daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > North East England > Newcastle Metro Area

Newcastle Metro Area For Newcastle, N Tyneside, Gateshead, S Tyneside, South Northumberland



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 16th, 2011, 09:52 PM   #201
Adrian_Swall
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,822
Likes (Received): 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by alf stone View Post
An interesting concept but there's nothing new under the sun. In the early 1970s my grandparents were given temporary accomodation in St. Cuthbert's Village (shudder) while their council house was being renovated. The entrance hall (passage) led in to the kitchen which in turn led to the next level down which contained the main living area and finally to the lower level where the bedrooms were. My grandmother found it very difficult to get used to the idea of going downstairs to bed.
That is the traditional layout but is more and more being challenged nowadays. The Urban Splash design seems fine for singles/couples but probably not families. The main point was that wholesale clearance is not always the right solution and innovative design using the existing buildings has a place. Local authorities always seem to favour 'clearances' even when the local communities are largely against - no democracy.
Adrian_Swall no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old July 16th, 2011, 11:20 PM   #202
alf stone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,150
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian_Swall View Post
That is the traditional layout but is more and more being challenged nowadays. The Urban Splash design seems fine for singles/couples but probably not families. The main point was that wholesale clearance is not always the right solution and innovative design using the existing buildings has a place. Local authorities always seem to favour 'clearances' even when the local communities are largely against - no democracy.
Adrian, I agree with everything you say and I am all for preserving the past especially as I am part of it but I can find no reason whatsover to preserve the likes of Armstrong Street which was a slum when I was a kid in the 50s. Some people have made a serious effort to improve their properties but the majority remained as slums until their demise. I find it hard to keep defending the council's decision on this as I have disagreed with them so much in the past but on this I think they are right. Is this really worth preserving:



I don't know anybody who lived there in recent years but I knew lots of the residents in the 50s and 60s and they all wanted to be out of the place. This is not wholesale clearance but selective clearance, the vast majority of the area is being renovated.
alf stone está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2011, 11:50 PM   #203
growly grace
Registered User
 
growly grace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,573
Likes (Received): 60

Possibly the most interesting post on this forum ever.
growly grace no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #204
Rational Plan
Registered User
 
Rational Plan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Slough
Posts: 3,292
Likes (Received): 280

My Auntie used to live on Dunsmuir Grove back in the 80's and the early 90's. I remember coming back to England with my mum and staying with her sometimes. Those flats consisted of a big front bedroom (my aunt never used because of noise from the street, a narrow living room, and back bedroom and an extension with small kitchen and then bathroom on the back. Not particularly nice housing even then. My aunt thought it was getting rougher back then and was glad when she was entitled to a small over 55's flat in Low Fell.

I always thought you combine two flats together into a House, but they would only make a decent two bedroom. I quite like Gateshead scheme of selective refurbishment and some demolition. Certainly on a recent trip a lot of older terraces look a lot more spick and span than I remember them.

It's a good idea to try and create areas attractive to middles class families and stop them fleeing out to Stanley and Burnopfield. Gateshead best chance is ti try and gentrify Shipley and Coatsworth road. God knows Old Durham road, beacon Lough(shudder), Wrekenton and the Leam are not going anywhere. I feel Gatesheads biggest asset is Saltwell Park, I miss a big Victorian Park and down South they are quite rare.

I wish Gateshead had more jobs, for many reasons. But when I visited for the first time in many years, driving through it struck my sister and I how empty the roads were. I mean the A1 and the Felling Bypass was busy, but everything else felt like a Sunday morning, just an occasional car wafting along or a couple of pedestrians. To my eye half of gatesheads streets seemed strangely half empty. We both felt it was quite odd.
Rational Plan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #205
Adrian_Swall
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,822
Likes (Received): 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by alf stone View Post
Adrian, I agree with everything you say and I am all for preserving the past especially as I am part of it but I can find no reason whatsover to preserve the likes of Armstrong Street which was a slum when I was a kid in the 50s. Some people have made a serious effort to improve their properties but the majority remained as slums until their demise. I find it hard to keep defending the council's decision on this as I have disagreed with them so much in the past but on this I think they are right. Is this really worth preserving:



I don't know anybody who lived there in recent years but I knew lots of the residents in the 50s and 60s and they all wanted to be out of the place. This is not wholesale clearance but selective clearance, the vast majority of the area is being renovated.
Hello Alf,
The street you have featured does look bad but in the West End of Newcastle some properties were offered for £1 with the proviso that people themselves refurbished and renovated the properties and then had to live in them for a set period. I did also see a programme years ago where people were offered properties on this basis and learned building skills as they went along and all helped each other - a sort of self build scheme. These are different ideas and solutions for different areas. Part demolition is one. As long as the locals are part of the decision making then fine.

