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Old November 30th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #341
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China's high-speed trains pre-CRH

I think this topic deserves its own thread, but if local mods feel otherwise please feel free to merge this with one of the existing Chinese railways threads.

Now, what I suspect a lot of people here don't know, is that before the very high-profile CRH era, the MOR and its factories developed a few of China's own prototype models.

China Star

(Images from Hudong Tupian)







Formation - push+pull and 9 carriages

Top operational speed - 270 km/h

This train is formed of 2 electric locomotives one at each end, and 9 carriages in the middle. Top operational speed is 270 km/h though in a test-run as early as 2003 it achieved 321 km/h.

And Blue Arrow,



(Picture from http://www.ce.cn/xwzx/gnsz/gdxw/2009...20192685.shtml)



(Picture from Baidu http://hi.baidu.com/stepdo/blog/item...3d7cae2cc.html)

The blue arrow has a formation of push+pull+5 carriages, and is designed for 200 km/h running. The train was developed between 1998 and 2000 and test run speed reached 305 km/h. Seems it has been in trial passenger service in 2009 and 2010 in Sichuan though exact details are hard to compile and information on the internet has discrepencies.

For probably very valid reasons MOR opted for importing European and Japanese models for the CRH network. These trains seemed to have been forgotten somehow, with further development of the China Star practically abandoned.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 01:24 AM   #342
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2010.11.29 CRH380A-6041L scored 475km/h, Final test will lauch tomorrow,

CRH380BL lost to CRH380AL, though the sources didn't disclose it's top speed in the trail run
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Old December 1st, 2010, 03:07 AM   #343
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By comparing just the looks of them, 380A looks much more aerodynamic.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 03:51 AM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
2010.11.29 CRH380A-6041L scored 475km/h, Final test will lauch tomorrow,

CRH380BL lost to CRH380AL, though the sources didn't disclose it's top speed in the trail run
It actually would make sense that the 380AL can achieve a higher top speed than the 380BL. The AL has 2040 kW more power than the BL. And I'm not sure about the specifications of the BL, but I would assume that the AL has an overall lighter weight than the BL. But then again, I can't be sure about that one.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 05:57 PM   #345
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I think MOR won't publish any speed data until the contest is completed, at this point those speeds can be considered trade secret. But boy 475 sure is fast, not 575 fast, but getting there.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:30 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I think MOR won't publish any speed data until the contest is completed, at this point those speeds can be considered trade secret. But boy 475 sure is fast, not 575 fast, but getting there.
Obviously the Chinese have had a huge leg up from the European train manufacutrers, but their progress has been fantastic since then.

I guess for China the speed is a premium. In the UK i know it is not really worthwhile having a line in excess of 400kph as distances between destinations is not that great, but given the size of China, having a 500kph traim could be the difference between sucess or failure on long distance routes.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:43 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Obviously the Chinese have had a huge leg up from the European train manufacutrers, but their progress has been fantastic since then.

I guess for China the speed is a premium. In the UK i know it is not really worthwhile having a line in excess of 400kph as distances between destinations is not that great, but given the size of China, having a 500kph traim could be the difference between sucess or failure on long distance routes.
its nice to have thousands of engineers working for you for slightly more than a bowl of rice
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:52 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its nice to have thousands of engineers working for you for slightly more than a bowl of rice
Your trite hyperboles, on the other hand, are neither nice nor interesting.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:52 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Your trite hyperboles, on the other hand, are neither nice nor interesting.
nevertheless true
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:58 PM   #350
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Quote:
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nevertheless true
you apparently neither have a clue about the facts, nor a clue about the meaning of "hyperbole". Hyperboles are never true.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 07:03 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I think MOR won't publish any speed data until the contest is completed, at this point those speeds can be considered trade secret. But boy 475 sure is fast, not 575 fast, but getting there.
Actually, the 475km/h speed appears to have been clocked by an unmodified train-set (CRH380AL), so it does not make much sense to compare it with the French record, which was made with a mega-beefed-up configuration set up for the express purpose of creating a (pretty meaningless) speed record.

