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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #61
sebvill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringMe View Post
where do u live? for real.. brazil today is one of the most important and Strongest economy in south america, argentina have a great economy but is getting weaker colombia is going to be the same in 3 years so maybe uruguay is weaker than argentina,chile,brasil and colombia

these countries are getting bigger economies because they take the european crisis as an oportunity
We are doing well because Europe is in crisis? What nonsense is that? Latin America have had an excellent decade way back before Europa was in crisis. In fact, a sick Europe doesnt help Latin America at all.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:29 PM   #62
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if in case Sao Paulo was a country it would be the second large in South America...

Sao Paulo
GPD
$550 billion dollars (2008)
HDI 0.833 (2005)
Population 41,252,160

Argentina
GPD
$435.2 billion (2011)
HDI 0.775 (2010)
Population 40,117,096

Chile
GPD
$203.323 billion (2010)
HDI 0.783 (2010)
Population 16,888,760
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #63
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The HDI equation is completely different since last year. You cannot compare São Paulo figures with Argentina or Chile's. About GDP, São Paulo's is about US$ 690 billion in 2010.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong
As far as I'm concerned, many Latin and South American countries are still peripheral countries... they're not even world semiperiphery as South Korea, HK, Taiwan, and Spore in 80s, and China and India now...

A significant part of commodity export from Latin and South American countries are sent to China for processing, while for finance they're of course peripheries of NY, London, Tokyo and perhaps Frankfurt...

Thus, China and India is on their way to be developed countries, while latin and South American countries need to prove themselves as semiperiphery first...
When China and especially India come close to Latin American living standards, I will believe this... For now, what they have is thanks to humongous populations.

Btw, there are 4 top 30 Latin American economies ( including 1 top 10 and 1 top 15)... If Latin America is so peripheral, why does it have countries with higher GDP's than other countries with 3 and 4 times thire population? Furthermore, why are there 4 countries in the top 20 of countries receiving foreign direct investment? If they are so peripheral.. Why are there 3 countries in the list of "top 20 wealth creation 2010" by credit suisse?

Latin American is the next bastion of development, and this is proven with 2 countries reaching developed status according to HDI this year, plus some 5 more reaching it this decade... It will take India some 40 more years, not to mention other emerging countries like Nigeria, Pakistan, Vietnam, Indonesia, South Africa etc...
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #65
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Btw probably Brazil is surpassing the UK in nominal GDP this year to become the Worlds 6th largest economy and in a couple more years it will get over France. Yes, we are very perispherical.

In any case, thats not what this thread is about. Is about development not biggest economies.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #66
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I just realized I'm discussing with a troll with 32 posts

Silly me
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:57 PM   #67
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Not to mention that in 2010 the combined GDP for the region was nominal 5.16 Trillion USD and in PPP 6.27 Trillion USD being of comparable size to China with only a population of 560 million spread out in some 20 countries, compared with china's 1.2 billion people and 1 unified state.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #68
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Interesting data! I had no idea.. Deffinetly Latin America is emerging as a powerful region
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:07 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isakres View Post

So there is no chance for a country to reach development without a "well functioning democracy"? A strong Middle Class and Equal Rights between Men and Women are indeed irreplaceable requirements, im just not sure about democracy....

Anyway, here are the Developing Countries about to reach developed status according to the HDI standards.

(As mentioned before, Poland and Hungary are already considered developed as well as some Gulf Countries in the HDI Rankings).

44 Lithuania 0.783
45 Chile 0.783
46 Argentina 0.775
47 Kuwait 0.771
48 Latvia 0.769
49 Montenegro 0.769
50 Romania 0.767
51 Croatia 0.767
52 Uruguay 0.765
53 Cuba 0.760
54 Palau 0.757
55 Libya 0.755
56 Panama 0.755
57 Saudi Arabia 0.752
58 Mexico 0.750
59 Malaysia 0.744
60 Bulgaria 0.743
61 Trinidad and Tobago 0.736
62 Serbia 0.735
63 Belarus 0.732
64 Costa Rica 0.725
65 Peru 0.723
66 Albania 0.719
67 Russia 0.719
68 Kazakhstan 0.714
69 Azerbaijan 0.713
70 Bosnia and Herzegovina 0.710
71 Ukraine 0.710

A combined computation between PIB Per Capita and HDI would eliminate some anomalies.....well, like Cuba
Are there any currently developed countries that are not well functioning democracies? The closest would likely be Singapore, but it is far from a dictatorship.

