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Old June 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM   #21
Ashis Mitra
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FOOLISH AUTHORITY OF BUENOS AIRES

Buenios Aires’ great tram network was closed in 1962 for some blunt reasons –

1) The advent of buses and large scale competition meant that buses often ran the same routes as the trams and would jump in front in order to "grab" customers.
Buses are still present in Buenos Aires, even much more than before. Aren’t they competing with tram now? If now tram can attract more people than bus, I think if Buenos Aires Transport Authority should be patient, trams would sure survived, even defeat bus. Actually they started following other cities for withdrawing tram during sixties.

2) While buses were able to move into Buenos Aires 's expanding hinterland quicker and at less cost that the trams.
Current tram network has expanded many long distances, like General Savio, and the infrastructure is more expensive like bus (includes reserved track, masts, wires, stops, bridges etc.) But they are very popular for commuters than bus. If now they can re-make that costly infrastructure, why not past? Previous network was much ordinary than present. Actually they were lobbying the automobile industry, and the industry started marketing automobiles, like many cities around the world.

3) The belief that trams were outdated and old technology Meanwhile,
If tram is really outdated, why the transport authority returned it in Buenos Aires? It clearly shows that outdated technology idea was completely fake.

4) There was a belief that buses were cheaper to run than trams.
Although initial construction cost of tramway network is higher, but it is profitable for long term, because buses runs on diesel, which is being costly month by month over the world, and also decreasing from nature’s storage. Diesel can’t be made artificially, but electricity can make from various sources, like air, water, tide etc, so it is unlimited, and it is also pollution free.

5) The system was in a poor state of repair.
Many cities around the world, has maintained tram, struggling over World War 2, by investing seriously on track & rolling stocks. Even I live in Kolkata. India is poorer than Argentina, but my city has still a good tram network. When Istanbul closed their tram in 1962, Kolkata’s tram was its top state, both with income & service. So “impossible repairing” is just another lie.

6) The overcrowded and heaving trams running at a high frequency, in competition with growing private motor car and bus use, created congestion.
Buses are still present in Buenos Aires, even much more than before. Aren’t they competing with tram now? If now tram can attract more people than bus, I think if Istanbul Transport Authority should be patient, trams would sure survived, even defeat bus. It says that trams were overcrowded, it means were very popular among the citizens, and also ran on high frequency, means a reliable service. Actually they started following other cities for withdrawing tram during sixties.

7) Competition from the private car, private bus operators and the perception of traffic congestion led to the gradual closure of lines from the 1940s.
Despite the competition with automobile, they were very popular among citizens due to high frequency. Almost half part of the former network was on reserved track, which ensures no clash with cars & buses. At least they can maintain those routes, if the question of congestion arrives. Actually they were lobbying the automobile industry, and the industry started marketing automobiles, like many cities around the world.

8) Closure was supported by the authority, but generally went against public opinion.
It is very natural that ordinary people can’t be against with tram. Tram is pollution free, gentle and a status symbol of a civilized city. Even I live in Kolkata. India is poorer than Argentina, but my city has still a good tram network. When Buenos Aires closed their tram in 1962, Kolkata’s tram was its top state, both with income & service.

Buenos Aires’ previous tram survived from 1897 to 1960 and closed for those fake reasons. Tram reopened in 1987. So are we sure that around 2050, Buenos Aires will not again close its tram for some updated closure reasons?
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:29 PM   #22
Ashis Mitra
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Buenos Aires’ tramway system has returned in 1980. Currently there are 4, completely unlinked tram systems.
1) First heritage tram – TRANVIA HISTORICO opened in 1980.
2) First modern tram – PREMETRO opened in 1987.
3) Second modern tram – TRANVIA DEL ESTE opened in 2007.
4) Second heritage tram – QUILMES TRANVIA opened in 2010.

But all systems are completely separate from each other, which is not practical.

Now we are expecting specially the extension of TRANVIA DEL ESTE. I heard further extensions planned would extended 2 km to Retiro Rail Terminus and Intercity Bus Terminal and 5.2 km from the existing terminus at Independencia to Caminito in La Boca, and a further extension to Constitucion and Buenos Aires stations is also proposed.

I also suggest just 5 or 6 Km north extension of Premetro towards Caballito to connect Premetro with Tranvia Historico, so that both generations’ tram can run side by side. It is not hard to construct along the city streets.

A long southern extension of Tranvia Del Este towards Quilmes is also not impossible to build to connect Tranvia Del Este with Tranvia Quilmes, so that both generations’ tram can run side by side. It is not hard to construct along the city streets.

There are some questions relating this –

1) When will the extensions of tram lines be opened?

2) How is construction going on extension of Tranvia Del Este? Has they started? Please post some photos.

3) Will future extension will be also on reserved track?

4) Is there any plan of extension of Premetro?
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:42 PM   #23
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Answers:
1 no one knows
2 nothing new has been done yet, and no constructions going on right now
3 there are no maps or render for a possible future extension
4 the only ongoing plan is to make new lines and extensions in subways and also BRTs(bus rapid transit) in special lanes
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Old January 27th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #24
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Thank you very very much for your pointwise answers.

BRT is nothing but another way of air pollution.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #25
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Not agree.
1. All kinds of public transportation a)save money b) save nature c) take cars out of roads
2. If ur electric tram is powered by a plant making electricity out of coal... it's still the same polution, just in another place
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Old January 27th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #26
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very true, but the problem of BRT is that they pollute the air in the middle of the city, a coal factory does it were no one health is compromised. still as you say is the same pollution.

the Trams in Argentina are reborning , but not in buenos aires Yet.

The city of Mendoza is finishing his first modern line.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=932704

also Rosario and Ushuaia are planing to build their own sistems.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #27
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Exacty MatuARG. BRT will pollute the whole city like an ordinary bus.

It is clear that Buenos Aires’ tram company(s) is still not sincere to extend the network, just like the previous tram network, which was ultimately closed in 1966.

And only one question (I ASKED THIS QUESTION BEFORE TO ONLY ONE):-

Is this the final decision to stop the extensions??

A small correction - Mendoza is not returning tram, but building a light rail, same like Tren de la Costa of Buenos Aires.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 03:30 AM   #28
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yeah but it runs like a tram on the city center.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 01:35 PM   #29
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Friend, do you read the 1st post of this page, and give answer of the question written in red?
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 12:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
So are we sure that around 2050, Buenos Aires will not again close its tram for some updated closure reasons?
sorry but in argentina we aren't sure of whats gonna happend in the next for years... let alone de next 40... everything can happend, there are some projects to turn the BRT (Metrobus) into a Tram but it's expensive and for now we aren't sure if it's going to happen, also there is a projet to extend the Premetro but thhe Mayor doesn't give a **** about the southern zone of the city (the poorer) so it's unlikely to begin this extensions at least until 2015.
and finally there is the extension of the Tren del este that has been posponed until god knows what becuase nobody heard of it since 2009..

so awnser to the question: WE DON'T HAVE A CLUE!!
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Old February 8th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliesperet View Post
It still has the mulhouse stickers on it!
They bought them in France ?
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Old February 8th, 2012, 12:46 AM   #32
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no, now the tram that runs in tren del este is rented from Madrid Trams
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Old February 9th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #33
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Oh friend, the same thing is going in our country India. Although like Buenos Aires, tram has not closed in Kolkata, my city; but it is declining since 1970. Only 2 new lines have opened after that, but those were last done in 1986, and the latest extension was closed in 2011. There were many plans at that time, but nothing materialised. 5 lines were closed since 1970. But all other Indian cities have closed their network upto 1964, only Kolkata’s system survived.

If they really planned to convert some BRT lines finally to tram, it will be best. Metro is costlier, but tram will be much cheaper. Premetro’s extension is highly expected, especially towards Caballito, to serve south-western part of the city, equally urgent is the Tranvia del Este extension, especially towards Quilmes, to serve south-eastern part of the city.

The foolish mayor is lobbying BRT, which is eco-enimically. The BRT will use existing road, and despite reserved lane, it is a road vehicle, so will use petrol/diesel, and which will more pollute the air of the city.

Trolleybus is far better. The cost of trolleybus & BRT is almost same. It will be better to switch to trolleybus, rather than making BRT.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatuARG View Post
no, now the tram that runs in tren del este is rented from Madrid Trams
But on this tram it's written "Solea" the Mulhouse transport company.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #35
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not anymore now this tram runs on the tren del este

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Old February 24th, 2014, 07:11 AM   #36
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Unfortunately, the TRANVIA DEL ESTE has now closed!!! I never heard anywhere in earth nowadays that once tram has returned, it again closed!!!!!! In Buenos Aires, nothing is impossible.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 07:54 AM   #37
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Remains of former network. How glorious it was, and was one of the largest in the world.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Unfortunately, the TRANVIA DEL ESTE has now closed!!! I never heard anywhere in earth nowadays that once tram has returned, it again closed!!!!!! In Buenos Aires, nothing is impossible.
That makes no sense. Why have they closed it?
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Old February 24th, 2014, 06:07 PM   #39
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That makes no sense. Why have they closed it?
Because it went from nowhere to nowhere 20 blocks away, and was subsidized in at least 90% of its cost and carries less than 5% of capacity at all times.

Also, the national government turned it over to the city government, and no one was willing to pay the subsidies for something that carries so few people or to concrete the most simple project that would make it worthwile (running it another 8 blocks to the north to connect to Retiro)
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Old February 25th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #40
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Some pictures of the PreMetro:





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