Last edited by Ariel74; December 1st, 2010 at 11:01 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 07:19 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Obviously the Chinese have had a huge leg up from the European train manufacutrers, but their progress has been fantastic since then.

I guess for China the speed is a premium. In the UK i know it is not really worthwhile having a line in excess of 400kph as distances between destinations is not that great, but given the size of China, having a 500kph traim could be the difference between sucess or failure on long distance routes.
You're right. The countries that do have advanced HSR technologies (Japan, France and Germany) are not large enough to have the need to really boost the speed. Plus they either have to utilize the existing lines or have laid their tracks for lower speed limit for various reasons.

China is a completely different story. It has the size and therefore the need; it builds on such a large scale and from scratch and therefore can build brand new infrastructure (much of the new Chinese HSR are built on elevated bridge and have much larger track radius). For all these reasons, it's no wonder we see the Chinese are making huge and rapid progress.

It's really exciting to watch and follow the HSR development in China.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:15 PM   #353
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China is the only place the world where the most can come out of HSR. The US could do it but doesn't have the political, economic, and cultural will. Just look at it this way. When Shanghai opened the maglev train to the public, I actually heard a radio talk show host in the US furiously angry over it. It was a German made train that was bought so why would he be angry? It's because China who he looked at as inferior should not be allowed to have anything that anyone superior doesn't have. That was simply it. Which is why you have so many trolls coming into here trying to turn lemons into lemonade with their stereotypes to lessen China's achievements. China is planning to export HSR to countries where never before had those luxuries because they could never afford it from the West. Can you imagine the volcanic explosion when more inferiors get what the superiors don't have? Makes you wonder if China discovered a cure for cancer, would they dare to be angry about it?
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Old December 1st, 2010, 11:09 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its nice to have thousands of engineers working for you for slightly more than a bowl of rice
Skilled professionals are paid quite handsomely in China.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 11:25 PM   #355
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Any news on what speed the 380BL reached?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 03:07 AM   #356
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CRH380A will start regular service at wuguang PDL tomorrow.CRH380BL will lauch further test at Jinghu HSR at December 4 & 5.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 05:12 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
China is the only place the world where the most can come out of HSR. The US could do it but doesn't have the political, economic, and cultural will. Just look at it this way. When Shanghai opened the maglev train to the public, I actually heard a radio talk show host in the US furiously angry over it. It was a German made train that was bought so why would he be angry? It's because China who he looked at as inferior should not be allowed to have anything that anyone superior doesn't have. That was simply it. Which is why you have so many trolls coming into here trying to turn lemons into lemonade with their stereotypes to lessen China's achievements. China is planning to export HSR to countries where never before had those luxuries because they could never afford it from the West. Can you imagine the volcanic explosion when more inferiors get what the superiors don't have? Makes you wonder if China discovered a cure for cancer, would they dare to be angry about it?
I'm not quite sure that's the case, American high tech institutions and academia are filled with Chinese engineers, nobody with more than high school education will make that association.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 05:37 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its nice to have thousands of engineers working for you for slightly more than a bowl of rice
The thousands of engineers working on this line on average make more money (on a dollar terms) than an average person in Canada or the United States.

In purchasing power terms, the thousands of engineers working on this line on average would make more than 3 times the average salary in Canada or the United States.


Now take your foot and shove it up your mouth.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 07:54 AM   #359
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Quote:
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I'm not quite sure that's the case, American high tech institutions and academia are filled with Chinese engineers, nobody with more than high school education will make that association.
You must misunderstood something because never said anything of the sort to make that conclusion or have an idea of the context of your statement.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 09:44 AM   #360
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The Blue Arrow ran on Guangshen line before CRH1s replaced them in 2006-7. I've been on them a few times. They appear to have been modelled after the imported X2000s that ran Guangshen in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I believe the Blue Arrows have been moved inland to serve on older lines and they seem to run well, being relatively primitive compared to the CRH EMUs.

Unlike the Blue Arrow, experimental trains like the China Star and the Changbaishan (curiously similar to an ICE-3 in appearance) only saw very limited service and none of them are currently in service now.
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