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Old May 30th, 2011, 05:55 PM   #61
odlum833
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There is already controversy today over this interview he gave 10 years ago to McGill Magazine (this from politics.ie)
















See anything potentially problematic in that article?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #62
nordisk celt83
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Problematic for David Norris's campaign perhaps, but certainly not problematic in terms of my support for him!!!

A salacious, slur-filled article written by some 90 year old food critic, who uses words like 'appear' should not be taken as gospel. It's pure nasty, and speaks more about Helen Lucy Burke than it does about the senator.


What it boils down to is, do I believe that David Norris believes that it's ok to have sex with children??? No I don't!!!

Some homophobe, bigotted christian fundamentalists may be dying to paint a picture of a paedophile loving gayer, but I aint falling for such hateful efforts to slur a generally decent man!!!
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Old May 30th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #63
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Also, hardly a coincidence that this has come to the fore after David Norris has topped his 6th poll in a row. It's an obvious smear campaign, and hopefully these agenda-fuelled idiots won't get there way!!!
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Old May 30th, 2011, 08:38 PM   #64
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This was all over the National airwaves today - his campaign has been torpedoed. It has nothing to do with his sexuality but his quoted comments in that article that will be brought up time and time again. How anyone could stand by comments like that in relation to children is beyond me. Why did he not just say in response to the child sex question - "no"....instead he had to go and have an "intellectual" conversation. His campaign is over before it has even started. He knows it. He would not even go on air anywhere today to my knowledge to defend himself. He only released a statement.

There is apparently a tape of the conversation btw. Not all of it was put in print because it was deemed too "grotesque" by the editor.

Do you see where this going?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #65
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I'll wait to reserve my judgement, but I do feel it's a very serious attempt to slur a man. The article isn't very well written, which makes it that bit dubious.

His campaign may be over before it started, but I still stand by my view that is a very serious misrepresentation of decent man.

Here's an interview, by joe jackson, in response to the article from 2002...

Quote:
Today, May 22nd, I interview David Norris, in Ireland’s Sunday Independent newspaper. During that interview he said our last interview in 2002 “saved” his life. How? Because it overturned a slanderous allegation that had been made about him in another newspaper and led to him receiving widespread public support. That’s the kind of thing that makes me proud to be an interviewer. Likewise, Norris said he hopes this interview will be in my upcoming book of inspirational interviews, Walk On With Hope In Your Heart. It may be. Here is the 2002 interview, followed by the latest.

The Joe Jackson Interview. David Norris.

Half way through this interview Senator David Norris hurriedly left his office in Leinster House, explaining “I’m too distressed to continue right now.” Five minutes later he returned, tried to continue but, within a minute or so, broke down and cried. And not superficial tears. The kind that rose from some atavistic depths within his soul. Indeed, as the Senator cried his hand was clamped to his forehead as if he was fearful it, too, might explode. David Norris also considered halting this interview altogether, telling me he was “terrified” that even referring to recent tabloid allegations might make “even one person” believe what that newspaper alleged.

But Norris finally agreed to continue, saying he believes, ultimately, in “the decency of the Irish people” and agreeing they’ll be better placed to make up their minds if they hear the full story.
So what did that newspaper allege? In one headline, “Senator Backs Sex With Children” under which was placed the claim, “Fury at gay’s ‘paeodphilia is OK’ message”. All of which arose followed an interview Norris gave to Magill magazine. In which what he actually said was: “I haven’t the slightest interest in children, or in people who are considerably younger than me. I cannot understand how anybody could find children of either sex in the slightest bit attractive sexually…but in terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks, for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man to adult life, there can be something said for it. Now, again, this is not something that appeals to me. Although when I was younger I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, treating me with affection, teaching me about life.”

Why was David “deeply wounded” by what he descriibes as the “tabloidisation” of his original interview?
“It is the cruellest thing that has ever happened to me. And I’ve lived with it, with a clear conscience, but it has been immensely painful” he explains.
“I can control it consciously but when I go asleep I’m wracked by nightmares in which I am unjustly accused of all kinds of terrible things I have never done. And why it wounds me so much is because I have fought so hard for the rights of people who are damaged, underprivileged and abused and this is an attempt to put me in the camp of the abusers. I am against abuse. It horrifies me. And I understand the pain of victims. I’ve been working in this whole area for more than thirty years. Don’t forget that way back Mary McAleese and myself set up the Committee for Homosexual Law Reform. And, more recently, I set up the prototype for the Foreign Affairs Committee, with Michael D Higgins. I also work extensively for Human Rights, in general.”

