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Old February 18th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #21
think-tank
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Yoga is not related to any religious script, vedanta philosophy is not written for hindus nor it is anyway related to Hinduism alone.

Secondly, it's not a crime if someone develops the practice of yoga to suit their own needs, ancient thinkers never thought of patenting it neither should you guys.

Thridly, Yoga is divided into two parts - physical and mental. Some guys have trouble understanding this distinction but in reality they are two separate branches of study.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 08:14 PM   #22
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Not as Old as You Think


SECRETS OF THE MYSORE PALACE

New research has brought to light historical documents and oral histories that raise serious doubts about the ‘ancient’ lineage of Pattabhi Jois’ Ashtanga Vinyasa and Iyengar yoga. Both Jois (1915–2009) and Iyengar (born 1918) learnt yoga from T Krishnamacharya from 1933 till the late 1940s, when he directed a yoga school in one wing of the Jaganmohan Palace of the Maharaja of Mysore, Krishnaraja Wodiyar IV (1884–1940).

The Maharaja, who ruled the state and the city of Mysore from 1902 till his death, was well known as a great promoter of Indian culture and religion. But he was also a great cultural innovator, who welcomed positive innovations from the West, incorporating them into his social programmes. Promoting physical education was one of his passions, and under his reign, Mysore became the hub of a physical culture revival in the country. He had hired Krishnamacharya primarily to teach yoga to the young princes of the royal family, but he also funded the travels all over India of Krishnamacharya and his protégés to give yoga demonstrations, thereby encouraging an enormous popular revival of yoga.

Indeed, Mysore’s royal family had a long-standing interest in hatha yoga: Mummadi Krishnaraja Wodeyar III (1799–1868), Wodeyar IV’s ancestor, is credited with composing an exquisitely illustrated manual, titled Sritattvanidhi, which was first discovered by Norman Sjoman, a Swedish yoga student, in the mid-1980s in the library of the Mysore Palace. What is remarkable about this book is its innovative combination of hatha yoga asanas with rope exercises used by Indian wrestlers and the danda push-ups developed at the vyayamasalas, the indigenous Indian gymnasiums.

Both Sjoman and Mark Singleton, a US-based scholar who has interviewed many of those associated with the Mysore Palace during its heyday in the 1930s, believe that the seeds of modern yoga lie in the innovative style of Sritattvanidhi. Krishnamacharya, who was familiar with this text and cited it in his own books, carried on the innovation by adding a variety of Western gymnastics and drills to the routines he learnt from Sritattvanidhi, which had already cross-bred hatha yoga with traditional Indian wrestling and acrobatic routines.

In addition, it is well established that Krishnamacharya had full access to a Western-style gymnastics hall in the Mysore Palace, with all the usual wall ropes and other props that he began to include in his yoga routines.

Sjoman has excerpted the gymnastics manual that was available to Krishnamacharya. He claims that many of the gymnastic techniques from that manual—for example, the cross-legged jumpback and walking the hands down a wall into a back arch—found their way into Krishnamacharya’s teachings, which he passed on to Iyengar and Jois. In addition, in the early years of the 20th century, an apparatus-free Swedish drill and gymnastic routine, developed by a Dane by the name of Niels Bukh (1880–1950), was introduced to India by the British and popularised by the YMCA. Singleton argues that “at least 28 of the exercises in the first edition of Bukh’s manual are strikingly similar (often identical) to yoga postures occurring in Pattabhi Jois’ Ashtanga sequence or in Iyengar’s Light on Yoga.” The link again is Krishnamacharya, who Singleton calls a “major player in the modern merging of gymnastic-style asana practice and the Patanjali tradition.”

Meera Nanda is a visiting professor of history of science at the Indian Institute of Science Education and Research, Mohali
Good Info on Mysore and its Yoga connection ,lot of foreigners come down to Mysore for yoga classes.

