daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Philippine Forums > Around the Philippines > Transport, Urban Planning and Infrastructure > Urban Planning



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 15th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #3701
vishaya
P.Eng., Structural
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cebu; British Columbia (et alibi)
Posts: 157
Likes (Received): 139

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
I think it was the BRT main proponent, Engr. Villarete who spelled-out the cost-benefits aspects of having train systems here and on the BRT thread, sir. If my memory serves me right, I was asking for your definitions of some terms in relation to projects go, no-go criteria specifically your statement on having policy decision-makers with "feet planted on the ground". The point I was driving at is that whatever projects aimed at public service should be pursued even if the EIIR/ FIIR are not that rosy. How then are they to provide public service if all they see is money in return? If public money is for the public service, that is.

The fact is, most public agency managers are losing the "public" portion of public service. Government officers think like business managers and lean on the business/money aspect of each project proposals; they avoid measurements on the intangible and sometimes unseen "public service" values. I surfed the internet and found this fitting "cut' n paste":
"private sector managers are more apt to support budget decisions made with analysis and less likely to support them when bargaining is applied. Public sector managers are less likely to support budget decisions backed by analysis and more likely to support those that are derived from bargaining with agency people." - Paul C. Nutt, (2006 - PMRA)
Above-posted differences are somehow merged into one, with the entry of business-oriented managers into our public offices; e.g. most of them count the beans and discard "public service" as part of their decision-making considerations. I was looking for some answers as to the why's on this abrupt changes!
enlighten me on this one... and let's take BRT as a reference, are you implying that it does not provide "public service"? or "public service" is not a big factor (if not nil) for its implementation? or are we just muddling the issue of sustainablity?
__________________
...nanghinaot nga puhon mulambo pag-ayo ang akong pinalanggang sugbu, uban ang panginabuhi sa mga uyamot kung kaigsoonang bisaya...

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott

Last edited by vishaya; July 15th, 2011 at 10:13 PM.
vishaya no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old July 15th, 2011, 10:28 PM   #3702
vishaya
P.Eng., Structural
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cebu; British Columbia (et alibi)
Posts: 157
Likes (Received): 139

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerfish View Post
Buses and Trucks are the surge of road maintenance and road safety no matter where or what stretch we're talking about.

We MUST shift to passenger and freight rail capacity throughout the country and make rail freight competitive and enforce truck restrictions; eg. like weight loading restrictions, etc..

Trucks should be only the local delivery method of choice. For a well-functioning national road network, long-distance freight needs to use rail as transport method of choice. that is what advance economies are doing.. we should learn from them too.

for such an island with only ~225kms distance north to south and without any major industry that requires multiple rail cars traveling north to south for their cargo, do you honestly believe we need a freight rail for Cebu?

unsa may atong ikarga ana? tangkong gikan sa bantayan para itumod sa santander?
__________________
...nanghinaot nga puhon mulambo pag-ayo ang akong pinalanggang sugbu, uban ang panginabuhi sa mga uyamot kung kaigsoonang bisaya...

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott
vishaya no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:51 AM   #3703
cebuboi
ThE RefLeX..ThE DrEaMeR..
 
cebuboi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the unknown
Posts: 880
Likes (Received): 166

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post
for such an island with only ~225kms distance north to south and without any major industry that requires multiple rail cars traveling north to south for their cargo, do you honestly believe we need a freight rail for Cebu?

unsa may atong ikarga ana? tangkong gikan sa bantayan para itumod sa santander?

