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Old November 17th, 2010, 02:33 AM   #1901
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Translink (the lorry/train idea) is a solution looking for a problem.

How much has been wasted on public inquiries (which go wrong)?

M62 is being widened *anyhow*, same with the M1 Leeds - Sheffield.

Longdendale Bypass is all about adding capacity - the HA figures showed traffic would be much worse (and grow higher) after the scheme is built, WITHOUT solving congestion.

Due to its flawed design, all the traffic would still queue westbound at Mottram Roundabout. People would choke (literally) in the villages, because fumes would sit above them, rather than on the valley floor (roads).

It is a strategic link masquerading as local 'environmental relief' road. Build it, and the pressure to upgrade the whole route becomes stronger. Build it in pieces, so no one notices, as part of a wider scheme.

Add Tameside MBC's grand idea to build a Tesco Extra (masquerading as a shopping centre) at Mottram Roundabout to encourage future, unwanted, local traffic.

As for Wigan's Inner Relief Road, aren't most trips local? Less than 5 miles? Encouraging modal change would free up road capacity. Building your way out of the solution (predict and provide) is old hat.

Remember, Labour tried doing the same with aviation, planning massive expansion, then the recession hit? What if they had built all that wasteful capacity?
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Old November 17th, 2010, 02:59 AM   #1902
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Reason for the need of the Inner relief road is this is the two main trunk roads of Wigan A49 running north-south and the A577/A58 running east-west through the town and they both run right through the Town Centre but at Saddle Junction its joined by 2 other principal roads (including A571) and then it has to go under a rail viaduct in only 3 bi-directional lanes.

The inner relief road would effectivley create a ring road around the town centre forming the West to Northern segment, long distance traffic such as lorries and traffic going northern or eastern parts of Wigan town would go north round the town centre on the new road while 'local' traffic which might be breaking off south into the various parts of Wigan Borough as well as eastwards traffic for Bolton would go south round the town centre.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 03:16 AM   #1903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Reason for the need of the Inner relief road is this is the two main trunk roads of Wigan A49 running north-south and the A577/A58 running east-west through the town and they both run right through the Town Centre but at Saddle Junction its joined by 2 other principal roads (including A571) and then it has to go under a rail viaduct in only 3 bi-directional lanes.

The inner relief road would effectivley create a ring road around the town centre forming the West to Northern segment, long distance traffic such as lorries and traffic going northern or eastern parts of Wigan town would go north round the town centre on the new road while 'local' traffic which might be breaking off south into the various parts of Wigan Borough as well as eastwards traffic for Bolton would go south round the town centre.
I don't think either are officially 'trunk' roads anymore. A49 was bypassed by the M6. A577/A58 should have been replaced by the M58 extension/Route 225, but TPTB think it isn't in the regional or national interest. Given that the A49 has already been bypassed, and requires another one, confirms the arguement you can't build your way out. If the IRR becomes saturated, will we then build another one?

Surely the IRR would create an artificial choke around the town centre, further cutting off its inner suburbs and making it harder for those closest to move within their community?
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Old November 17th, 2010, 01:04 PM   #1904
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These are the primary East-West and North-South roads of the Borough forming a +, people need to use them to get to the motorway in the first place, theirs also a fair few national distribution companies along them utilising Wigans equidistant location in the North West.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #1905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by link_road_17/7 View Post
Translink (the lorry/train idea) is a solution looking for a problem.
Residents of Mottram, Hollingworth and Tintwistle regard the number of lorries on the A628 as a problem.

I'm not saying that the Woodhead lorry shuttle would solve everything, but it would provide haughliers with an extra option along with the bypass(es) and additional capacity on the M62.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 05:37 PM   #1906
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Before I start, I have to say I am not an anti-motorist green freak, but it's common sense that if the Longdendale M67-Sheffield route is improved, more traffic will use it, causing more congestion in this area.

When I drive between North Manchester and Sheffield, I use both the M62 and Snake Pass as they are both as convenient as each other. Outside Peak Times, Snake Pass is quicker and more fuel efficient than the M62/M1.

If Longdendale is bypassed, the journey to S Yorks will be quicker, which would attract more cars. This would then wipe out the spare capacity, making the area MORE congested. Plus Denton Island will get even more congested, meaning that the previously proposed flyovers will then have to be built in another few years time. Which will then make A57 traffic through Gorton worse, as well as the Mancunian Way and M60E.

Every kind of bypass proposed, except for a 3 lane motorway to the M1 will leave this area MORE congested than it is today. Just like today, a 3 lane motorway will STILL suddenly reduce down into 1 or 2 lanes, into an area which will still have poor radial road links.

A more effective idea is to curb the amount of traffic coming into the area from the M67.

