Cebú Infrastructure and Urban Planning

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by Parchie

I think it was the BRT main proponent, Engr. Villarete who spelled-out the cost-benefits aspects of having train systems here and on the BRT thread, sir. If my memory serves me right, I was asking for your definitions of some terms in relation to projects go, no-go criteria specifically your statement on having policy decision-makers with "feet planted on the ground". The point I was driving at is that whatever projects aimed at public service should be pursued even if the EIIR/ FIIR are not that rosy. How then are they to provide public service if all they see is money in return? If public money is for the public service, that is.

The fact is, most public agency managers are losing the "public" portion of public service. Government officers think like business managers and lean on the business/money aspect of each project proposals; they avoid measurements on the intangible and sometimes unseen "public service" values. I surfed the internet and found this fitting "cut' n paste":

"private sector managers are more apt to support budget decisions made with analysis and less likely to support them when bargaining is applied. Public sector managers are less likely to support budget decisions backed by analysis and more likely to support those that are derived from bargaining with agency people." - Paul C. Nutt, (2006 - PMRA)

Above-posted differences are somehow merged into one, with the entry of business-oriented managers into our public offices; e.g. most of them count the beans and discard "public service" as part of their decision-making considerations. I was looking for some answers as to the why's on this abrupt changes!

enlighten me on this one... and let's take BRT as a reference, are you implying that it does not provide "public service"? or "public service" is not a big factor (if not nil) for its implementation? or are we just muddling the issue of sustainablity?

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by archerfish

Buses and Trucks are the surge of road maintenance and road safety no matter where or what stretch we're talking about.

We MUST shift to passenger and freight rail capacity throughout the country and make rail freight competitive and enforce truck restrictions; eg. like weight loading restrictions, etc..

Trucks should be only the local delivery method of choice. For a well-functioning national road network, long-distance freight needs to use rail as transport method of choice. that is what advance economies are doing.. we should learn from them too.

for such an island with only ~225kms distance north to south and without any major industry that requires multiple rail cars traveling north to south for their cargo, do you honestly believe we need a freight rail for Cebu?

unsa may atong ikarga ana? tangkong gikan sa bantayan para itumod sa santander?

[cebuboi]

Originally Posted by vishaya

for such an island with only ~225kms distance north to south and without any major industry that requires multiple rail cars traveling north to south for their cargo, do you honestly believe we need a freight rail for Cebu?

unsa may atong ikarga ana? tangkong gikan sa bantayan para itumod sa santander?

hmmm...sakto pud pero mas maayo siguro nga dili lang freighter train pede siguro nga dual purpose i mean commuter and freighter train...mas beneficial pa.

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by Parchie

Hehehe. Ug MBA lang, morag kulang, IMO. Masters in Public Administration (MPA) unta ang mas ha-um alang sa public sector "managers to be" or aspiring public agency officers.

ideally it should be.. i do hope more government officials will even try to finish an MPA program at some colleges and universities. or even just some short courses at Development Academy of the Phils (DAP).

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by cebuboi

hmmm...sakto pud pero mas maayo siguro nga dili lang freighter train pede siguro nga dual purpose i mean commuter and freighter train...mas beneficial pa.

this is the kind of thinking that we should try to emulate.. YES! exactly! a combination of passenger and freight will work within the island of cebu.

aside from passengers unsa pay pwede ikarga from bantayan to santander? ha ha! kasayon ana tubagon..he he!

how about..bato, buhangin, semento, mais, manok, mamoy, maka, turista, etc..

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by TheDeLasallian

All-Filipino automated guideway transit system soon to be in UP\

abs-cbnNEWS.com
Posted at 07/17/2011 9:46 AM | Updated as of 07/17/2011 9:46 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The first all-Filipino mass transport system dubbed the Automated Guideway Transit (AGT) system will soon be built on the Diliman campus of the University of the Philippines (UP).

On Monday, July 18, UP will sign a memorandum of agreement with the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) and the Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) to formally set UP Diliman as the site of the prototype of the AGT.

A groundbreaking ceremony at the corner of Emilio Jacinto Street and Lakandala Street in the campus will immediately follow.

The event is a result of a Memorandum of Understanding signed by UP and DOST last January, which specifies that the AGT prototype will have 2 60-passenger coaches running on one track.

The AGT is expected to play an important role in the UP community and in the study of alternative mass transport systems, said UP in a statement.



DOST Secretary Mario Montejo earlier said that the cost of studying and creating a local AGT system is a lot cheaper at one-fifth of the cost of importing a unit from abroad.

The local AGT system is also seen as a peek into the future of mass transport systems made by Filipinos.

..

where is the feasibility study for this?

i hope they can put one in mactan island too!

[Sleepwalker]

Originally Posted by archerfish

where is the feasibility study for this?

i hope they can put one in mactan island too!

For the comfort of the chosen few!!!

[makatiprime]

soon, monorail in up is our jumpstart to create many monorail system all over the philippines, the cost of this is a little more expensive than having a bus

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by vishaya

enlighten me on this one... and let's take BRT as a reference, are you implying that it does not provide "public service"? or "public service" is not a big factor (if not nil) for its implementation? or are we just muddling the issue of sustainablity?

We can't say anything about BRT yet since it has not bloomed/come into fruition. That would be speculative and improper.