hmmm...sakto pud pero mas maayo siguro nga dili lang freighter train pede siguro nga dual purpose i mean commuter and freighter train...mas beneficial pa.
__________________
"A Bird In A Hand Is Better Than A Hundred Still Flying"
Our Journey...
Our Choice...
Our Freedom...
cebuboi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #3704
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
Hehehe. Ug MBA lang, morag kulang, IMO. Masters in Public Administration (MPA) unta ang mas ha-um alang sa public sector "managers to be" or aspiring public agency officers.
ideally it should be.. i do hope more government officials will even try to finish an MPA program at some colleges and universities. or even just some short courses at Development Academy of the Phils (DAP).
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #3705
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuboi View Post
hmmm...sakto pud pero mas maayo siguro nga dili lang freighter train pede siguro nga dual purpose i mean commuter and freighter train...mas beneficial pa.
this is the kind of thinking that we should try to emulate.. YES! exactly! a combination of passenger and freight will work within the island of cebu.

aside from passengers unsa pay pwede ikarga from bantayan to santander? ha ha! kasayon ana tubagon..he he!

how about..bato, buhangin, semento, mais, manok, mamoy, maka, turista, etc..

Last edited by archerfish; July 17th, 2011 at 10:13 AM.
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #3706
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeLasallian View Post


All-Filipino automated guideway transit system soon to be in UP\

abs-cbnNEWS.com
Posted at 07/17/2011 9:46 AM | Updated as of 07/17/2011 9:46 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The first all-Filipino mass transport system dubbed the Automated Guideway Transit (AGT) system will soon be built on the Diliman campus of the University of the Philippines (UP).

On Monday, July 18, UP will sign a memorandum of agreement with the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) and the Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) to formally set UP Diliman as the site of the prototype of the AGT.

A groundbreaking ceremony at the corner of Emilio Jacinto Street and Lakandala Street in the campus will immediately follow.

The event is a result of a Memorandum of Understanding signed by UP and DOST last January, which specifies that the AGT prototype will have 2 60-passenger coaches running on one track.

The AGT is expected to play an important role in the UP community and in the study of alternative mass transport systems, said UP in a statement.



DOST Secretary Mario Montejo earlier said that the cost of studying and creating a local AGT system is a lot cheaper at one-fifth of the cost of importing a unit from abroad.

The local AGT system is also seen as a peek into the future of mass transport systems made by Filipinos.

..
where is the feasibility study for this?

i hope they can put one in mactan island too!

Last edited by archerfish; July 17th, 2011 at 10:16 AM.
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #3707
Sleepwalker
Plug 'n Play
 
Sleepwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cebu, Las Islas Filipinas
Posts: 2,732
Likes (Received): 1030

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerfish View Post
where is the feasibility study for this?

i hope they can put one in mactan island too!
For the comfort of the chosen few!!!
__________________
Come Visit My Cebu! Come Visit My Philippines!
Sleepwalker está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #3708
makatiprime
BANNED
 
makatiprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,202
Likes (Received): 0

soon, monorail in up is our jumpstart to create many monorail system all over the philippines, the cost of this is a little more expensive than having a bus
makatiprime no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2011, 03:45 AM   #3709
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,305
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post
enlighten me on this one... and let's take BRT as a reference, are you implying that it does not provide "public service"? or "public service" is not a big factor (if not nil) for its implementation? or are we just muddling the issue of sustainablity?
We can't say anything about BRT yet since it has not bloomed/come into fruition. That would be speculative and improper.

My point was on the way things are being run. Public service should have goals for "serving the greater public", accountable to the public (not buck passing), etc. These, and many other things are marginalized by principles of business management, IMHO. The in-thing right now is for heads managing public agencies practicing management styles similar to running businesses. That would be worse than having an entirely privately-managed service delivery. Imagine yourself at the shorter end of the rod for a public service provided by a government agency and you complain about it; only to be told that the agency decided they can't satisfy you because blah, blah , blah . . that would too costly! Or, imagine a government agency junking an innovative proposal that could provide solutions to problems (delivery of public service) just because a business analysis says it will not bring "profit"!(the business bottom-line).

I hope you got what I am driving at. We know money is always a stumbling block, but hey, did we not build bridges of little socio-economic impacts in the past? I know of a long road project built on piers above rice paddies too. But I didn't hear people say it' costly!

