Cebú Infrastructure and Urban Planning

[Moon's Eye]

Originally Posted by archerfish

@ moon eye
ha ha maybe it is you who should try to remember your english comprehension. because basing on your comment, you seem to have missed the points i have been bringing out here!

you said he has answered my sentiments already? are you sure?
so what was his answer regarding the same issue i have been bringing here again and again about the intersections that these BRT will be passing through especially if he insisted on using BRT for intercity travel without sacrificing travel time? can you answer that very specific question?

well, you said we've been talking about this for years. you should have read all the materials i have posted here before. unfortunately that thread was deleted because some people opted to post stupid comments on it. but you can help yourself by using the internet and try to educate your mind some more..

dont get me wrong zidlakan is my idol too in many ways! i have never met zid in my life nor have crossed paths with him before. so why are you suggesting that i have personal grudge with zidlakan?


@parchie. yes, you are right thaT if there is no studies that will back up your claim you better shut up... you mean to say that zidlakan should shut up too because right now he cant show us any studies to support the viability of intercity BRT for metro cebu? pls. correct me if im wrong...

@Archerfish... I hear you, maybe I missed the particular point you raised but I guess most of all were already being answered by Sir Zid. No offense, me too am a pro LRT/MRT but after reading the information presented here, in my mind I said… okay, it’s promising, let’s give it a try. I was just annoyed really, because from what I understand based on all your posts here, it seems to me like you are still have not gotten over with the decision to use BRT instead of LRT/MRT. I believed Sir Zid have done everything he could already, explaining every possible based on technicalities. If you just go over, read and understand all the information being presented here, maybe you will be enlightened .

In response to the Intersection problem, let me post my dreamed solution for that: “why not use an underground tunnel or just simply have a fly over intended only for BRT in a case of intersection?”. Tunnel specifically in the Fuente Osmena Circle with entry and exit points for riders maybe inside/outside the circle, I think this is worth imagining.

But anyway, BRT is still on FS stage, maybe they have a better solution for this, we’ll just wait, okay?

[MatudNilaBaby]

Originally Posted by Moon's Eye

@Archerfish... I hear you, maybe I missed the particular point you raised but I guess most of all were already being answered by Sir Zid. No offense, me too am a pro LRT/MRT but after reading the information presented here, in my mind I said… okay, it’s promising, let’s give it a try. I was just annoyed really, because from what I understand based on all your posts here, it seems to me like you are still have not gotten over with the decision to use BRT instead of LRT/MRT. I believed Sir Zid have done everything he could already, explaining every possible based on technicalities. If you just go over, read and understand all the information being presented here, maybe you will be enlightened .

In response to the Intersection problem, let me post my dreamed solution for that: “why not use an underground tunnel or just simply have a fly over intended only for BRT in a case of intersection?”. Tunnel specifically in the Fuente Osmena Circle with entry and exit points for riders maybe inside/outside the circle, I think this is worth imagining.

But anyway, BRT is still on FS stage, maybe they have a better solution for this, we’ll just wait, okay?

mas gamay siguro ang gasto sa fly over kaysa tunnel. i have seen a bus stop nga flyover diri sa metro transit system nila. so dunay morag ramp nga magsaka ang bus kon moabot na sa intersection. mosaka sa taas asa didto i unload ang mga pasahero which will make the pedestrian lanes under it less congested. inig human mudolhog nalang pud ang bus ngadto sa regular road unya ang mga pasahero monaog nalang pud via stairs or escalator. possible na imong idea and fuente osmena is the ideal place kay may wide space pa siya although unsa naman kaha ang looks sa fuente kon dunay flyover sa duol sa eskina. unless kon duna gyud aesthetic design sa flyover nga maka enhance sa look sa area.

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by Moon's Eye

@Archerfish... I hear you, maybe I missed the particular point you raised but I guess most of all were already being answered by Sir Zid. No offense, me too am a pro LRT/MRT but after reading the information presented here, in my mind I said… okay, it’s promising, let’s give it a try. I was just annoyed really, because from what I understand based on all your posts here, it seems to me like you are still have not gotten over with the decision to use BRT instead of LRT/MRT. I believed Sir Zid have done everything he could already, explaining every possible based on technicalities. If you just go over, read and understand all the information being presented here, maybe you will be enlightened .

In response to the Intersection problem, let me post my dreamed solution for that: “why not use an underground tunnel or just simply have a fly over intended only for BRT in a case of intersection?”. Tunnel specifically in the Fuente Osmena Circle with entry and exit points for riders maybe inside/outside the circle, I think this is worth imagining.

