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Old August 28th, 2010, 09:14 PM   #2841
Indyfatigable
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Originally Posted by IndyYeah View Post
The mayor needs to step in and keep stepping in about the homeless situation and panhandling.
True, but due to those among us who are automatically predisposed to side against law and order, even if they claim to acknowledge something's needing to be done about it, the city has to tread lightly in order to avoid lawsuits. Some, especially young people, are averse to law enforcement except when the time comes that they feel threatened of course. That's what gave rise to the saying that a conservative is a liberal who got mugged. Appropriately apt advice might be to suggest to the most incorrigible and hard to reason with regarding the necessity of laws and their enforcement, is that next time they find themselves in danger to call for an anarchist. Nyuk nyuk.

I say enforce it by calling it what it is - a public nuisance. That could also apply to anyone sitting on a sidewalk who is able to ambulate on their own. A sidewalk is a thoroughfare for walkers and wheelchairs, not a place for sitting. Otherwise, it'd be called a (wait for it) sidesit.

They're not booing, they're saying Indyfaaaatigable.


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Old August 29th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #2842
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Again, my above statement, is what it is. The Mayor, City Hall and Police need to identify this situation, and have responsiblity for the public and legally take care of this and work to curb this problem. I believe it does not call for some odd statements from anyone to identify what the problem is.
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Last edited by IndyYeah; August 29th, 2010 at 12:27 AM.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 09:25 PM   #2843
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There are more panhandlers in Chicago than there are in Indy, but you don't notice them as much, nor do they seem as threatening. Why? The sidewalks of the Loop are full of people. That's the crux of the issue. If Indy's sidewalks were busy, panhandlers wouldn't seem as big a deal.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 04:39 AM   #2844
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Too bad most people here are allergic to walking.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 07:19 AM   #2845
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16th Street

The Urban Times has an article about a public works project on 16th Street, between Capitol and Central: http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2010...s-and-central/

It's about time something was done about the intersection of 16th & Delaware. I posted a few more thoughts on my blog at: http://idyllicindy.blogspot.com/
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Old August 30th, 2010, 07:26 AM   #2846
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"back" of the Convention Center

Anyone else see this post over on Property Lines about the south side of the Convention Center? I haven't really noticed it, but then again, I don't spend a lot of time in, or on the steps outside of, LOS. I'm not sure whether it's realistic to think that something else will be built between the railroad tracks and South Street that would obscure the view of the Convention Center from LOS. Anyone have any more or better photos than what were shown on the IBJ site?
http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/20...AMS/post/21960
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Old August 30th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #2847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idyllic indy View Post
Anyone else see this post over on Property Lines about the south side of the Convention Center? I haven't really noticed it, but then again, I don't spend a lot of time in, or on the steps outside of, LOS. I'm not sure whether it's realistic to think that something else will be built between the railroad tracks and South Street that would obscure the view of the Convention Center from LOS. Anyone have any more or better photos than what were shown on the IBJ site?
http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/20...AMS/post/21960

I took the photos of the Convention Center. it was with a crappy point & shoot and I wasnt able to string them together. I usually pride myself on good photos. It would be my crappiest photos that get noticed in an article huh?

Anyway, it still sucks pretty bad. you can still get a good idea of what it looks like.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #2848
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Originally Posted by Indyfatigable View Post
I say enforce it by calling it what it is - a public nuisance. That could also apply to anyone sitting on a sidewalk who is able to ambulate on their own. A sidewalk is a thoroughfare for walkers and wheelchairs, not a place for sitting. Otherwise, it'd be called a (wait for it) sidesit.
Attempting to bring a public nuisance lawsuit for someone sitting on a sidewalk would be a very difficult and expensive lawsuit to win.

There are already laws against blocking a sidewalk and an individual can be cited for breaking such laws without the need for bringing a civil lawsuit. However, there is not a law against merely sitting on a sidewalk, so long as one is not blocking the passage of others (some jurisdictions have tried passing so-called "sit/lie laws," and they usually get overturned upon a court challenge).

Most (not all, but the vast majority) of individuals who panhandle are mentally ill and/or addicted to drugs and alcohol. Ticketing and other traditional policing efforts simply get them to move temporarily, and they are back the next day, or even the next hour. Jail just becomes a taxpayer-funded revolving door, and they are right back to where they where doing the same thing, no matter how many tickets they get.