A true fact, service can be sourced from the government (public) or other institutions (private). If the service is provided by the private sector, people just have to look for substitute services from other providers if it is found unsatisfactory. But with a public agency, you have to bear with it as it is the legally-mandated agency to serve the people (monopolistic character). That should be true with government staying out of businesses and focused on public service delivery.

On sustainability, that can be achieved through grants/donations from philantrophists, government subsidy and earned revenue. But donations and government subsidies should be avoided as financial sources of governmental projects operations! Self-sufficiency is better. Earned revenues being part of the project conceptualization should provide for continuous operation of public service project. Whatever financing mode the government chooses, service to the public should be the utmost goal, in my own opinion.
__________________
"For want of a nail, the horse's shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. And for want of a battle, the kingdom was lost." - George Herbert wrote in 1640. A small error leads to bigger ones and causes ships to sink!
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #3710
vishaya
P.Eng., Structural
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cebu; British Columbia (et alibi)
Posts: 157
Likes (Received): 139

Quote:
Originally Posted by archerfish View Post
this is the kind of thinking that we should try to emulate.. YES! exactly! a combination of passenger and freight will work within the island of cebu.

aside from passengers unsa pay pwede ikarga from bantayan to santander? ha ha! kasayon ana tubagon..he he!

how about..bato, buhangin, semento, mais, manok, mamoy, maka, turista, etc..
i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a freight train from bantayan is required to transport those (add passenger rail cars if you want).

you can do better than that to reinforce your arguments.
__________________
...nanghinaot nga puhon mulambo pag-ayo ang akong pinalanggang sugbu, uban ang panginabuhi sa mga uyamot kung kaigsoonang bisaya...

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott

Last edited by vishaya; July 19th, 2011 at 12:57 AM.
vishaya no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2011, 12:58 AM   #3711
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,305
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post
i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a train from bantayan is required to supply them.
Thinking out-of-the-box, I see that it is possible for a railway system to be used not to supply goods to Cebu but using that rail as trans-shipment path! E.g. Dumaguete doesn't have enough berthing spaces for ships which Cebu does. Negros could course thru its produce by rail efficiently and fast through that railway into ships at Cebu Ports. Also, Bantayan could have lots of fish but doesn't have a big local market. The fish businessmen could have their fish sold in the city or sent to where they needed to be sent. Just imagining though.
__________________
"For want of a nail, the horse's shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. And for want of a battle, the kingdom was lost." - George Herbert wrote in 1640. A small error leads to bigger ones and causes ships to sink!
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2011, 01:13 AM   #3712
vishaya
P.Eng., Structural
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cebu; British Columbia (et alibi)
Posts: 157
Likes (Received): 139

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchie View Post
Thinking out-of-the-box, I see that it is possible for a railway system to be used not to supply goods to Cebu but using that rail as trans-shipment path! E.g. Dumaguete doesn't have enough berthing spaces for ships which Cebu does. Negros could course thru its produce by rail efficiently and fast through that railway into ships at Cebu Ports. Also, Bantayan could have lots of fish but doesn't have a big local market. The fish businessmen could have their fish sold in the city or sent to where they needed to be sent. Just imagining though.
then what you need is build better ports, eliminate an expensive freight rail 'trans-shipment path' and free-up real estates. we are not looking for 6m drafts for inter-island shipping and the type of goods we have. of course these ports can also service passenger vessels, leisure crafts etc.
__________________
...nanghinaot nga puhon mulambo pag-ayo ang akong pinalanggang sugbu, uban ang panginabuhi sa mga uyamot kung kaigsoonang bisaya...

