Port Lands and all that changed.

In case you’ve suppressed that memory, the ice chips hit the fan several months ago when respected planner Ken Greenberg quit the design team responsible for integrating a four-rink ice skating complex to be situated in what’s now largely empty land south of the mouth of the Don. The scheme that upset Greenberg was a massive suburban-style facility with surface parking for more than 400 cars. It would have been in the middle of what is slated to become a mixed-use neighbourhood in the old Port Lands.

Now the ice pad has been reinvented as an ice box. The reworked proposal still has four rinks, but this time, they’re stacked one atop the other in a glass-clad structure.

The previous scheme flew in the face of years of work by some of the world’s most respected architects, landscape architects and planners. Chosen through an international competition, the design team envisioned the Lower Port Lands as a waterfront community where upwards of 10,000 people will live, work and play. Based on transit, the idea was that no resident would be more than five minutes from a streetcar stop.

But faced with pressure from the hockey lobby, especially the girls’ hockey lobby, the city threw out eons of planning and decided to use the waterfront — yet again — as a dumping ground. The irony was that the middle-class types who wanted the complex did so only as long as it wasn’t in their backyard.

For decades, the waterfront has been the place to put things we need but don’t want on the street where we live. That’s why it’s a wasteland. But given half a chance, the revitalization process will change all that. One only need look at what’s unfolding at the foot of Jarvis and Sherbourne streets to see the vast potential of these old industrial lands. Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Commons and the new lake’s edge promenade are among the best things to happen in Toronto, let alone the waterfront, in some time.

The redesigned ice box represents a similarly innovative approach. No, it’s not in its final form yet and undoubtedly will cost more than the $34 million allotted. But the most appropriate way to view it is as an investment, not just in hockey but also in the city’s future. The original scheme would have been badly at odds with the spirit and intention of the Lower Port Lands master plan; the new one takes the larger picture into account.

Furthermore, the ice box would itself be a destination as well as a symbol of a smart city; nothing like it has been built anywhere and interest would be huge across North America.

“I’m surprised and delighted,” says Greenberg. “I think it’s a huge step in the right direction. It has a lot of good features. The next big challenge is to figure out how to make the street level of the building something that contributes to the pedestrian experience. . . and figure out the relationship with the remaining development blocks surrounding it.

“We’re figuring out how to make things more urban. In this case, we’re talking about hockey rinks, but we could be talking about any use. They come in sprawling suburban models and in dense urban versions. It’s not the use that matters, but the design. You could apply this lesson to any number of things.”

Christopher Hume can be reached at [email protected].
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #4
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There's discussion on UT about the logistics of transporting equipment-laden kids/athletes and Zambonis up and down the various rink levels. Also, there's concern about the extent of glazing and how this may affect conditions of the ice. Indoor ice rinks are usually windowless for a reason.

I think there's a lot more we need to know about this proposal before giving it a thumbs up or down. While it should perform well aethetically/architecturally, it must also meet the needs of its users.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:46 PM   #5
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[IMG]http://i31.************/b66hq9.jpg[/IMG]

Final cost of stacked rinks is unknown

[IMG]http://i25.************/32zq8hh.jpg[/IMG]
An artist’s conception of one of the stacked rinks. Rdh architects / 3LHD architects

Kenyon Wallace July 14, 2010 – 6:00 am

A proposal for a dramatic, eight-storey sports complex in the Lower Donlands featuring four stacked ice rinks will go before Waterfront Toronto’s design review panel for approval today, even as planners acknowledge a final price tag for the new facility is unknown.

The design for the all-glass structure, to be located at the corner of Don Roadway and Commissioners Street in the Port Lands, is an attempt to appease panel members following widespread condemnation of an earlier plan that saw the four arenas, along with 440 parking spaces, contained in a sprawling complex at ground level.

Not all are sold on the new plan, however. The city as well as the provincial and federal governments have jointly pledged $34-million for a waterfront sports complex, but construction of a new stacked facility is expected to cost substantially more. No one involved in the project could provide a cost estimate to the National Post yesterday.