And how are Cuba and Libya higher than Mexico and Malaysia on that list? I've been to all of those countries except Libya, and I assure you there is a lot more poverty in Cuba than Mexico or Malaysia.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensingtonian View Post
Are there any currently developed countries that are not well functioning democracies? The closest would likely be Singapore, but it is far from a dictatorship.

And how are Cuba and Libya higher than Mexico and Malaysia on that list? I've been to all of those countries except Libya, and I assure you there is a lot more poverty in Cuba than Mexico or Malaysia.
But Cuba has a long poor life... and way better communist education... I mean that's it, HDI measures health, education and wealth. Cuba is way down in weath means, but it is among developed countries in health and education terms.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #71
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Libya probably isn't that high any longer!
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xvr

But Cuba has a long poor life... and way better communist education... I mean that's it, HDI measures health, education and wealth. Cuba is way down in weath means, but it is among developed countries in health and education terms.
They've changed the HDI recently, it now includes more stuff (but imo is probably worse)
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #73
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ah, that makes sense re: Cuba
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong View Post
As far as I'm concerned, many Latin and South American countries are still peripheral countries... they're not even world semiperiphery as South Korea, HK, Taiwan, and Spore in 80s, and China and India now...

A significant part of commodity export from Latin and South American countries are sent to China for processing, while for finance they're of course peripheries of NY, London, Tokyo and perhaps Frankfurt...

Thus, China and India is on their way to be developed countries, while latin and South American countries need to prove themselves as semiperiphery first...

I think you have a lack of knowledge about Latin Economies and their situation within the global comerce.

Indeed there is a lot of commodity exports currently fueled by China, but industrialization is also taking place in many countries.

I really see Eastern Europe as a more peripherical bloc than Southeast Asia and Latinamerica. At least the last ones are creating new developing hubs and not adhering to an existing one. Even long-US-dependant Mexico is increasing its commerce with its southern neighbours as well as with China.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:33 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensingtonian View Post
ah, that makes sense re: Cuba
Cuba stands tall in Education and Health. They have world class Service in such fields but offered in third world facilities. Cuba is doing good in HDI because of the methodology but it remains very poor in terms of wages and wealthness of its inhabitants. (Thank you Castro).

Anyway, it seems the UN has changed the HDI methodology and will no longer consider Cuba within the study because its considered an exception.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensingtonian View Post
Are there any currently developed countries that are not well functioning democracies? The closest would likely be Singapore, but it is far from a dictatorship.

And how are Cuba and Libya higher than Mexico and Malaysia on that list? I've been to all of those countries except Libya, and I assure you there is a lot more poverty in Cuba than Mexico or Malaysia.
I have always tried to think outside of the box. If currently there arent developed countries (according to western standards) that are not well functioning democracies it doesnt mean it couldnt change in the years to come. Perhaps we can redifine the word Developed in the future (that may include some non-western values) or may find Democracy as outdated.

The case of Cuba has been already explained and despite the bad propaganda about Gadaffi in the Media, the fact is that Lybia has already reached some wealthness and ranked top in Africa since many years ago. Perhaps Gadaffi could do it better for Lybias because or their size (6.5million) and their resources (oil) but they certainly were not that bad.
.
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Mexico, Messico, Mexique, Mexikko, , المكسيك, मेक्सिको, Μεξικό, メキシコ Lebanonمکزیک, 墨西哥, Мексика, Meksiko, 멕시코, מעקסיקא, Meksika, Mexiko, מקסיקו
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Last edited by isakres; October 26th, 2011 at 07:58 PM.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isakres View Post

Anyway, it seems the UN has changed the HDI methodology and will no longer consider Cuba within the study because its considered an exception.
Wrong, at least that won't happen this year. Cuba remains in HDI rank
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #77
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OMG, can't expect more intelligent discussion from you? sure, uh you don't even know what Opera is...

What is China status 10-20 years ago? And look what they achieve now...