Radical ideas for reducing M67 traffic include:
(Bear with me they get more as they go along)

1) Toll the M67, (you could do this just for lorries or) for all vehicular traffic (at peak times, or for most of the day, or with exemptions for High Peak/Tameside residents).
2) Reduce the the amount of lanes on the M67 from 3 to 2, adding an M4-style Bus Lane or 2+HOV Lane.
3) Close Junctions 1A, 2 and 3. This would prioritise this route as long-distance so short, local journeys wouldn't clog up this route. (Do Junction 1A and 2 seem pointless to anybody else, when Denton island is so close?)
4) Increase journey times via Simister Island by making the junction free-flow
5) Increase journey times via Broadway/A627(M) by giving traffic light priority to A627(M)-M60 Traffic, or even more radically, free-flow, grade separated junctions at Middleton Road and the M60 junction
6) Re-open the Woodhead Route as a Rail Route. This would give a quick alternative travelling driving through Longdendale. You could have a shuttle-style vehicle service from a station at the M62/M60/M602 Junction straight through to South Yorkshire or even the East-Coast ports (Hull). This would reduce traffic at Simister, on the Mancunian Way and Longdendale.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #1907
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Blackpool trams come to Heaton Park

17 November 2010

Heaton Park will be transporting tram enthusiasts to 'Blackpool' for a tram extravaganza in the park this weekend.

Organised by the volunteers of Manchester Tram Society, who are based in the park, 'A celebration of Blackpool's Trams and Transport' will take place on Sunday 21 November from 10am.

Highlights of the day will include four Blackpool trams on the tramway, including two open top double deckers. There will also be a unique opportunity to ride on the 706 tram which is on loan from Blackpool. The tram museum will be open all day with the Blackpool tram models on display and as daylight fades an illuminated tram will also light up the tracks. Old Blackpool buses will also be taking passengers on trips around the park.

Councillor Mike Amesbury, executive member for culture and leisure said: "This is the first time we have had an event like this in the park and the tram society has worked incredibly hard to make it happen this year. It is has a broad appeal and we hope that enthusiasts and other visitors will enjoy it."

To take part in the event and support Manchester's tram enthusiasts ticket prices are £5adult and £3 child. Tickets are on sale online from www.heatonparktramway.org.uk and are available to purchase on the day at the Tram Museum.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 10:49 PM   #1908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M60 View Post
Radical ideas for reducing M67 traffic include:
(Bear with me they get more as they go along)

1) Toll the M67, (you could do this just for lorries or) for all vehicular traffic (at peak times, or for most of the day, or with exemptions for High Peak/Tameside residents).
2) Reduce the the amount of lanes on the M67 from 3 to 2, adding an M4-style Bus Lane or 2+HOV Lane.
3) Close Junctions 1A, 2 and 3. This would prioritise this route as long-distance so short, local journeys wouldn't clog up this route. (Do Junction 1A and 2 seem pointless to anybody else, when Denton island is so close?)
4) Increase journey times via Simister Island by making the junction free-flow
5) Increase journey times via Broadway/A627(M) by giving traffic light priority to A627(M)-M60 Traffic, or even more radically, free-flow, grade separated junctions at Middleton Road and the M60 junction
6) Re-open the Woodhead Route as a Rail Route. This would give a quick alternative travelling driving through Longdendale. You could have a shuttle-style vehicle service from a station at the M62/M60/M602 Junction straight through to South Yorkshire or even the East-Coast ports (Hull). This would reduce traffic at Simister, on the Mancunian Way and Longdendale.
Thats not radical, just wait 'til Voldemort gets on here, he'll have plans with great multi-lane freeways in tunnels and everything! I bet he's opened up MSPaint already, which I eagerly await.

(If I had my way, Volde wouldn't just be head of GMITA, I'd have him running the DOT!)
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:08 PM   #1909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
Thats not radical, just wait 'til Voldemort gets on here, he'll have plans with great multi-lane freeways in tunnels and everything! I bet he's opened up MSPaint already, which I eagerly await.

(If I had my way, Volde wouldn't just be head of GMITA, I'd have him running the DOT!)
Fraid not Hearty boy, I don't do roads. They're not exciting Just concrete ribbons with white paint in the middle.

But I don't just do transport! Hell no! I'm currently working on an interesting scheme I'd love to see get done in Ordsall. Should have it up here by Saturday
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #1910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
These are the primary East-West and North-South roads of the Borough forming a +, people need to use them to get to the motorway in the first place, theirs also a fair few national distribution companies along them utilising Wigans equidistant location in the North West.
Surely that is a demonstration of piss poor land use and transportation planning by the local authority?

Either that or a clever trick in allowing those sites to be built, and then build the road later.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #1911
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Can't wait!

(but I still bet you'ld have come up with some fantastic 'concrete ribbons' )
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #1912
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I suppose there are a few concrete ribbons running through the masterplan, yeah
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #1913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
Thats not radical, just wait 'til Voldemort gets on here, he'll have plans with great multi-lane freeways in tunnels and everything! I bet he's opened up MSPaint already, which I eagerly await.