Still straining to gather his emotions Norris apologises, saying he hopes all this doesn’t sound like boasting on his behalf. I assure him it doesn’t. It sounds more like a man pleading for his political career. He continues.
“Well, in fact, I’m just back from a visit to Thailand where we were looking at the situation of HIV and the trafficking of women and children for sexual purposes. I was asked to be the leader of that group. And I was responsible and successful as that leader. Then I come home to this.”
What was his initial response to the article?
“Horror” he responds. “It so completely misrepresents everything I said. In the interview I said I cannot understand how anyone would consider it appropriate to have sex with children. And that the penetration of juveniles, of either sex, was wrong and harmful. So how can anyone say I back sex with children? But at the same time I knew what my views were. And I felt, and hoped, people who followed my career over the years would know what my record was. And what I stand for. And that I am a decent person.”

Nevertheless, even those who support Norris might question his assertion that there is something to be said for “classic paedophilia.”
“I got a letter from the Professor of Greek in Trinity and he, of course, understands what I was saying. Yet it was ‘pederasty’ I said, the magazine got it wrong” counters David. “But all I’m saying is that when I was seventeen, forty year ago, it was illegal to be gay. People were driven into bushes, public lavatories and that’s all there was for them. So if somebody, a few years older, who is handsome, athletic and so on, came along, the majority of young gay people would think that is a better alternative.”
Is the scenario David just described – furtive encounters in public parks and loos – how it was for him at seventeen?
“Not really. I got so involved in politics that I had to lead, virtually, a celibate life” he responds.” I also always felt I was entitled to dignity so these furtive encounters never appealed to me.”

Norris obviously was more of a romantic, no doubt longing to be lovingly introduced to sexual realities, treated with affection, taught about life. He was thirteen when he first fell in love. “With an older lad in school” but he never told the guy. Not that being gay was “easy” at the time.
“I lost all my youth, all the experiences of young manhood” he claims “Going to dances, holding hands, going on a date to the cinema. All my friends had that. I had nothing. Except this stifling sense of isolation.”
Until what age?
“I didn’t consciously meet another gay man until I was in my middle 20′s” he says.”So it was intensely lonely. But I escaped into a world of music and literature. That was where I lived, emotionally.”

“ David Norris is a Protestant, describes himself as “deeply religious” says “there never was” any collision between his faith and homosexuality and rejects the view of those who say you can’t be a Christian and gay.
“That’s there problem, not mine, I never felt that” he asserts.”And I don’t think you can read the New Testament – especially St. John, which is about the centrality of love and compassion – and feel that.”
Meaning his faith must be helping him through this current crisis?
“Greatly. I don’t think I could have survived without it. ”

David Norris concludes by claiming that throughout this crisis “many people have told me I’m too trusting and too innocent” but if he is then this, Norris hopes, is something that will never change.
“I hope I don’t lose it, however painful things are” he says.”I would hate to become a crabbed, suspicious, bitter person. And if the price for retaining my innocence, in this sense, is that sometimes I am misunderstood, I will pay that price.”
Copyright: Joe Jackson
Edited the article to take out the bits about his childhood and his long-term partner, Ezra!!!

Last edited by nordisk celt83; May 30th, 2011 at 09:21 PM.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #66
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I'm reserving judgement also I highly doubt he advocates sex with children. He states as such, the reference to Greece is perfectly accurate if people don't like it then tough shit.

There is nothing wrong with say an older guy having sex with someone of legal age of consent. Some people need to build a bridge and get the **** over their prudish backwardness.
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Old May 30th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #67
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Im well aware fundamentalist Christians will seize on this with glee and I do genuinely think he was just foolish to even talk about that in that interview. I do think he is a sincere and honest man.


However I don't believe he is fit for the office of President after a blunder like that because it sows doubt in peoples minds as to just what his state of mind does be sometimes.


He will struggle for a nomination now and even if he gets it that article will be used over and over again. I can't see him being elected with that hanging over him. All because he did not just say "no".


P.S The Sunday Independent is a rag it has to be acknowledged. If they did use the headline "Senator backs sex with children" why did he not sue!?
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Old May 30th, 2011, 10:19 PM   #68
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I don't deny it's damaging to his campaign, but whether he'll get the nomination or not is still up for debate!!!