“I haven’t seen any costs yet and all for the sake of a $34-million carrot?” said Paul Ainslie, councillor for Scarborough East.
He said he is concerned that the city is rushing headlong into the project without considering flooding risks to the landfilled area, which the Toronto and Region Conservation Authority says would be submerged in the event of a “100-year storm.”

“We’re a world-class city and we’re striving to be the best, but do we really want to be the leader in building a four-pad arena on an area that is completely landfilled?” he said.

The new complex, designed by Toronto-based rdh architects and 3LHD Architects in Zagreb, aims to cut the footprint of the original plan in half by stacking the four rinks on top of each other — a first in Canada. The bottom rink would be moved partially below ground, while the top three would be surrounded by glass, offering western views of Lake Ontario. The design includes large elevators to move teams and equipment, including ice-resurfacing machines, between floors, and room to store snow scraped from the ice inside. The building would feature undergound parking, room for spectators, and a green roof. It would be certified gold under the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design program...

...The new sports complex is just one part of the massive redevelopment of the Lower Donlands, a 125-hectare area between the Parliament Street slip in the west and the Don Roadway in the east that includes the mouth of the Don River.

The original plan for the sprawling at-grade complex was so controversial that high-profile architect Ken Greenberg resigned from the project team in April, charging that the city was squandering valuable waterfront land. But yesterday Mr. Greenberg said the new design was a “huge step in the right direction...

...Mr. Greenberg added that the amount of land taken up by the ground-level plan represented an opportunity cost far greater than any difference in the capital cost of the stacked facility. But he warned that the next challenge will be making the structure fit seamlessly with “lively and active” pedestrian spaces around the building as the area is developed...

...If the design review panel approves the new design, the proposal will move to city council’s executive committee and finally city council proper for a vote in August.

Ms. Fletcher said in the meantime planners would work to address the funding shortfall, including examining potential revenue from renting out the ice for large tournaments.

“If you have something great, people are going to want to come from far and wide to play there,” she said.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[IMG]http://i30.************/fkyy3q.gif[/IMG]

Portlands arena: Two visions, one preference

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...one-preference

Published On Tue Jul 13 2010

Jayme Poisson
Staff Reporter


To stack or not to stack.

That was the question at Tuesday’s public meeting to discuss the latest architectural plans for the Portlands sports complex.

Bob Goyeche of RDH Architects Inc. was on hand to present his two visions of the four-arena facility to local residents, sports organizations and those simply interested in Toronto’s waterfront development.

The first vision was similar to the original plan that pushed prominent architect Ken Greenberg, a member of the design team, to resign: a lowrise complex that, critics say, violates the vision for the neighbourhood.

The second, as previewed in Tuesday’s Star, is more ambitious — and the first of its kind in Canada. This eight-storey option would see all four arenas stacked on top of each other, surrounded by glass with a view of the water...

...Much of the room’s attention Tuesday was focused on the stacked option.

“This could attract people to Toronto. It could be world class,” said Jake Schabas, who loved the concept.

Schabas said the city should be emphasizing design — and didn’t mind the project could have a hefty price tag.

Matt Raizenne, however, had a few concerns.

“The city tends to mismanage a lot of their public assets,” he said. “So if this is a $60 million facility, or however much it’s going to cost, is it going to be mismanaged and is the taxpayer going to be having to pay for everything down the road?”

Councillor Paula Fletcher admitted the price tag for both visions would be larger than the $34 million initially allotted. How much larger, however, remains to be seen.

The plan will go to the city’s Waterfront Design Review Panel on Wednesday.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[IMG]http://i27.************/t03si1.png[/IMG]

New Port Lands plan builds up, not out

[IMG]http://i27.************/2uo1cbc.jpg[/IMG]
The glittering eight-storey arena now proposed for the Port Lands
is sure to please the Waterfront Design Review Panel -- which
threatened to resign en masse over the old "suburban" design --
but what will it cost? RDH Architects


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1639080/

Kelly Grant City Hall Bureau Chief

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published on Tuesday, Jul. 13, 2010 10:23PM EDT
Last updated on Tuesday, Jul. 13, 2010 10:34PM EDT



...The city has already conceded that the much-derided suburban scheme would cost more than the $34-million in federal funds set aside for the project.