Mysore- The yoga Capital of India??
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Old February 18th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #23
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Oh Good god!! you really drool whenever you see Mysore
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Old February 18th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #24
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He is the second Tiger of Mysore
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Old February 18th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #25
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Yoga is not related to any religious script, vedanta philosophy is not written for hindus nor it is anyway related to Hinduism alone.
Really ??!!! I never knew Vedanta is not for hindus. Agreed its written for entire humanity. The ones who follow Vedanta ideas were typically referred as Hindus.. In fact Astika Nastika definitions of the yore were based on who believe in Vedas (Different schools of hinduism) and who didnt..(Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka..)
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Old February 18th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #26
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Really ??!!! I never knew Vedanta is not for hindus. Agreed its written for entire humanity. The ones who follow Vedanta ideas were typically referred as Hindus.. In fact Astika Nastika definitions of the yore were based on who believe in Vedas (Different schools of hinduism) and who didnt..(Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka..)
Again people confuse vedas, hinduism is derived from vedanta but vedanta is not hinduism. In fact hinduism is a set of religious practices all grouped together into one, which is mainly dualistic ideas and practices because people found it difficult to accept raw messages of high philosophy therefore succumbed to external objectification and morality of the texts. Vedanta or Isopanishad in particular highlights monotheism which is a little different compared to what the majority of Hindus think.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #27
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Again people confuse vedas, hinduism is derived from vedanta but vedanta is not hinduism. In fact hinduism is a set of religious practices all grouped together into one, which is mainly dualistic ideas and practices because people found it difficult to accept raw messages of high philosophy therefore succumbed to external objectification and morality of the texts. Vedanta or Isopanishad in particular highlights monotheism which is a little different compared to what the majority of Hindus think.
No one claimed Monotheism as the crux of Hinduism. If you claim Vedas are not part of the core of hinduism, then ... sorry.. I leave the point right there... All major branches of philosophies have their own spin of upanishadic commentaries.

There are certain precepts which hinduism has borrowed and evolved like village deities in south india..

its not democracy we are talking.. like majority thinking like something.. In TN,we have DK parties dead against hinduism, still giving their names as hindus and claim all benefits as a dalit SC/ST hindu community..

Hinduism is so vast.. you can look at it from various angles... again the question was about primarily hatha yoga.. My response was based on the epistemological angle.. not the societal angle you are pursuing. There is a universe of difference between the two approaches.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 10:49 PM   #28
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I like the title
Well I too read it as

Yagu: not as old as you think
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Old February 18th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #29
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No one claimed Monotheism as the crux of Hinduism. If you claim Vedas are not part of the core of hinduism, then ... sorry.. I leave the point right there... All major branches of philosophies have their own spin of upanishadic commentaries.

Hinduism is so vast.. you can look at it from various angles... again the question was about primarily hatha yoga.. My response was based on the epistemological angle.. not the societal angle you are pursuing. There is a universe of difference between the two approaches.
I was merely telling you the facts, people found it difficult to accept vedas that's why saints wrote upanishads, like Bagvad Gita to explain the moral truths behind the scriptures, which eventually became Hinduism. Mahabharata for instance didn't really happen in "real life" like people think, it's a derivation of vedanta written by "Veda Vyasa" which explains the philosophical truths of vedas to the common people. Krishna is a reference to the human soul, not some person as people imagined, only if you have deciphered these old scriptures clearly will you know the answer

Also let me enlighten you about hatha yoga because you were nearly right, it was a preparatory phase for accomplishing Brahman Yoga which is a derivation of Raja Yoga and other forms of meditative yogas.