The people who will seek/have been seeking to bring it up over and over again have an obvious axe to grind, and have been throwing everything they can at the senator. There has been a concerted smear campaign against the senator since day one, and it's a great pity that 14 years after Adi Roche was wrongfully ruined by a smear campaign that it's happening again.

These are the same people who claim Mary Robinson is a baby-killing Free Mason, and deserve little media attention, but unfortunately they will get it!!! However, it's encouraging that the major media outlets have chosen not to run with this story; perhaps a few of them still have some journalistic integrity!

It's very clear from the interview he gave in 2002, that the article was something that haunted the man, and he acknowledges he even feared talking about it, and became visibly upset when discussing it.

Perhaps that wasn't shrewd on his part, but it certainly is understandable!!!
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Old May 31st, 2011, 07:11 AM   #69
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Yeah, it also strikes me as weird that this was released now, instead of when the Senator was just beginning to campaign.

This has all the makings of a smear job.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 11:22 AM   #70
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Listening to him on the Pat Kenny show, seems pretty straightforward that it was all misquoted, out of context, sensationalised bullshit
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Old May 31st, 2011, 01:18 PM   #71
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Audio of the interview

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0531/media-2968388.html#

"as a child would you prefer a man to put his hands down your pockets or be murdered - i'd want to stay alive"

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Old May 31st, 2011, 01:52 PM   #72
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Quote:
David Norris hits out at campaign 'sabotage'
Updated: 12:17, Tuesday, 31 May 2011



Senator David Norris has said the re-emergence of comments about the age of consent and incest is an attempt to sabotage his campaign to secure a nomination for this year's Presidential election.

The remarks attributed to Mr Norris originally appeared in an article by journalist Helen Lucy Burke in Magill magazine in 2002.

On Today With Pat Kenny, Senator Norris said the comments were taken out of context and were not direct quotes.

'I abhor the abuse of children. Sexual, emotional and physical,' he said.
Ms Burke claims that Senator Norris okayed everything in the article in advance and requested a few minor adjustments which she duly made.

Senator Norris said he is upset and angry that Ms Burke has chosen this moment to refer back to a previous article, and has described it as an attempt to 'sabotage' his campaign.

Ms Burke said she felt compelled to re-publicise the original interview before the election so the public would have all available information.

Ms Burke said she has found a cassette tape, which she believes is the recording of the interview but does not have a machine to play it back on.

Senator Norris is calling on Ms Burke to make the tape widely available as he believes it will clearly show that he did not make the controversial remarks.

Ms Burke appeared on RTÉ's Liveline yesterday to express her opposition to Senator Norris running for the Presidency.

In later comments on his Twitter account Senator Norris said he did not wish to see any attack on Ms Burke.

'My commitment has always been to contest and win this race for the Presidency with dignity; without negativity or personal attacks,' he added.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0531/norrisd.html
...
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Old May 31st, 2011, 04:23 PM   #73
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Odlum clearly doesn't have an axe to grind.......
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Old May 31st, 2011, 04:40 PM   #74
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I could not give a damn what he does in his private life or what his sexuality is however........

I draw a line when a public figure starts talking about the merits or otherwise of child sex...don't know about you.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:12 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catmalojin View Post
...

Ms Burke said she has found a cassette tape, which she believes is the recording of the interview but does not have a machine to play it back on.

So she has the tape? She should give it to RTE.

FWIW she requires a Phillip's Dictaphone to play it and sink his bid



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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:28 PM   #76
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Odlum, you've obviously known of the existance of the article for quite some time, so why is it only becoming an issue for you now??? (don't pretend it's the first you've heard of it.)

You're either trolling or your axe is only surfacing now at this late date!!!
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:29 PM   #77
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You were only supporting him two weeks ago, and announcing disgust at the campaignforconscience.

Your bi-polar tendancies are almost becoming as dramtic as those of Plank007!!!
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:33 PM   #78
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Good blog by respected Economist Constantin Gurdgiev today. All should have a read!!!

It's certainly one to take more heed of than some 90year old has-been food critic!!!
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordisk celt83 View Post
You were only supporting him two weeks ago, and announcing disgust at the campaignforconscience.

Your bi-polar tendancies are almost becoming as dramtic as those of Plank007!!!
LOL Geg!!
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:36 PM   #80
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I know, I'm so funny.
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