But building up is expected to be even more expensive than building out; early drafts of a stacked option for the eight-acre city-owned site at Commissioners Street and the Don Roadway were shelved because of the prohibitive cost.

“It’s a huge concern to me,” said Councillor Paul Ainslie, who sits on the budget committee and the community development and recreation committee, one of several bodies helping steer the project. “I’m thinking back to the huge state of good repair backlog in the parks department and I wonder if this [a stacked arena near the waterfront] is the right use of taxpayers’ money.”

The city hired Deloitte and Touche to analyze how much revenue a four-pad arena could earn from competitive hockey leagues and blockbuster tournaments.

“We’ve got $34-million to start with. I think that’s a good nest egg,” Paula Fletcher, the local councillor, said. “It’s got to go through a whole bunch of hoops even prior to the final costing of it. I’m not focused on that at the moment.”

The new proposal features four NHL-sized ice pads stacked atop each other like pancakes, a Zamboni for each level and three high-speed elevators with raised roofs to accommodate hockey sticks, according to Dan Herljevic, project manager from Toronto’s Rounthwaite Dick and Hadley Architects Inc.

Like its forerunner, the new design is about 185,000 square feet, but its footprint is only one-third the size if you exclude a public plaza. It features the same amenities as the old proposal, including an indoor running track, pro shop, community rooms and, possibly, a small restaurant.

In both designs, the contentious issue of parking remains unresolved.

That business case, along with a price tag for the building, should be ready before the scheme goes to city council for the final meeting of David Miller’s administration in August.

Critics balked at the possibility of as many as 440 surface parking spaces under the old proposal. That figure came from a traffic study that concluded 440 stalls would be needed for tournaments, not daily use. Daily use – and the zoning-required minimum – is 210 stalls, Mr. Herljevic said.

Now both designs include options for 210-spot lots below ground or at ground level.

“We acknowledge there has to be some kind of plan if and when there’s a big tournament,”
Mr. Herljevic said.

When it comes to cost, Mr. (Ken) Greenberg suggested choosing a spectacular, precedent-setting design would help attract extra money to the project.

“I think having a facility like this that would be unique in the world, in many respects would enable them to attract types of operators that they might not be able to attract with a much more utilitarian scheme.”


(I think Greenberg's dreaming in technicolor.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: torontolife.com


Source: cbc.ca
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Old July 17th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #6
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Can it be designed with residential uses above? The condos would pay for some of the building cost.

Looks great--but then I wonder: what about four ground level ice arenas with residential above?
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Old July 18th, 2010, 03:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhanan1 View Post
I think there's a lot more we need to know about this proposal before giving it a thumbs up or down. While it should perform well aethetically/architecturally, it must also meet the needs of its users.
I don't think Ice Quality will be an issue, they can double skin the building, the logistics of fitting in change rooms, bleachers, Zambonie elevators and othe mechanical elements will be the real challenge.

If Bryant Park, The Rockafeller Center, and Central Park can all open thier outdoor rinks early November I think building an all glass stacked rink is doable for the city of Toronto. We should stop asking if we can do it and just say we can do it. The real question I have is why do we need to wait so close to Christmas for the city hall rink to open?



Look at the date












The Glacearium in Sydney has glass on almost all of it's sides.








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Old July 19th, 2010, 06:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
Can it be designed with residential uses above? The condos would pay for some of the building cost.

Looks great--but then I wonder: what about four ground level ice arenas with residential above?
I'd like to see that, too, but Toronto planners seem to feel no one should ever be allowed to build residential on the waterfront again because waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day a few ugly yellow condos got built near the water. We are, apparently, the only city on the planet that has built residential towers on the waterfront, and that is a Bad Thing.

I'd much rather see a "daytime" rendering of the project as opposed to the ethereal glowing ice block of the rather fanciful night-time one.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 09:17 AM   #9
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By AlvinofDiaspar on UT.

Report to come for the August 16, 2010 Executive Committee Meeting:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...file-32899.pdf
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Old August 14th, 2010, 08:31 PM   #10
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That is a great post AndrewJM3D It is interesting comparing the different ice skating environments around the world and now Toronto is going to do something that is unique and innovative.

Here is the link to the report mentioned in the previous post by Elkhanan1. It is very thorough and interesting to read:

(August 9, 2010) Port Lands Sports Centre Project

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...file-32980.pdf

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Old August 19th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #11
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Toronto Star article:

Waterfront arena approved, now we need the cash
August 16, 2010



Paul Moloney


An architect's rendering of the new proposed four-pad ice rink in the waterfront area, which will feature a compact stacked design suitable to an urban neighbourhood.

RDH ARCHITECTS INC.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...erfront-hockey

Though the money hasn’t been found yet, an $88 million hockey arena proposed for the city’s waterfront has received unanimous support in principle from the city’s executive committee.

Led by Mayor David Miller, the committee was solidly in support of building a stacked facility at Commissioners St. and Don Roadway even though only $34 million has been earmarked.

A staff report estimates a $21 million to $25 million bond could be paid off in 30 years, leaving a gap of $29 million to $33 million.

The committee was told that hockey users may be willing to pay a surcharge to help fund construction of the complex, which would offer four NHL-sized ice surfaces, spectator seating, a restaurant, meeting rooms and an indoor track.

“This is a long-term investment,” said Ron Baker, president of the Toronto Leaside Girls Hockey Association. “It should earn a reasonable return for the city and shouldn’t be viewed as just the price tag for a one-off expenditure to be considered on a cost-only basis.”

In voting for approval in principle, the committee wants cost estimates to be further refined in time for next year’s capital budget, which will be set by the new mayor and council after the Oct. 25 elections.

And the city is hoping to talk to the provincial government about funding options to build the facility, which would act as a regional sports complex.

However, concerns were expressed that the arena could take money from other worthy projects, such as a community centre for North Parkdale that has been on the books for 20 years.

“Now it appears the city is considering shoe-horning the portlands project into next year’s capital plan at the possible expense of other projects that have been in the plans for years. This is not fair,” said Doug Bennet, who heads a group advocating for the Wabash community centre.

Councillor Doug Holyday said the city should consider a new location to cut costs, noting that a four-pad rink is being built in Oakville for $38 million and one opened in Oshawa in 2006 for $40 million.

“I don’t understand why we have to do this at this cost,” Holyday said.

Deputy city manager Richard Butts said waterfront construction is more expensive because of the high water table and the stipulated need for excellent design and environmental sustainability.

Butts said the Oshawa project was built on “very inexpensive land, limited requirements for design excellence and in a suburban context. Now, we’re talking about building an iconic facility in a dense urban context.”

In voting for approval in principle, the committee wants to look at adding Olympic-sized ice for speed skaters.

And it wants to see bird-friendly measures so the all-glass structure doesn’t become a death trap for migratory birds.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 02:50 AM   #12
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Hoping this doesn't get axed. We need to invest in innovative endeavors like this to demonstrate to the rest of the world Toronto is a city of the future.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 07:56 PM   #13
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but.....

Quote:
One of Rob Ford’s first big tasks — and tests — as mayor will be handling a capital budget full of projects he has tried to kill.

Among those projects will be the glass-walled $88 million waterfront arena, with four stacked ice pads, approved in principle by council even though only $34 million in funding — from Ottawa, and tied to its waterfront location — has been found.

“We shouldn’t be in the business of building hockey arenas. Why doesn’t the private sector come in and build this?” Ford told the Star in late August, suggesting the project would be in serious trouble if he was elected.

“We have to stop the wasteful spending. The gravy train has to come to an end.”

The glittering, innovative showcase for the portlands was proposed after a ground-level “snowflake” design, estimated to cost $17 million less, was criticized as being too sprawling and uninspiring for the location. With an ice shortage in the city, parents are clamouring for downtown rinks.

As a councillor, Ford for years voted alone or with one or two others to kill projects big and small. How much he bends as mayor, if at all, on past targets should be a strong signal of what the next four years will be like.