But anyway, BRT is still on FS stage, maybe they have a better solution for this, we’ll just wait, okay?

dong moon's eye.. good luck on your dream solution bai!

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by MatudNilaBaby

mas gamay siguro ang gasto sa fly over kaysa tunnel. i have seen a bus stop nga flyover diri sa metro transit system nila. so dunay morag ramp nga magsaka ang bus kon moabot na sa intersection. mosaka sa taas asa didto i unload ang mga pasahero which will make the pedestrian lanes under it less congested. inig human mudolhog nalang pud ang bus ngadto sa regular road unya ang mga pasahero monaog nalang pud via stairs or escalator. possible na imong idea and fuente osmena is the ideal place kay may wide space pa siya although unsa naman kaha ang looks sa fuente kon dunay flyover sa duol sa eskina. unless kon duna gyud aesthetic design sa flyover nga maka enhance sa look sa area.

correct!

[Moon's Eye]

Originally Posted by archerfish

dong moon's eye.. good luck on your dream solution bai!

at least i'm offering a solution here

no comment....

[Moon's Eye]

[QOUTE]Originally Posted by MatudNilaBaby
mas gamay siguro ang gasto sa fly over kaysa tunnel. i have seen a bus stop nga flyover diri sa metro transit system nila. so dunay morag ramp nga magsaka ang bus kon moabot na sa intersection. mosaka sa taas asa didto i unload ang mga pasahero which will make the pedestrian lanes under it less congested. inig human mudolhog nalang pud ang bus ngadto sa regular road unya ang mga pasahero monaog nalang pud via stairs or escalator. possible na imong idea and fuente osmena is the ideal place kay may wide space pa siya although unsa naman kaha ang looks sa fuente kon dunay flyover sa duol sa eskina. unless kon duna gyud aesthetic design sa flyover nga maka enhance sa look sa area.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by archerfish

correct!

Yes, correct unya gamay sad gasto if ang whole stretch from Bulacao to Jones or all the way to Mandaue kay overhead train tracks

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by Moon's Eye

Yes, correct unya gamay sad gasto if ang whole stretch from Bulacao to Jones or all the way to Mandaue kay overhead train tracks

Kata-as gud ana bai! Mao nay "gamay" nimo? "irony" or plain language?

[Moon's Eye]

Originally Posted by Parchie

Kata-as gud ana bai! Mao nay "gamay" nimo? "irony" or plain language?

dili ba ubyos

naa man gud nangutana (usa ka forumer dire MRT/LRT advocate) unsaon kuno pag sulbad sa intersection problem if using BRT, then ako tubag kay tunnel or overpass, nya naa ni comment nga okay pero mahal lang daw ang tunnel. Unya kini nga isa ka MRT/LRT advocate ni Agree. Pero kun imo huna2on ang MRT/LRT mag problema sad baya ug intersection, unya unsa man pod solution sa MRT/LRT? Mao ako gi tubag nga gamay ra pod ug gasto kong ang whole stretch kay i-overhead train tracks. Lain man sad kaau kong sa intersection lang ang overhead track, murag ni sakay ta caterpillar ani sa kanang naay pista2. dbah?

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by archerfish

for me bai i would prefer to have one like these from north to south of cebu island..

Buses and Trucks are the surge of road maintenance and road safety no matter where or what stretch we're talking about.

We MUST shift to passenger and freight rail capacity throughout the country and make rail freight competitive and enforce truck restrictions; eg. like weight loading restrictions, etc..

Trucks should be only the local delivery method of choice. For a well-functioning national road network, long-distance freight needs to use rail as transport method of choice. that is what advance economies are doing.. we should learn from them too.

[BeaverQube]

Originally Posted by archerfish

Buses and Trucks are the surge of road maintenance and road safety no matter where or what stretch we're talking about.

We MUST shift to passenger and freight rail capacity throughout the country and make rail freight competitive and enforce truck restrictions; eg. like weight loading restrictions, etc..

Trucks should be only the local delivery method of choice. For a well-functioning national road network, long-distance freight needs to use rail as transport method of choice. that is what advance economies are doing.. we should learn from them too.

Aren't these the trains running now to Bicol? (di ba donated ang mga 'to ng Japan?)