My point was on the way things are being run. Public service should have goals for "serving the greater public", accountable to the public (not buck passing), etc. These, and many other things are marginalized by principles of business management, IMHO. The in-thing right now is for heads managing public agencies practicing management styles similar to running businesses. That would be worse than having an entirely privately-managed service delivery. Imagine yourself at the shorter end of the rod for a public service provided by a government agency and you complain about it; only to be told that the agency decided they can't satisfy you because blah, blah , blah . . that would too costly! Or, imagine a government agency junking an innovative proposal that could provide solutions to problems (delivery of public service) just because a business analysis says it will not bring "profit"!(the business bottom-line).

I hope you got what I am driving at. We know money is always a stumbling block, but hey, did we not build bridges of little socio-economic impacts in the past? I know of a long road project built on piers above rice paddies too. But I didn't hear people say it' costly!

A true fact, service can be sourced from the government (public) or other institutions (private). If the service is provided by the private sector, people just have to look for substitute services from other providers if it is found unsatisfactory. But with a public agency, you have to bear with it as it is the legally-mandated agency to serve the people (monopolistic character). That should be true with government staying out of businesses and focused on public service delivery.

On sustainability, that can be achieved through grants/donations from philantrophists, government subsidy and earned revenue. But donations and government subsidies should be avoided as financial sources of governmental projects operations! Self-sufficiency is better. Earned revenues being part of the project conceptualization should provide for continuous operation of public service project. Whatever financing mode the government chooses, service to the public should be the utmost goal, in my own opinion.

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by archerfish

this is the kind of thinking that we should try to emulate.. YES! exactly! a combination of passenger and freight will work within the island of cebu.

aside from passengers unsa pay pwede ikarga from bantayan to santander? ha ha! kasayon ana tubagon..he he!

how about..bato, buhangin, semento, mais, manok, mamoy, maka, turista, etc..

i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a freight train from bantayan is required to transport those (add passenger rail cars if you want).

you can do better than that to reinforce your arguments.

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by vishaya

i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a train from bantayan is required to supply them.

Thinking out-of-the-box, I see that it is possible for a railway system to be used not to supply goods to Cebu but using that rail as trans-shipment path! E.g. Dumaguete doesn't have enough berthing spaces for ships which Cebu does. Negros could course thru its produce by rail efficiently and fast through that railway into ships at Cebu Ports. Also, Bantayan could have lots of fish but doesn't have a big local market. The fish businessmen could have their fish sold in the city or sent to where they needed to be sent. Just imagining though.

[vishaya]

Originally Posted by Parchie

Thinking out-of-the-box, I see that it is possible for a railway system to be used not to supply goods to Cebu but using that rail as trans-shipment path! E.g. Dumaguete doesn't have enough berthing spaces for ships which Cebu does. Negros could course thru its produce by rail efficiently and fast through that railway into ships at Cebu Ports. Also, Bantayan could have lots of fish but doesn't have a big local market. The fish businessmen could have their fish sold in the city or sent to where they needed to be sent. Just imagining though.

then what you need is build better ports, eliminate an expensive freight rail 'trans-shipment path' and free-up real estates. we are not looking for 6m drafts for inter-island shipping and the type of goods we have. of course these ports can also service passenger vessels, leisure crafts etc.

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by vishaya

i'm not sure if you're just playing ignorant or just trying to be amusing - thanks for trying though... but unfortunately your efforts just doesn't work. that is just like saying santander don't have those things you mentioned that you actually believe a freight train from bantayan is required to transport those (add passenger rail cars if you want).
.....

maybe i can be both!

tunnel vision again..he he! aside from bantayan and santander, what about the other towns/municipalities along the rail corridor? don't they need something from metropolitan cebu that needs to be transported too and vice versa? and we are not considering passengers yet.

so you think santander has everything already? how about suka, toyo, asukal, lansang, banig, beer, cooking oil, ice cream, etc, etc..

what about the needs of students in nearby dumaguete!..hmnn.. notebook, ballpen, lapis, dvd, papel, eraser, rotring 1, 3, 5, kumot, etc.

for siquijor..maybe bat wings, lana, silhig, etc..

you can do better than that to reinforce your arguments

i will just show you a video to make you happy sir!

[vishaya]

now you're becoming childish, obviously running out of arguments...

[Parchie]

Originally Posted by vishaya

then what you need is build better ports, eliminate an expensive freight rail 'trans-shipment path' and free-up real estates. we are not looking for 6m drafts for inter-island shipping and the type of goods we have. of course these ports can also service passenger vessels, leisure crafts etc.

Sad to say, 72 port projects contracted to the French was dropped by Aquino. Goodbye to our dreams of having more and better ports!

[flesh_is_weak]

Originally Posted by makatiprime

soon, monorail in up is our jumpstart to create many monorail system all over the philippines, the cost of this is a little more expensive than having a bus

monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work

[jochval]

unsa naman tong plan sa una nga underwater tunnel sa mainland cebu to mactan island?

[zidlakan]

Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak

monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work

actually, universities, too, it should be okay, considering the costs, ridership,
use, travel time, and economic/financial feasibility (yes, these are considered
too, that's why they're feasible in amusements parks).

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak

monorails are best reserved for amusement parks, not cities where people actually live and work

wow! another expert opinion..

if the australians would listen to you, they should not have built the monorail in their CBD? ha ha! i dont blame your ignorance..maybe in your place there in canada you only see it at the amusement parks ..you have access to the internet pls. educate yourself some more!

here is a picture of that nice monorail in Sydney. i rode on it a few years back and it was full of people on thier morning commute to the office when i happened to ride in it..



here is a video too..


and a video from other cities and countries..and see if it is only in amusement parks..

[archerfish]

Originally Posted by vishaya

now you're becoming childish, obviously running out of arguments...

arent those i wrote above good enough? ha ha! basin sir gusto pa nimo in APA format pa!