If you want to deal with the problem of mentally ill and drug and alcohol-addicted individuals, then you have to be willing to spend the resources to provide proper mental health and addictions treatment. It's fine (and perhaps more effective) if in certain circumstances you make it court-mandated, but it has to be real treatment, and it should not be attempted through under-funded, poorly organized programs which just shuffle people in and out. Effective treatment programs are expensive, but paying for them is a worthwhile investment which pays off over the long run. Benjamin Franklin's words about being "penny wise, and pound foolish" are very appropriate for describing the current way our society deals with the problem of the mentally ill and addicted. We pretend to save money by cutting funding to treatment programs and attempting to deal with the mentally ill/homeless/addicted through our broken and overburdened criminal justice system, while throwing away billions of taxpayer dollars a year in the process.

It is time to admit what a huge mistake we have been making and start addressing the problem in an effective manner.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #2849
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Idyllic Indy: "I'm not sure whether it's realistic to think that something else will be built between the railroad tracks and South Street that would obscure the view of the Convention Center from LOS."

I think it is realistic to think that something will be built there - however, since I'm pretty sure that land is owned by the CIB - which also owns the land where the Convention Center and LOS are - the land eventually will most likely be some type of low rise expansion of Convention facilities. That would mean it probably would be another three or so story structure. It probably would block the view of the aluminum back side of the current convention center - but - as it will likely only have a height of thirty or so feet - the view from LOS would then be of the roof of this new South Street fronting structure. I don't have a problem with that. In general - people looking out of the large LOS North Window will be focusing on the skyline. Similarly - that is probably what they primarily will be looking at now. From ground level - walking along South Street or somewhere on the north plaza of LOS - there will likely continue to be the ugly view of the aluminum backside of the convention center - but hopefully in ten years or so - it will go away -- at least hopefully - if Indianapolis' convention business continues to grow and the next expansion is necessary.

Hopefully that whole stretch of South Street from around Missouri St. to Pennsylvania St - and maybe beyond - will be changing over the next decade plus. Convention Center continued expansion from Missouri to Capitol; Transit hub construction between Capitol and Illinois (?); new Commercial / office / retail / residential mixed use between Illinois and Pennsylvania. Maybe new residential in the area from Delaware over to East or so.

Yes, I'm not thrilled with a two block long aluminum siding wall -- but I don't know that you could defend spending the needed money to make it a beautiful brick wall with a few windows when you consider that - most likely within a decade or so -- it will become invisible when a new expansion is built to its south. (I suppose the train engineers may appreciate seeing a brick wall instead of aluminum -- but then again - maybe not.)
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #2850
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Yes, I'm not thrilled with a two block long aluminum siding wall -- but I don't know that you could defend spending the needed money to make it a beautiful brick wall with a few windows when you consider that - most likely within a decade or so -- it will become invisible when a new expansion is built to its south. (I suppose the train engineers may appreciate seeing a brick wall instead of aluminum -- but then again - maybe not.)
It could have been the same siding, applied in varying colors and patterns.

Low or no incremental cost, big result.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #2851
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Agreed Besides the two block long back of the CC, I didn't mention the other two blocks of incredibly ugly aluminum siding that is riearly adjacent ---- the ugly aluminum box along the southern edge of the train shed from Capitol to Meridian. Boy that is another ugly wall of aluminum.

I remember about seven years ago or so - when all of a sudden is just seemed to appear. It was a shock and a half to all of a sudden have that view as you're entering the city from the south side. I still don't know how that horrible addition got approved. I think it even had to go through the Historic Preservation Commission -- since it is attached to Historic Union Station. That one really flabbergasted me.

Again -- similar to my thoughts about a future expansion hiding the current back of the CC, I hope a transit hub expansion along South Street - between Capitol and Illinois - may someday eventually cover up that aluminum train shed mess as well.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #2852
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It could have been the same siding, applied in varying colors and patterns.

Low or no incremental cost, big result.
Totally agree. And if nothing else, isn't the blank Convention Center wall an advertising opportunity? It would a little ironic to put "Indianapolis, Raising the Game" on the most mundane of walls, but you could advertise all kinds of Indianapolis initiatives to thousands of locals on that wall. Sustain Indy, IndyConnect, 100 Acres, whatever you want.

That wall should be viewed as an opportunity to be tapped. It's completely wasted in every way right now.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:08 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by kangaroo1 View Post
Effective treatment programs are expensive, but paying for them is a worthwhile investment which pays off over the long run. Benjamin Franklin's words about being "penny wise, and pound foolish" are very appropriate for describing the current way our society deals with the problem of the mentally ill and addicted. We pretend to save money by cutting funding to treatment programs and attempting to deal with the mentally ill/homeless/addicted through our broken and overburdened criminal justice system, while throwing away billions of taxpayer dollars a year in the process.