Regards. A Swall
Adrian_Swall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:07 PM   #206
alf stone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,150
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian_Swall View Post
At the back was an elevated walkway with outside terrace area. The back lane was gated. At the front the road was resurfaced and the streetscape tidied. I think you could perhaps go one step further and knock down every other terrace and create proper gardens at the back. The 'footprint' and layout of the area would be retained along with the community spirit. Time will tell whether any lessons learned from the past have been taken on board?
I used to live in Kelvin Grove and later Rayleigh Grove just a couple of streets along from RP's aunt in Dunsmuir Grove though 20 years earlier and more. The big difference between those streets was that the south side of Kelvin and the north side of Rayleigh were all owned by the same landlord, originally the Co-op. They were, I believe, built for rental to Co-op workers but as the workforce contracted they were let to others like my family. The last I heard they were owned by Newcastle and Whitley Housing Trust and they came up with a novel solution to the back lane problem:



I would have preferred gardens but it is now as wide as the front street and I quite like it. Of course, it can only happen if somebody owns all of the back to back terraces or the council gets involved. It is certainly an improvement on the dirty back lane that I remember. The Co-op may have had faults as a retailer as mentioned elsewhere but as landlords they were excellent and all the houses were updated in the early 60s with the addition of bathrooms and indoor toilets but I don't think we got central heating at that stage.
alf stone está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #207
elliott
Registered User
 
elliott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 800
Likes (Received): 8

Until recently I lived just below Saltwell Park and obv spent most of my teens/early 20's only a few streets from Armstrong Street (upper section, lower part is quite nice) and I have no qualms about it being erased from history. The housing stock was poor, would have cost too much to repair. And the top part had a stigma in the area whilst people were still living there as being full of dealers, thieves and vagrants. Some people I know who lived on the lower part of Armstrong Street hated having to walk through it to get a bottle of milk etc.
elliott no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #208
AngerOfTheNorth
Architect
 
AngerOfTheNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne/London
Posts: 3,520
Likes (Received): 97

No problem Adrian!

For what it's worth, the reason why demolition is so often prefered is because (bizarrely) there is VAT on materials for the renovation of an existing property, but not those for a new-build. Sadly, this usually makes it cheaper to demolish housing and rebuild it than to do a serious renovation. Chimney Pot Park only happened due to a huge grant from the local council if I remember rightly.

There's been pressure on the government to reverse this for a looooong time, but they still resist. How very green of them (the carbon involved in a building is an incredible amount).

Also, renovation is pretty expensive and invasive. If you want to get an old terraced house up to vaguely modern standards you often need to move the family out, rip out everything (including the floors often) back to a shell, before insulating it internally and then rebuilding the floors, electrics, lighting etc... As I say, this is often as expensive as demolition and a newbuild - plus many argue that the new-build will have a longer life expectancy from that point.

My argument, personally, is that if the housing is demolished you should stick to something very close to the same street pattern, if not the exact same one. Cities should evolve, not be smashed up and completely rebuilt in a totally different way unfamiliar to local people. Besides, terraces work!
AngerOfTheNorth no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #209
Rational Plan
Registered User
 
Rational Plan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Slough
Posts: 3,292
Likes (Received): 280

The problemm is the council obviously wants to attract families and that means in Gateshead back gardens and parking. Now in theory that could easily mean new stone built terraces. I just wonder if that is too much of a leap up for the area. The nicer terraces are near Saltwell park and the Durham road I just wonder how much they can push that Northwards towards Bensham road. Bensham looks much better than it did in the eighties. That hideous council estate is gone and it looks much more built up than it did before. Eventually if the can push towards the town centre from the west and south eventually the town centre won't feel so cut off. Who knows maybe in 20 years time Gateshead town centre will be a functional centre again.
Rational Plan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2011, 12:37 AM   #210
Kremin
Local Photographer
 
Kremin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Posts: 166
Likes (Received): 1

Anyone any idea what this is?





Kremin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2011, 04:29 PM   #211
alf stone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,150
Likes (Received): 88

Looks like they are putting down the base for a marquee so I would guess it is this:

http://newmediamonthly.co.uk/2011/07...together-2011/
alf stone está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 05:39 PM   #212
Talisker
dE/dm
 
Talisker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,012
Likes (Received): 194

Looks like the care home near Gateshead interchange was on fire recently/last night. The area is cordoned off by the police. Do we need to add 'mysterious care home fire' (MCHF) to the list of unfortunate/convenient conflagrations?