peace out X
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 01:31 AM   #30
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Let me give you a different spin to this. I have heard many christian (US) groups claiming to teach Christian Yoga. Their take on this (of course they go and learn from some guru.. who will be out of the loop )... take this fad called yoga (atleast in west, there has been this fascination since Vivekanada times..) and put a christian spin on the teaching and keep their flock together. That comes close to HAF's thought process of wanting to keep knowledge within a community.
Is this what you were talking about?
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 04:51 PM   #31
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Is this what you were talking about?
Interesting find. Similar to the ones I had come across. But this one seems to be on the milder side, let me state that.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 09:26 PM   #32
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Milder? lol. I thought this was an epitome of blasphemy
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 05:12 AM   #33
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Yoga is manufactured by China and was invented BY GREAT BRITAIN!
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 06:04 AM   #34
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I am with stupid
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Old June 1st, 2011, 09:47 PM   #35
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Ya ,it is sad truth that ?yoga??? is neither hindu nor that old.
but indeed -yog-is hindu and it is quite ancient.
ya i agree that yogAAAA is an american property developed by some westeren idiot.
nexp on the line must be vedAAAAS..
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Old June 1st, 2011, 10:11 PM   #36
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yogAAAA is not that old ..it must be some 50 year old manufactured by amreeecans and sold io c-ds and dvd and is also hit on youtube
it is an idiocy to thinj that yog is not a hindu..
shavasna must be developed by mr silvester assange who lived in california and mayurasan was invented by mary piercf who played for france..
ha
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 11:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by think-tank View Post
Again people confuse vedas, hinduism is derived from vedanta but vedanta is not hinduism. In fact hinduism is a set of religious practices all grouped together into one, which is mainly dualistic ideas and practices because people found it difficult to accept raw messages of high philosophy therefore succumbed to external objectification and morality of the texts. Vedanta or Isopanishad in particular highlights monotheism which is a little different compared to what the majority of Hindus think.
Omg i am laughing greatly .you must be haring certain naik who mentioned that vedas mention one god and al hindus are fools.
going by hin mohammed was kalki avatar..haha.
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 11:17 PM   #38
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yes you are right hinduism is not derived from vedanta.it is derived frm geographical term al-hind.
sanatan dharma,jain dharma,buddha dharma,all are offshoot of common civilization of sindhu-saraswati.
all are newer and comlex to same order.
by the way do you believe in the great aryan invasion theory again developed by british..hahaha..
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #39
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Interesting find. Similar to the ones I had come across. But this one seems to be on the milder side, let me state that.
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Milder? lol. I thought this was an epitome of blasphemy
Unitarianism, which challenges some basic Christian tenets is considered blasphemy by all other Christian denominations. That would explain the mild tone.
Unitarians, IMO, are most progressives of all Christian denominations.
The article surely does show the internal conflict traditional Christians go through accepting anything other than what their Church teaches.
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चमचे भाई चमचे भाई पूँछ हिलाते कहाँ चले| चूँ च्ँ चूँ च्ँ करते झोले आक़ा की ओर चले||....Meanwhile the Village idiot's hysterical
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Old October 24th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #40
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Indeed, if any Hindu tradition can at all claim a patent on postural yoga, it is these caste-defying, ganja-smoking, sexually permissive, Shiva- and Shakti-worshipping sorcerers, alchemists and tantriks, who were cowherds, potters and suchlike. They undertook great physical austerities not because they sought to achieve pure consciousness, unencumbered by the body and other gross matter, but because they wanted magical powers (siddhis) to become immortal and to control the rest of the natural world.

Hinduism, whether ancient, medieval or modern, has no special claims on 21st century postural yoga. To assert otherwise is churlish and simply untrue.

+++

Meera Nanda is a visiting professor of history of science at the Indian Institute of Science Education and Research, Mohali
Interesting perspective.
The author has taken skepticism to extreme by unsubstantiated generallisations and opinions, such as one about the motivation of practising yoga by ganja smoking ascetics being the desire to control the rest of the natural world!

Human knowledge advances by interaction with others. It's quite likely what we know as yoga today has elements borrowed from the Chinese. Or they could have developed independently. Even, zero, might not be exclusively Indian.
Scientific advances attributed to individuals are based on works of others. If Marconi invented radio, the Yoga is certainly a property of Hindus. The author states that the only Hindu tradtion that can lay a claim to yoga is that practised by "caste-defying, ganja-smoking, sexually permissive, Shiva- and Shakti-worshipping sorcerers, alchemists and tantriks, who were cowherds, potters and suchlike."
They were Hindu by any definition of "Hindu". The author and the believer in the author fail to see the contradiction in their hypothesis.
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चमचे भाई चमचे भाई पूँछ हिलाते कहाँ चले| चूँ च्ँ चूँ च्ँ करते झोले आक़ा की ओर चले||....Meanwhile the Village idiot's hysterical
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