It is time to admit what a huge mistake we have been making and start addressing the problem in an effective manner.
Unfortunately those with most severe mental illnesses tend to be the most treatment-averse.

I'm talking about bipolar disorder and schizophrenia; patients only get better if they take their meds, but many stop taking the meds once they feel (temporarily) better. Alcoholism is similar in that a treatment facility can only help someone who WANTS help. The reason homelessness and severe mental illness overlap so much is that the sufferers have alienated everyone who cares about them, and there is no one in their lives to enforce a prescription-drug and therapy routine.

In each case, someone who thinks they're "okay" won't try to get better and will, in fact, get worse. They have to have the certain knowledge that they have a problem that only they can deal with, with support. No one can force that knowledge on them. And they can only be institutionalized if they are a "danger to others".

This is a really, really hard place; we (in Indiana and elsewhere) emptied the state mental hospitals of people suffering from these conditions because of a few self-sufficient successes. We did not (as a society) realize that it takes a long time for sufferers to get to a place where they can consistently self-manage...if ever. So there is no safety net, because we don't want to "lock them up" in a state hospital any more than we want to lock them up in jail.

(I have several relatives, people who DO have support systems, who suffer from these illnesses. They have had difficult lives with a lot of setbacks...and that's WITH family who care for and about them.)
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #2854
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Totally agree. And if nothing else, isn't the blank Convention Center wall an advertising opportunity? It would a little ironic to put "Indianapolis, Raising the Game" on the most mundane of walls, but you could advertise all kinds of Indianapolis initiatives to thousands of locals on that wall. Sustain Indy, IndyConnect, 100 Acres, whatever you want.

That wall should be viewed as an opportunity to be tapped. It's completely wasted in every way right now.
Wow. Great ideas!

When those things do sprout (because they're so blindingly obvious that everyone else overlooked them) I'll stand in the Bud Light Zone and hoist a cold one in your honor.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 05:48 AM   #2855
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Street dweller appeasement

I'm not who sleeps where and who begs where, but the City might start with clearing out the cess pool that is the homeless camp on Pine Street at the railroad underpass south of Washington Street, instead of acting like they solved the problem when they removed it from the downtown side of the Interstate on Davidson Street. Just a thought. I know it might sound insensitive, but I'm kind of a stickler for not having people living, littering, defecating, etc on public streets.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 04:46 PM   #2856
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Regarding the convention center, I was down on the canal this weekend with my wife as she was doing a photoshoot. I had to push the stroller with our kid, so I got to hang behind and look around a lot.

Where it looks like they have shored up the bridges crossing the canal with corrugated steel, a lot of them have been painted. I dont see why someone couldn't get in with Herron and suggest getting some student project of the same caliber for the side of the convention center. Could probably be done for the price of supplies
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Old September 1st, 2010, 12:14 AM   #2857
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The other project I'd love to see Herron Students (and anyone else interested, for that matter) compete for with their art proposals is the parking garage at the SE corner of Capitol and Ohio. It has offices on the first floor - but the upper five or six floors are a parking garage. The building is basically all a pale gray - with these regularly spaced rectangles placed all over it in rows.

It seems like such an excellent opportunity for some type of artistic plan to make that building look much, much better. Each rectangle could be painted different shades -- or each one could have some type of geometric pattern that would fit together somehow so that the whole building would be integrated like some type of puzzle. The panels are just sitting there like empty canvases. Lots of potential for something lively and artistic - yet it just sits there all pale and drab right now.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 06:22 AM   #2858
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Of course he's already got his killer whale mural on the wall up near St. Clair and Delaware. I think it looks alright.

One other note --- I went by the new residential project at Capitol and St. Clair this afternoon. Its looking much better now than what I had initially expected from my first impressions about three months ago. I like the colors that have recently been added -- kind of a sandy brown with a darker brown stripe. It looks kind of retro Mediterranean. The railings for the "mini porches" add a little texture - and now it looks like they've added some dark window shutters as well. Sure it might not be perfect -- but it adds some good variety to downtown. Its definitely 50 times better (or more) than the ugly parking lot that was there before.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 02:14 PM   #2859
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Im still not hyped up on it Tom. Its better than a parking lot, I think. But it still fails at so much. Those ground level doors on the outside look like an old apartment complex's outdoor storage closet. LOL Not entry doors
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Old September 1st, 2010, 03:46 PM   #2860
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I cannot put into words how much I hate The Di Rimini. They appear to have cut every corner in regards to design. Their site even has this rendering:



That's pretty bad to begin with and what's actually standing is far worse.

And I have to disagree that this is 50 times better than what was there before -- a bare lot is an opportunity; what they built is an abomination.
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