(If I had my way, Volde wouldn't just be head of GMITA, I'd have him running the DOT!)
They already exist for the M67!

http://pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/m67_m...aps/City.shtml
http://pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/m67_m...d%20West.shtml
http://pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/m67_m...d%20East.shtml
http://pathetic.org.uk/unbuilt/m67_m...ksbridge.shtml

Having lived in Longdendale, and having the family home moved for 'clearance' purposes for a section that is still unbuilt, I see the self-styled Longdendale Siege Committee as nothing but a bunch of house-price obsessed twats led by Roy Oldham (deceased) who didn't even have a clue at a public inquiry (at Sheffield, back in 1981) that the scheme went through his own back garden (on Mottram Moor).

If roads = prosperity, how come Hattersley is still so poor, if not poorer, since the place was built (started 1965, motorway and railway station completed 1978)?
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Old November 18th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #1914
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Quote:
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Surely that is a demonstration of piss poor land use and transportation planning by the local authority?

Either that or a clever trick in allowing those sites to be built, and then build the road later.
The Roads are actually Roman, continued to be used in Medieval times, unfortunatley people didnt think several hundred years ago that arterial routes should go via town centres

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Old November 18th, 2010, 01:29 AM   #1915
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I was referring to the (unbuilt) A5225. One of the oldest tricks in the planning book is to build a road through green belt, which then creates 'pockets of land' suitable for development.

However, due to the insanity of our planning system, some places build the developments before the roads.

Perhaps that is why Britain should never have abandoned its new towns policy.

Why should older towns, GM or anywhere els, with a outdated, creaking infrastructures dating back to Roman times, suffer, when we have areas ripe for development and wide, purpose-built roads in the likes of Skelmersdale, Warrington, and Central Lancashire (Preston, Chorley, Leyland)?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 07:28 PM   #1916
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From: http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/bl...bypass-is-dead

Quote:
Longdendale Bypass: time to accept that it's not getting built

16 November: The Mottram-Tintwistle Bypass is not getting built, and neither is its replacement, the Longdendale Bypass. Just don't tell Tameside Council.

For years, Tameside and the Highways Agency have been scheming to bypass a collection of villages at the western end of the Peak District. Three or four years ago it limped to public inquiry, where the HA singularly failed to demonstrate a need for the bypass.

After an 18 month delay, whilst they tried to make the data support the road scheme, they admitted defeat and called off the road. Then the local council stepped up, vowing to deliver what locals called Bypass 2.0 (and the council called the Longdendale Integrated Transport Strategy).

When the Association of Greater Manchester Authorities refused to fund it, Tameside threatened to pull out altogether. AGMA hastily included the scheme, albeit in the 'hell will freeze over before this gets funding' category. Then came the spending review, which ignored the bypass completely.

But Tameside has rallied, and now plans to submit its bypass to the Regional Growth Fund and Local Sustainable Transport Fund. This should be interesting: the scheme in no way supports "sustainable economic growth" and is the antithesis of sustainable transport.

Someone really needs to tell Tameside when to quit. Seriously, this road scheme is dead. But it seems the council would rather keep screaming for its bypass instead of looking for an affordable, sustainable solution to congestion and traffic in Mottram, Tintwistle and Hollingworth.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 08:16 PM   #1917
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The "campaign for better transport" is the public transport lobbying group, therefore anything that doesn't further the cause of bus or rail is treated as if it's the greatest evil ever. Sustainable transport for these guys is only that which will keep the money flowing in, ie public transport.

They do have some good ideas, like the Brent Cross railway, but their vested interests against new build roads that aren't busways means this article fails to convince me that the long-suffering residents of Hollingworth, Mottram and Tintwistle's aim to be bypassed won't happen or isn't needed.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #1918
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The CfBT don't just speak for themselves, but agree with others such as local residents and the CPRE.

If public will is behind it, how come the residents of Alderley Edge have been successful, whereas Longdendale hasn't? Haven't they been waiting and suffering similar plights in similar circumstances for a similar period?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #1919
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From: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...r_90_year_wait

Quote:
Chancellor opens Alderley Edge bypass after 90 year wait

November 19, 2010

After nearly a century of planning MP George Osborne opened the Alderley Edge and Nether Alderley bypass and said it would be a new lease of life for the village.

The £52million relief road was unveiled in a grand ceremony attended by 200 invited guests who have been involved in the project's long history.

Classic cars lined the bypass to represent the decades since the first plans were drawn up in the 1920s.

After the ribbon-cutting by George Osborne guests were taken on a tour of the three-mile route.

Mr Osborne said: "It's amazing to be here. All the years I have been MP here we have been campaigning for this road. It will take traffic out of the village and help the 20,000 commuters, residents of Alderley Edge and the people who work here.

"It's been a long time coming and a wonderful team effort."

When asked whether the bypass would have survived his cuts Mr Osborne added: "The bypass has always been on my list. I have always said there will be huge economic benefits for the area."

Guests attended a celebration lunch at Festival Hall after the opening.

A spokesman for Cheshire East Council said the road would open to the public this afternoon.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 03:30 PM   #1920
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drove it last night in the dark - there will be accidents for sure - it should have been dualled but never will be as they've skimped on it on the overhead bridges (WCML especially) :-(
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