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Old February 13th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #41
zerozol
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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
^No I meant for Malev the airline, not BUD.
Yes, MalÚv had more than 3 million passengers last year. Since several years, it carried constantly 3-3,3 million passengers per year.

Last edited by zerozol; February 15th, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Schengen didn't destroy anything. Most of these small airlines were protected as local monopolies by the relevant governments. They were never really run as normal businesses.
Liberalization of aviation in Europe brought some normality into otherwise totally screwed market. And lowered prices. Do you guys remember how expensive tickets were in the "old good times", where so called "flag carriers" rulled the sky? Only rich could afford to fly.

I don't cry after any small irrelevant airline. If people want to fly somewhere there will be some airline which will fly them there. What logo/brand/flag it has should be irrelevant.

Although I agree on most of your points, I'd like to say: would you cry if LOT Polish Airlines would go bankrupt, causing to tens of thousends of people losing their job (directly and indirectly - supply chain), and also causing economic gaps in Poland?...

"Flag carrier", or a network carrier airline more precisely (it is irrelevant who is the owner, a state or a private company) is important for economic purposes, first of all.

Network carriers have an important role in business decisions as well (how a big company chooses its regional centre in this or that area of several countries), and are giving earnings through indirect channels to the local economy. Transferring passengers, just to think about 1 thing.

Now that's the case with MalÚv and Budapest Airport as well.

Of course, a sustainable airline is the right choice - not a loss-making one.

(By the way: that's even not a fundamental fact. If you have a state-owned, but loss-making airline, wich makes, let's say, 100 million euros of loss every year, but contributes to the 'almighty' economy with 200 million euros of direct and indirect revenue each year, what is the right choice?... Not to have even the [200-100=] 100 million euros of revenue? And no, other - foreign or low-cost - carriers aren't compensating this amount entirely, thats a fact indeed. Because they don't pay direct taxes for the country - Ryan, Easy, Wizz parent companies are outside of Hungary, but also of Poland - and aren't carrying important transfer passengers via your own HUB.)

MalÚv had several troubles since the collapse of communism (no money, no assets, no own fleet etc.), it brought heavy loans within.

Significant is that on operational basis, the last quarter of 2011 became profitable at MalÚv! (see above the interview on the CAPA-website)

If you think only about this fact, how can one say that such an airline is not sustainable and that it has no place in economy?
Yes, with the debts and government supports it has no place normally.
But if it is sustainable, it does have a place. So simple.

And the effect of the collapse on Budapest Airport's - and the country's! - economy is at the moment unforseeable...
There are estimates on how much millions of Euros will pass by because the fact that there is no network carrier at Budapest Airport.

Passengers are going now to Vienna, Prague etc. instead of Budapest if going from the Middle-East to Scandinavia, for example. That's a normal reaction, a normal fact - and in the same time not a good thing. Because Budapest lost its transferring traffic, and that's a nice impact on its revenue - directly and indirectly as well...

That was my 2 cents. Cheers!

Last edited by zerozol; February 13th, 2012 at 11:28 PM.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 12:28 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
Schengen Zone destroyed the smaller former flag carriers.
I think foxy Ze Germans are behind this with their usual double standard approach. Back in the days, Luthansa always offered cheaper airfares to squeeze CSA/MA out of Toronto/NYC. Also Malev was under OW umbrela to feed likes such as BA/OW. On top of that, they had Delta and AA taking some decent slack of connecting pax from Budapest. That was the main issue. LH loves their small LH star carriers known as their puppet feeder airlines.
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Old March 20th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #44
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Guys, what is going to happen with Malev, any new information?
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Old March 20th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #45
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Guys, what is going to happen with Malev, any new information?
I don't think these small airlines have some bright future no matter how you look it. Germany and EU will shut them down so that Lufthansa can take over the profitable feeder routes. The germans have to balance out their losses where they got destroyed by Emirates or Etihad. Just look at the all star alliance airlines going bust. You got Spainair, Dolimiti and so on. Than you have LOT and Austrian waiting to be taken by Lufthansa. There is also TAP Portugal waiting to be taken over by someone. What about Slovenian Adria? The Slovenian goverment allowed them to have the monopoly in Ljubljana so they could survive in the short run. Than you are still stuck with Emirates, Qatar and Etihad causing all sorts of problems for you europeans. They are in here for a long haul to mess up long lived german dream.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 01:49 AM   #46
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I agree with you, and the same is with Italian Alitalia or the Greek Olympic Airlines unfortunately. However, I always thought that Malev is a strong candidate in Europe , judging from it often flights and with reasonable prices, but apparently I was wrong
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Old March 21st, 2012, 02:02 AM   #47
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I agree with you, and the same is with Italian Alitalia or the Greek Olympic Airlines unfortunately. However, I always thought that Malev is a strong candidate in Europe , judging from it often flights and with reasonable prices, but apparently I was wrong
Maybe old Italia from 2008 ,but the new Alitalia is a different animal. You can not compare Aliatlia with these small regional airlines. The only reason why many of us look down on Alitalia is because they gave up on their Balkan network. They want to focus on the larger and profitable markets. That's because the market is oversaturated with too many small airlines feeding star alliance hubs. Alitalia/SKY TEAM left that peace of cake to Jat Airways and TAROM.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 02:21 AM   #48
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I agree with you, and the same is with Italian Alitalia or the Greek Olympic Airlines unfortunately. However, I always thought that Malev is a strong candidate in Europe , judging from it often flights and with reasonable prices, but apparently I was wrong
The times where each country had its own national airline are definitely over. What we are witnessing is the merger of airlines until there will be only 5 legacy carriers or so left 15-20 years from now. The most likely candidates for that being:

Lufthansa (which will buy up its Star alliance partners one by one in the future. They already did it with Austrian and Swiss and I guess SAS, TAP and LOT will be next)

Air France/KLM (who will most likely take over Alitalia and CSA at some point)

British Airways (they already acquired Iberia and I guess they will at some point in the future also buy Finnair and possibly Air Berlin)

Turkish Airlines and Aeroflot are the two other airlines that will likely still exist seeing as they both have huge and fast growing domestic markets.

All others will be history. And it is the same with the lowfare airlines. I guess only Ryanair and Easyjet will survive at the end. So we will end up with the same situation as in the United States where they currently have 4-5 legacy carriers and 2 major lowfare airlines.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 02:34 AM   #49
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There was rumour in Polish media about LOT and Turkish merger. IMO I think it's best option for LOT.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 06:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by R@ptor View Post

Lufthansa (which will buy up its Star alliance partners one by one in the future. They already did it with Austrian and Swiss and I guess SAS, TAP and LOT will be next)

...

British Airways (they already acquired Iberia and I guess they will at some point in the future also buy Finnair and possibly Air Berlin)
IAG actually has a lot of interest in acquiring TP to its portfolio, which is part of OW's strategy to hold and sustain OW's South American dominance.
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