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott

Last edited by vishaya; July 19th, 2011 at 01:22 AM.
vishaya no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 20th, 2011, 01:23 AM   #3713
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post
i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a freight train from bantayan is required to transport those (add passenger rail cars if you want).
.....
maybe i can be both!

tunnel vision again..he he! aside from bantayan and santander, what about the other towns/municipalities along the rail corridor? don't they need something from metropolitan cebu that needs to be transported too and vice versa? and we are not considering passengers yet.

so you think santander has everything already? how about suka, toyo, asukal, lansang, banig, beer, cooking oil, ice cream, etc, etc..

what about the needs of students in nearby dumaguete!..hmnn.. notebook, ballpen, lapis, dvd, papel, eraser, rotring 1, 3, 5, kumot, etc.

for siquijor..maybe bat wings, lana, silhig, etc..


Quote:
you can do better than that to reinforce your arguments
i will just show you a video to make you happy sir!

Last edited by archerfish; July 20th, 2011 at 01:47 AM.
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 20th, 2011, 06:06 AM   #3714
vishaya
P.Eng., Structural
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cebu; British Columbia (et alibi)
Posts: 157
Likes (Received): 139



now you're becoming childish, obviously running out of arguments...
__________________
...nanghinaot nga puhon mulambo pag-ayo ang akong pinalanggang sugbu, uban ang panginabuhi sa mga uyamot kung kaigsoonang bisaya...

Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott
vishaya no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 20th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #3715
Parchie
Registered User
 
Parchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,305
Likes (Received): 645

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post
then what you need is build better ports, eliminate an expensive freight rail 'trans-shipment path' and free-up real estates. we are not looking for 6m drafts for inter-island shipping and the type of goods we have. of course these ports can also service passenger vessels, leisure crafts etc.
Sad to say, 72 port projects contracted to the French was dropped by Aquino. Goodbye to our dreams of having more and better ports!
__________________
"For want of a nail, the horse's shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. And for want of a battle, the kingdom was lost." - George Herbert wrote in 1640. A small error leads to bigger ones and causes ships to sink!
Parchie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 05:22 AM   #3716
flesh_is_weak
Oberste Richter
 
flesh_is_weak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canadian Northwest Passage
Posts: 1,859
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by makatiprime View Post
soon, monorail in up is our jumpstart to create many monorail system all over the philippines, the cost of this is a little more expensive than having a bus
monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work
flesh_is_weak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 05:38 AM   #3717
jochval
Urban Geek
 
jochval's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cebu, Philippines
Posts: 2,951
Likes (Received): 281

unsa naman tong plan sa una nga underwater tunnel sa mainland cebu to mactan island?
__________________
Proud Bisdak! Ceboom!!
........\m/(>_<)\m/.......
jochval no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 06:41 AM   #3718
zidlakan
Paul Villarete
 
zidlakan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lapu-lapu City
Posts: 1,215
Likes (Received): 124

Quote:
Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak View Post
monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work
actually, universities, too, it should be okay, considering the costs, ridership,
use, travel time, and economic/financial feasibility (yes, these are considered
too, that's why they're feasible in amusements parks).
__________________
zidlakan, knight of jelme
also known as Paul Villarete ... General Manager, Mactan-Cebu International Airport Authority (MCIAA)
Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC)


for any issue and concern, you may contact me at paul@villarete.com . . . . . for updates on the Cebu City BRT Project, check http://cebu-brt.com/forum
zidlakan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 10:32 AM   #3719
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak View Post
monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work
wow! another expert opinion..

if the australians would listen to you, they should not have built the monorail in their CBD? ha ha! i dont blame your ignorance..maybe in your place there in canada you only see it at the amusement parks ..you have access to the internet pls. educate yourself some more!

here is a picture of that nice monorail in Sydney. i rode on it a few years back and it was full of people on thier morning commute to the office when i happened to ride in it..



here is a video too..


and a video from other cities and countries..and see if it is only in amusement parks..

Last edited by archerfish; July 21st, 2011 at 10:38 AM.
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 10:37 AM   #3720
archerfish
Registered User
 
archerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishaya View Post


now you're becoming childish, obviously running out of arguments...
arent those i wrote above good enough? ha ha! basin sir gusto pa nimo in APA format pa!
archerfish no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
cebu

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu