Worst slums in America.....third world or western world?

[eklips]

Originally Posted by old school

Whatever.....
We will have to agree to disagree, because Brazil is not a "European" type country, in my opinion.

Let's move on and get back on topic, please...

Peace...

I might add something to your argument.

Even Europe and the anglosphere (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ) can't be considered "western", in the sense that it is too much of a broad generalization made of very distinct societies. Anglo-saxon common law has very little to do with roman civil law, the secular heritage of a place such as France is closer to that of (supposedly non-western) Turkey then to the US. And too many differences are ignored when we are lumped together into one "civilization".

I think that "westerness" has to be understood as an argument rather than something we essentially are. It is an argument used to construct differences with an "other". At different times this "other" was the "savages" of the continents we were colonizing, the Americas and then Asia an Africa. During the cold war this other was the "east", symbolized by Russia and China, now it is mostly the muslim world. So then we come out and make some bullshit historical constructions pretending that we, from Vancouver to Lisbon are the direct and only heirs of the ancient greek and romans. When we are dealing with ourselves, for example social security issues in France, being "western" or not is a useless concept and unadapted to describe our reality. We only become-so when it is time to legitimize our invasion of Afghanistan (to give an example).

Thus the question of "is latin-America western" is completely unadapted to this region. More precisely, westerness, as an argument, has historically been used within latin-America rather than with outside societies. "Westerness" is an argument that has been used in Latin-America to legitimize things that have done more harm then good such as structural racism, cultural hegemony and self-loathing.

[PaulBP]

chile isnt a western nation, but sadly we are copying some things of the west. i read 2 days ago that chilean people is the second most individualistic people in the world, the first place is for USA. thats sad.

[old school]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

I know USA and I dont like it at all... at all... the culture, the fat people eating fast food everywhere, those who think that Rio de Janeiro is the Capital of Buenos Aires are everywhere...

[old school]

Originally Posted by eklips

I might add something to your argument.

Even Europe and the anglosphere (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ) can't be considered "western", in the sense that it is too much of a broad generalization made of very distinct societies. Anglo-saxon common law has very little to do with roman civil law, the secular heritage of a place such as France is closer to that of (supposedly non-western) Turkey then to the US. And too many differences are ignored when we are lumped together into one "civilization".

I think that "westerness" has to be understood as an argument rather than something we essentially are. It is an argument used to construct differences with an "other". At different times this "other" was the "savages" of the continents we were colonizing, the Americas and then Asia an Africa. During the cold war this other was the "east", symbolized by Russia and China, now it is mostly the muslim world. So then we come out and make some bullshit historical constructions pretending that we, from Vancouver to Lisbon are the direct and only heirs of the ancient greek and romans. When we are dealing with ourselves, for example social security issues in France, being "western" or not is a useless concept and unadapted to describe our reality. We only become-so when it is time to legitimize our invasion of Afghanistan (to give an example).

Thus the question of "is latin-America western" is completely unadapted to this region. More precisely, westerness, as an argument, has historically been used within latin-America rather than with outside societies. "Westerness" is an argument that has been used in Latin-America to legitimize things that have done more harm then good such as structural racism, cultural hegemony and self-loathing.

+10000
The Latin American elites - the SSC types included - use these same arguments in your last sentence. In fact, US business types will tell you that Latinos LOVE doing business with Europeans and let them "walk all over them." All they have to do is invite them (Latino elites) to Paris or London, and then the deal is settled....

[Yuri S Andrade]

As you coudn't back your absurd arguments, now you go with "they're all weird and stupid elitists and therefore I'm much better than them". The bigotry is getting wilder and wilder...

P.S. You don't need to be part of the "elite" to use a computer, ok?

Originally Posted by eklips

Thus the question of "is latin-America western" is completely unadapted to this region. More precisely, westerness, as an argument, has historically been used within latin-America rather than with outside societies. "Westerness" is an argument that has been used in Latin-America to legitimize things that have done more harm then good such as structural racism, cultural hegemony and self-loathing.

Could you prove this or you just made it up based solely in the good old clichés?

Actually, it was in Europe the "Westerness" argument was used to legitimize things like racism, imperialism, nazism, etc.

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

Argentina no, the world in the west is THE WESTERN WORLD... dahhh... even someone with the IQ of Homer Simpsons would know that thats a fact... development or not... thats the truth, or may be not... Homer Simpsons is the example of my last post... ignorance all over "The west world"... face the truth and understand that if we are talking about REAL development we are talking about Swissland not about USA.

No, that's the Western Hemisphere. The Western World is any nation that's technologically and economically modern that concurs with the values of Human Rights, Education, Scientific Achievement, Secularism and Democracy. That wishes for Peace, Unity and Diplomacy.

Argentina may be the all 8. But it's not modern. That's why it's not part of the western world.

While some say that you can be a "Western Nation" without having "western culture" I consider that false.

The Western World itself is it's own culture. Going from "Eastern" (Exact opposite of western) to "Western" is an evolutionary process. As you adopt western policies you gradually gain our culture as well.

How a nation goes through this evolutionary process, however, is just a speculation.

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

Ja,... thats a sign of ignorance... educated people know to feed themselves property...
Good bye Homer Simpson... go and educate yourself a little.

Brilliant post. Have an infraction.

[meaburroperomerio]

Originally Posted by CanadianDemon

No, that's the Western Hemisphere. The Western World is any nation that's technologically and economically modern that concurs with the values of Human Rights, Education, Scientific Achievement, Secularism and Democracy. That wishes for Peace, Unity and Diplomacy.

Argentina may be the all 8. But it's not modern. That's why it's not part of the western world.

While some say that you can be a "Western Nation" without having "western culture" I consider that false.

The Western World itself is it's own culture. Going from "Eastern" (Exact opposite of western) to "Western" is an evolutionary process. As you adopt western policies you gradually gain our culture as well.

How a nation goes through this evolutionary process, however, is just a speculation.

jsjsjsjjsjjajjaja!!! And USA is all that? jajajajjajajaj..... hajajajajajjajajajajajajja

pd. "Its not modern" Who sais? you live in a box,...

[Jennifat]

I find it beautifully poetic when people react to what they perceive as ignorance with petty, resentful statements that reveal their own prejudices. So, which one is the xenophobe here?

Pot, meet kettle.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by hudkina

So wait... Who is generalizing now?

BTW, obesity is a sign of being a Western Nation...

Also the U.S. has defined Western Culture over the last 200 years. If you don't like Western Culture, why are you so adamant you are part of the Western World?

Just to clarify things both Argentina, Chile, and Mexico have an obesity problem as well although not to the extent of the US.

Originally Posted by Jennifat

I find it beautifully poetic when people react to what they perceive as ignorance with petty, resentful statements that reveal their own prejudices. So, which one is the xenophobe here?

Pot, meet kettle.

He/She is not the only one making ignorant comments here. Contrary to popular belief Argentina is not some destitute "third world" backwater as some of you believe, and thanks to their booming economy living standards are in reality pretty close to us as well. And many Argentines and Brazilians contributed to modern science as well such as Luis Leloir and Bernardo Houssay.

[Voltico]

Originally Posted by PaulBP

chile isnt a western nation, but sadly we are copying some things of the west. i read 2 days ago that chilean people is the second most individualistic people in the world, the first place is for USA. thats sad.

If Chile is not western what is it then? the language is western, the religion is western and 95% of the population is either mixed or white...

[old school]

Originally Posted by diablo234

Just to clarify things both Argentina, Chile, and Mexico have an obesity problem as well although not to the extent of the US.



He/She is not the only one making ignorant comments here. Contrary to popular belief Argentina is not some destitute "third world" backwater as some of you believe, and thanks to their booming economy living standards are in reality pretty close to us as well. And many Argentines and Brazilians contributed to modern science as well such as Luis Leloir and Bernardo Houssay.

Oh yeah, check out their HDI score.
Hint: the US of A is in fourth place...

[old school]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

jsjsjsjjsjjajjaja!!! And USA is all that? jajajajjajajaj..... hajajajajajjajajajajajajja

pd. "Its not modern" Who sais? you live in a box,...

And, you live in Tigre??? Isn't that outside the General Paz freeway?? Isn't that where the "bonarenses" live???

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by meaburroperomerio

jsjsjsjjsjjajjaja!!! And USA is all that? jajajajjajajaj..... hajajajajajjajajajajajajja

pd. "Its not modern" Who sais? you live in a box,...

Says the fact that it's still lacking it many technological fields and it's GDP it's not yet in context with western nations.

I have no doubt that Argentina can be a Western Nation.... Just not yet. Maybe in a decade or two.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by old school

Oh yeah, check out their HDI score.
Hint: the US of A is in fourth place...

Reading comprehension must not be one of your strong suits.

Anyways I know the US has a higher HDI score. My point is that Argentina and Chile as well are not impoverished by any means despite what ignorant people in here and in real life say otherwise.

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by Voltico

If Chile is not western what is it then? the language is western, the religion is western and 95% of the population is either mixed or white...

It's Western per se. Just Western South America. It's not a Western Nation till it meets all requirements that I listed above. (Which it does not.)

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by diablo234

Reading comprehension must not be one of your strong suits.

Anyways I know the US has a higher HDI score. My point is that Argentina and Chile as well are not impoverished by any means despite what ignorant people in here and in real life say otherwise.

I agree. I think people look into stuff too much. I mean Chile survived a 8.8 earthquake with little damage. Haiti barely survived a 5.5.

Chile and Argentina gets a bad rep. I don't know why. However, they're still not a western nation, not yet.

[Yuri S Andrade]

Originally Posted by Jennifat

I find it beautifully poetic when people react to what they perceive as ignorance with petty, resentful statements that reveal their own prejudices. So, which one is the xenophobe here?

Pot, meet kettle.

Jenny, you shouldn't be rebuking him as you made pretty similar statements about other countries.

Originally Posted by diablo234

He/She is not the only one making ignorant comments here. Contrary to popular belief Argentina is not some destitute "third world" backwater as some of you believe, and thanks to their booming economy living standards are in reality pretty close to us as well. And many Argentines and Brazilians contributed to modern science as well such as Luis Leloir and Bernardo Houssay.

It's worthless. They believe there's a rigid boundary, where in one side (ranging from Norway to Portugal) every single person is filthy rich and on the other side (ranging from Chile to DR Congo) 99% of people feed on garbage, behave like savages and are exploited by a tiny and weird elite.

For some reason (I wonder why?...), they can only see things on black and white terms.

Originally Posted by CanadianDemon

Says the fact that it's still lacking it many technological fields and it's GDP it's not yet in context with western nations.

I have no doubt that Argentina can be a Western Nation.... Just not yet. Maybe in a decade or two.

"Western country" ≠ "developed country". A non-western country could perfectly be developed (have you ever heard of Japan?). And do you realize Chile standards of live is the same of Portugal's in 2007 and France's in the early 1990's? So France was not western back then?

Western refers to the European culture, it's the Christianity in its secular version. Hence, Latin America is the first Western experiment outside Europe.

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

It's worthless. They believe there's a rigid boundary, where in one side (ranging from Norway to Portugal) every single person is filthy rich and on the other side (ranging from Chile to DR Congo) 99% of people feed on garbage, behave like savages and are exploited by a tiny and weird elite.

For some reason (I wonder why?...), they can only see things on black and white terms.

Agreed. It's ridiculous how people will believe anything without proper research.

[CanadianDemon]

Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade

It's worthless. They believe there's a rigid boundary, where in one side (ranging from Norway to Portugal) every single person is filthy rich and on the other side (ranging from Chile to DR Congo) 99% of people feed on garbage, behave like savages and are exploited by a tiny and weird elite.

For some reason (I wonder why?...), they can only see things on black and white terms.




"Western country" ≠ "developed country". A non-western country could perfectly be developed (have you ever heard of Japan?). And do you realize Chile standards of live is the same of Portugal's in 2007 and France's in the early 1990's? So France was not western back then?

Western refers to the European culture, it's the Christianity in its secular version. Hence, Latin America is the first Western experiment outside Europe.

I disagree. It's hard to define "western world." So I use the requirements I listed to describe what a Western nation is. I refuse to use the definition you use because the whole world would be "western & eastern" then. Religion is and should not describe if a nation is western or not.

I refer to Japan and South Korea as western nations because they fill the quota.

Different culture or not it still follows closely with western values and development. Therefore, it's a western nation. Yes, Argentina had the same GDP of France in 1990 or Portugal in 2007. However, it's still not Technologically or Economically modern.