During capital budget deliberations last December, the 35 items Ford tried to eliminate from the $2.4 billion list includes the 311 customer service line; funding for new community centres, libraries and zoo exhibits; the Fort York pedestrian bridge; and the St. Lawrence Market North redevelopment.

Outgoing budget chief Shelley Carroll said it was left that the new mayor’s budget committee will start tackling the capital side in January. She noted many of the projects Ford tried to stop in the past are underway and multi-year, so he will have to weigh the benefits of turning off the tap if contracts have been signed, design work done or cash already spent.

“He’ll have to ask himself, ‘By stopping this am I just throwing money in the street because I already spent some money that I won’t get back?’” said Carroll (Ward 33, Don Valley East).

Peter Milczyn, re-elected in Ward 5 (Etobicoke Lakeshore), is a champion of the expanding 311 project. Ford, whom Milczyn endorsed for mayor, has argued the service is a waste of money because councillors are supposed to answer residents’ questions and solve problems.

Milczyn said 311’s future came up “in passing” during his discussion with the mayor-elect and his brother, Doug, councillor-elect for Ward 2 (Etobicoke North).

“I’ll certainly advocate using 311 as a fundamental platform to improve customer service,” Milczyn said, adding the Fords “want customer service to be not simply good, they want it to be excellent.”

During his successful campaign, Ford repeatedly pointed to the ongoing revitalization of Nathan Phillips Square as a symbol of wasteful city spending.

“Why would you go out and spend $45 million renovating Nathan Phillips Square when we’re $3 billion in debt, and have been hit with every tax?” he told U of T students and faculty at a debate in September.

But he told the National Post’s editorial board in late September he has no plans to halt that project, which will require funding from the 2011 and 2012 capital budgets.

Neither Ford nor his transition team responded to a request for comment.

Ford’s capital targets in 2010

Some of the items in Toronto’s 2010 capital budget that then-councillor Rob Ford tried to remove, and the votes by which his motions were defeated.

$1.2 million to buy new equipment for the 311 helpline service, part of projected funding of $12.5 million over a decade. Ford has argued city councillors and their office staff should respond to residents’ calls. Defeated 36-2.

Commercial strip streetscape and façade improvements; murals to discourage graffiti, Fort York Visitor’s Centre; feasibility study of the Toronto Museum Project. Total $15.2 million. Defeated 38-1.

$196.1 million in proposed spending over 10 years to expand community centres and build new ones; $6.5 million of land acquisition and $1.2 million in improvements to the Don Valley Brick Works. Defeated 39-1.

$28.1 million pegged for Civic Improvement Places project to refurbish neglected sites around the city. Defeated 38-2.

A total of $21.9 million for homeless shelter development, green roofs and solar panels in shelters, and streetscape and green wall at 129 Peter St. shelter. Defeated 38-2.

$44.7 million for bike network expansion proposed for 2014-19; $19 million for construction over four years of the North York Centre ring road to alleviate Yonge St. congestion; $8.5 million for the Fort York pedestrian bridge. Defeated 37-3

$4.3 million environmental assessment into removing eastern leg of Gardiner Expressway; $82.8 million of proposed waterfront projects. Defeated 36-4.

Proposed $74.9 million new St. Lawrence Market north building; $67.2 million for new Etobicoke civic centre; $28.2 million to revitalize Nathan Phillips Square and $3.9 million for parkland on Sheppard Ave. W. Defeated 37-3.

$57.6 million for two new libraries and expansion of 13 branches. Defeated 37-5.

Green roofs at Victoria Park and Dufferin subway stations. Defeated 33-7.

$22.5 million for new Toronto Zoo exhibitions. Defeated 35-5.

$251.3 million to expand and build new Green P parking lots over 10 years. Defeated 39-1.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...s-targets?bn=1
__________________
Hindsight certainly would be valuable if we could get it in advance...

"The Fascists of the future will be Anti-Fascists". Winston Churchill

"The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." -Hegel

.....................::::::::::::::::::::::::........................

My July 2012 North American Road trip!
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