Look at South Korea in 60s-70s, compare it with Argentina, for example...
If you're in 60s, you would say Argentina would be the first to achieve a developed status while SK would be a basket case.... BUT now? Where's Argentina? and where's South Korea?

It's not about current condition, it's about what they can achieve...

As I told you, most Latin and South American countries will be stuck in middle income country trap... and please don't blame me for making that prediction...

just look at investment bankers, which countries they see now? BRIC, only Brazil there...
CIVETS, only Colombia there... Next Eleven, only Mexico there...

So, basically, investors are interested in Brazil, Colombia, and Mexico...
where're other Latin/South American countries?

Please don't blame me if your country isn't there, I'm not the one who make that acronym...

why BUTTHURT?
You may not happy that your country isn't on the list, but that's not my fault







Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
GDP per capita

Uruguay --- US$ 11.998
Chile --- US$ 11.827
Brazil --- US$ 10.816
Mexico --- US$ 9.522
Argentina --- US$ 9.131
China --- US$ 4.382
India --- US$ 1.371

HDI

Chile --- 0.783
Argentina --- 0.775
Uruguay --- 0.765
Mexico --- 0.750
Brazil --- 0.699
China --- 0.663
India --- 0.519


Yes, clearly China and India are much closer to reach the developed status... BTW, a list with the tiny Brazilian companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nies_of_Brazil
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:48 PM   #78
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Thanks, you're more sensible to discuss with...

Of course I might be wrong... but that's also images most people have on Latin/South American countries... even within BRIC they're not the same...
Russia, China and India have better position in the world production process...

Even a poor country like India, I bet that most students will choose to study information technology, engineering, and business management in India than in Brazil, for example...they have capacity to improve rapidly... this is the most important thing... People who see the current condition must realize that China and India were nothing when Latin/South American countries had already achieve remarkable position in the world...but look how remarkable their achievements only in a short epriod of time...





Quote:
Originally Posted by isakres View Post
I think you have a lack of knowledge about Latin Economies and their situation within the global comerce.

Indeed there is a lot of commodity exports currently fueled by China, but industrialization is also taking place in many countries.

I really see Eastern Europe as a more peripherical bloc than Southeast Asia and Latinamerica. At least the last ones are creating new developing hubs and not adhering to an existing one. Even long-US-dependant Mexico is increasing its commerce with its southern neighbours as well as with China.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #79
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your dream eh? you think ecoomic growth is stable or even keep increasing?

never heard middle income trap? where's Argentina now? Wasn't it much developed than South Korea?
and where South Korea now?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Motul View Post
When China and especially India come close to Latin American living standards, I will believe this... For now, what they have is thanks to humongous populations.

Btw, there are 4 top 30 Latin American economies ( including 1 top 10 and 1 top 15)... If Latin America is so peripheral, why does it have countries with higher GDP's than other countries with 3 and 4 times thire population? Furthermore, why are there 4 countries in the top 20 of countries receiving foreign direct investment? If they are so peripheral.. Why are there 3 countries in the list of "top 20 wealth creation 2010" by credit suisse?

Latin American is the next bastion of development, and this is proven with 2 countries reaching developed status according to HDI this year, plus some 5 more reaching it this decade... It will take India some 40 more years, not to mention other emerging countries like Nigeria, Pakistan, Vietnam, Indonesia, South Africa etc...
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Old October 26th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong
OMG, can't expect more intelligent discussion from you? sure, uh you don't even know what Opera is...

What is China status 10-20 years ago? And look what they achieve now...

Look at South Korea in 60s-70s, compare it with Argentina, for example...
If you're in 60s, you would say Argentina would be the first to achieve a developed status while SK would be a basket case.... BUT now? Where's Argentina? and where's South Korea?

It's not about current condition, it's about what they can achieve...

As I told you, most Latin and South American countries will be stuck in middle income country trap... and please don't blame me for making that prediction...

just look at investment bankers, which countries they see now? BRIC, only Brazil there...
CIVETS, only Colombia there... Next Eleven, only Mexico there...

So, basically, investors are interested in Brazil, Colombia, and Mexico...
where're other Latin/South American countries?

Please don't blame me if your country isn't there, I'm not the one who make that acronym...

why BUTTHURT?
You may not happy that your country isn't on the list, but that's not my fault
:whisper: Er, his country is there
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