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by Moon's Eye

dili ba ubyos

naa man gud nangutana (usa ka forumer dire MRT/LRT advocate) unsaon kuno pag sulbad sa intersection problem if using BRT, then ako tubag kay tunnel or overpass, nya naa ni comment nga okay pero mahal lang daw ang tunnel. Unya kini nga isa ka MRT/LRT advocate ni Agree. Pero kun imo huna2on ang MRT/LRT mag problema sad baya ug intersection, unya unsa man pod solution sa MRT/LRT? Mao ako gi tubag nga gamay ra pod ug gasto kong ang whole stretch kay i-overhead train tracks. Lain man sad kaau kong sa intersection lang ang overhead track, murag ni sakay ta caterpillar ani sa kanang naay pista2. dbah?

kay libre man magdamgo, subway is the solution!, walay eyesore kay obviously underground man tanan hasta stations. unya to solve intersections, build multilevel underground tracks. para convenient sa mga cebuano, build also underground malls sa major stations. unya buhat sad ta ug maglev para sa byahe to santander or bogo or daan bantayan. pun-an pa gyud nato ug dedicated freight rail para sa mga utanon, bisag 100 freight cars lang for each locomotive, OK na.

mura man pud ug japan ug shanghai! para sa mga nagdamgo, money is not the issue.

.... but i need to wake up now.

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by vishaya

kay libre man magdamgo, subway is the solution!, walay eyesore kay obviously underground man tanan hasta stations. unya to solve intersections, build multilevel underground tracks. para convenient sa mga cebuano, build also underground malls sa major stations. unya buhat sad ta ug maglev para sa byahe to santander or bogo or daan bantayan. pun-an pa gyud nato ug dedicated freight rail para sa mga utanon, bisag 100 freight cars lang for each locomotive, OK na.

mura man pud ug japan ug shanghai! para sa mga nagdamgo, money is not the issue.

.... but i need to wake up now.

yes you need to wake up bai kay grabe ang traffic sa gawas..ma late ka sa trabaho nimo dong!

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by archerfish

yes you need to wake up bai kay grabe ang traffic sa gawas..ma late ka sa trabaho nimo dong!

pagla-literal man nimo noy oi!

there's no traffic issues from where I am, moreover, I work 'flex time', I can go to work anytime i want.

sorry for the OT folks...

[archerfish]

mao lagi sir..dili ko kasing bright nimo LOL! ah! ahente diay ka og insurance siguro sir! or basin model kaha.. did you ride the train sir? or did you ride the bus?

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by archerfish

mao lagi sir..dili ko kasing bright nimo LOL! ah! ahente diay ka og insurance siguro sir! or basin model kaha.. did you ride the train sir? or did you ride the bus?

Ako la'y tubag bai! Did you walk ra bai! hehehehe

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by Parchie

Ako la'y tubag bai! Did you walk ra bai! hehehehe

nanghuwan ra ko ug lana sa naga bai. (no offense sa mga taga-naga ha!)

bitaw, back to topic na. nilihis man - mura man ug padung personal issues na kung tubayan (which is irrelevant and very immature to engage with).

i will try to answer the last question though: I did rode LRT in Manila back then (there was only one line that time, Baclaran - Monumento). It's nice when you're in the train (above ground - but it ruined the whole Taft avenue on street level - especially the street level of Carriedo station and nearby stations). I also rode subways and train lines in Japan extensively (daily commute) and I really like it - especially the Shinkansen (bullet train). I like the tram and trains in Germany too. I rode trains and buses (both greyhound and city transit) in north america. I also tried all kinds of buses - from high end middle east buses (volvo's and mercedes benz), buses in philippines, south america, even buses in rural vietnam (riding with chickens, frogs and everything else).

to drive the point - yes, i know (and rode) different types of transport sytems. if it is only based on personal preference, it would be nice for Cebu to have a 'properly planned' advance train transporation systems similar to developed countries. As discussed oved and over again here in SSC, the costs associated with such sytems is 'prohibitive' (as pointed by someone before - was it you Parchie?) so why are we still insisting on it? it is becoming irritating to go back again and again in circles with the same arguments. lolo pa nako pasultihon, 'mura na ta ug tyubibo ani'.

i do believe in due time we will have such systems (the optimist in me) if our economy remains on track as it is now, fifteen, twenty years maybe?

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by vishaya

nanghuwan ra ko ug lana sa naga bai. (no offense sa mga taga-naga ha!)

bitaw, back to topic na. nilihis man - mura man ug padung personal issues na kung tubayan (which is irrelevant and very immature to engage with).

i will try to answer the last question though: I did rode LRT in Manila back then (there was only one line that time, Baclaran - Monumento). It's nice when you're in the train (above ground - but it ruined the whole Taft avenue on street level - especially the street level of Carriedo station and nearby stations). I also rode subways and train lines in Japan extensively (daily commute) and I really like it - especially the Shinkansen (bullet train). I like the tram and trains in Germany too. I rode trains and buses (both greyhound and city transit) in north america. I also tried all kinds of buses - from high end middle east buses (volvo's and mercedes benz), buses in philippines, south america, even buses in rural vietnam (riding with chickens, frogs and everything else).

to drive the point - yes, i know (and rode) different types of transport sytems. if it is only based on personal preference, it would be nice for Cebu to have a 'properly planned' advance train transporation systems similar to developed countries. As discussed oved and over again here in SSC, the costs associated with such sytems is 'prohibitive' (as pointed by someone before - was it you Parchie?) so why are we still insisting on it? it is becoming irritating to go back again and again in circles with the same arguments. lolo pa nako pasultihon, 'mura na ta ug tyubibo ani'.

i do believe in due time we will have such systems (the optimist in me) if our economy remains on track as it is now, fifteen, twenty years maybe?

I think it was the BRT main proponent, Engr. Villarete who spelled-out the cost-benefits aspects of having train systems here and on the BRT thread, sir. If my memory serves me right, I was asking for your definitions of some terms in relation to projects go, no-go criteria specifically your statement on having policy decision-makers with "feet planted on the ground". The point I was driving at is that whatever projects aimed at public service should be pursued even if the EIIR/ FIIR are not that rosy. How then are they to provide public service if all they see is money in return? If public money is for the public service, that is.

The fact is, most public agency managers are losing the "public" portion of public service. Government officers think like business managers and lean on the business/money aspect of each project proposals; they avoid measurements on the intangible and sometimes unseen "public service" values. I surfed the internet and found this fitting "cut' n paste":

"private sector managers are more apt to support budget decisions made with analysis and less likely to support them when bargaining is applied. Public sector managers are less likely to support budget decisions backed by analysis and more likely to support those that are derived from bargaining with agency people." - Paul C. Nutt, (2006 - PMRA)

Above-posted differences are somehow merged into one, with the entry of business-oriented managers into our public offices; e.g. most of them count the beans and discard "public service" as part of their decision-making considerations. I was looking for some answers as to the why's on this abrupt changes!

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by Parchie

Ako la'y tubag bai! Did you walk ra bai! hehehehe

[archerfish]

[QUOTE=Parchie;81478128]I think it was the BRT main proponent, Engr. Villarete who spelled-out the cost-benefits aspects of having train systems here and on the BRT thread, sir. If my memory serves me right, I was asking for your definitions of some terms in relation to projects go, no-go criteria specifically your statement on having policy decision-makers with "feet planted on the ground". The point I was driving at is that whatever projects aimed at public service should be pursued even if the EIIR/ FIIR are not that rosy. How then are they to provide public service if all they see is money in return? If public money is for the public service, that is.

The fact is, most public agency managers are losing the "public" portion of public service. Government officers think like business managers and lean on the business/money aspect of each project proposals; they avoid measurements on the intangible and sometimes unseen "public service" values. I surfed the internet and found this fitting "cut' n paste":

"private sector managers are more apt to support budget decisions made with analysis and less likely to support them when bargaining is applied. Public sector managers are less likely to support budget decisions backed by analysis and more likely to support those that are derived from bargaining with agency people." - Paul C. Nutt, (2006 - PMRA)

Above-posted differences are somehow merged into one, with the entry of business-oriented managers into our public offices; e.g. most of them count the beans and discard "public service" as part of their decision-making considerations. I was looking for some answers as to the why's on this abrupt changes![/QUOTE]

maybe because a lot of them finished MBA courses here and there? there are some government executives taking up courses too at Asian Institute of Management(AIM). and you know what is being taught there right? it is how to make lots of money efficiently..and effortlessly!

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by archerfish

maybe because a lot of them finished MBA courses here and there? there are some government executives taking up courses too at Asian Institute of Management(AIM). and you know what is being taught there right? it is how to make lots of money efficiently..and effortlessly!

Hehehe. Ug MBA lang, morag kulang, IMO. Masters in Public Administration (MPA) unta ang mas ha-um alang sa public sector "managers to be" or aspiring public agency officers.