A real shame, looks like it was a nice building.
__________________
There are other Annapurnas in the lives of men - Maurice Herzog
Talisker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #213
Talisker
dE/dm
 
Talisker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,012
Likes (Received): 194



Any ideas what's happening with Derwent House, AKA the Dunston Rocket? There were plans to demolish the building in 2007 and it appears that residents have been moved out. Is the tower still going to be demolished or is it being refurbished?
__________________
There are other Annapurnas in the lives of men - Maurice Herzog
Talisker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:13 PM   #214
Steve Ellwood
Moderator
 
Steve Ellwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne/Whitley Bay
Posts: 13,986
Likes (Received): 787

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisker View Post

Any ideas what's happening with Derwent House, AKA the Dunston Rocket? There were plans to demolish the building in 2007 and it appears that residents have been moved out. Is the tower still going to be demolished or is it being refurbished?
This article from the Newcastle Journal on 13th July 2011 makes mention of its impending demolition - piece is about photographer and author John Grindrod.

http://www.journallive.co.uk/lifesty...1634-29041182/
__________________
Regards

Steve Ellwood
www.steve-ellwood.org.uk
Steve Ellwood está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #215
Talisker
dE/dm
 
Talisker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,012
Likes (Received): 194

Thanks for the prompt reply steve. It certainly looks like they're gearing up for demolition. The area has been cordoned off, portacabins have appeared and the windows around the lower section (and possibly upper section) look to have been replaced with plastic.

Here's another couple of photos:



__________________
There are other Annapurnas in the lives of men - Maurice Herzog
Talisker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #216
Steve Ellwood
Moderator
 
Steve Ellwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne/Whitley Bay
Posts: 13,986
Likes (Received): 787

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisker View Post
Thanks for the prompt reply steve. It certainly looks like they're gearing up for demolition. The area has been cordoned off, portacabins have appeared and the windows around the lower section (and possibly upper section) look to have been replaced with plastic.
I think there would have been something in the press if this was going to be a 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1, timber job, now that would make for a spectacular set of photographs but perhaps it will be done in the same way as Tyne Bridge Tower, under cover
__________________
Regards

Steve Ellwood
www.steve-ellwood.org.uk
Steve Ellwood está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 07:57 PM   #217
merleb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,287
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talisker View Post
Looks like the care home near Gateshead interchange was on fire recently/last night. The area is cordoned off by the police. Do we need to add 'mysterious care home fire' (MCHF) to the list of unfortunate/convenient conflagrations?



A real shame, looks like it was a nice building.

^ Is that the old Windmill Hills School?

.

Last edited by Newcastle Historian; July 26th, 2011 at 11:28 AM.
merleb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 08:31 PM   #218
Newcastle Historian
Moderator and Archivist
 
Newcastle Historian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Posts: 17,825
Likes (Received): 515

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian; January 17th 2011
Demolition starts on historic Dunston Rocket
by Joanne Butcher, Evening Chronicle, January 17th 2011



It has towered over the Tyneside skyline for decades. Today work started on the demolition of Gateshead's Dunston Rocket.

The 29-storey tower block, designed by architect Owen Luder, is being flattened to make way for low-rise homes, shops and community facilities.

Its fall follows the demolition of Gateshad’s infamous Get Carter Car Park, also designed by Luder and made famous by the 1971 Michael Caine film, which was pulled down last year.

Demolition of the Derwent Tower, and nearby maisonettes, is expected to take around 18 months and is being carried out by Birmingham-based contractor Coleman and Company.

But instead of bringing in workers from their West Midlands home, the company decided to recruit a local workforce.

The hope is the tower’s demolition will bring benefits to the area by providing employment and ensuring much of the funding earmarked for the work will remain in the Tyneside area.

And today, the first of those local gangs began stripping out the interior of the 280ft-high block.

The job, which is expected to take a couple of months, will prepare the site before the bulldozers get started on dismantling the exterior.


Read More - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...#ixzz1BIYQfe2W

.

The 4 posts immediately before this one, have been copied here from a discussion currently taking place on the High-rise buildings of Tyneside
thread. The story prior to that (of the demolition plans) has been covered on here.

In one of the copied posts Talisker writes . .

Quote:
The area has been cordoned off, portacabins have appeared and the windows around the lower section (and possibly upper section) look to have been replaced with plastic.
So, it looks like things are about to happen!!

On the 'Tyne Bridge Tower' Thread, we got a lot of photos of the demolition in progress from a number of people (latterly particularly from GBDT).

Does anyone, with a camera, routinely go anywhere near Derwent House?
Newcastle Historian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #219
alf stone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,150
Likes (Received): 88

Steve, you are right the big bang theory is out the window as Gateshead Council says it will take 18 months to complete the job. Looks like they are going to need another awfully big dust sheet.
alf stone está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2011, 03:12 AM   #220
newcastlepubs
Pubwatcher
 
newcastlepubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: 'oop north'
Posts: 6,885
Likes (Received): 257

Quote:
Originally Posted by merleb View Post
^ Is that the old Windmill Hills School?
Yep. Remarkably ablaze though closed because of asbestos. Hmmmm. There's a funny thing.
newcastlepubs no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
development, developments, developments - newc forum, gateshead, newcastle

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu