200 Occidental

[mhays]

I have the same concern. In particular, the existing one and new one are both small, on the assumption of poor service levels. If either line ever gets to a decent frequency, they'll need more barns.

[mSeattle]

It's probably not a big deal if no barn is included in 200 Occ. There's plenty more space south of DT.

[alexjonlin]

I heard that both streetcar barns are designed for expansion. Even if we eventually have a large network of streetcar lines around the city, those (especially the SODO one) should be able to handle it. An extra streetcar barn in Pioneer Square for historic streetcars wouldn't be unreasonable.

[BellevueBoy]

So is the waterfront streetcar officially dead? I know they have the bus that runs that line but is the trolley dead? It would make sense with the waterfront poised for a major overhaul.

[Matt the Engineer]

Quick history, as I remember it: When SAM built the sculpture garden they bulldozed the barn, but the plan was to build a new one in 200 Occidental. But this building stalled and eventually King County Metro announced they were raiding the money they had set aside for the trolley for use for operations, since they were broke. At that point it might as well be dead.

But around a year ago the sports interests paid for a study to see how much it would cost to bring it back - something between $10M and $13M if memory serves. The current plans of the waterfront don't include space for the trolley, but a recent waterfront transportation meeting was overwhelmed by trolley supporters.

Yesterday's announcement of the sports arena brings up the question of transit. The potential location is between the Stadium station and the SoDo station for Link, so we're left with either a long walk or buses stuck in traffic. But if the waterfront trolley is rebuilt and extended southward in its own right of way, it could be a real option to move people. Though we'd still need to find a way to pay for it.

So the answer is: it's at least in a coma, with some trying to revive it and others trying to kill it. Time will tell if it's brought back to life.

[BellevueBoy]

Originally Posted by Matt the Engineer

Quick history, as I remember it: When SAM built the sculpture garden they bulldozed the barn, but the plan was to build a new one in 200 Occidental. But this building stalled and eventually King County Metro announced they were raiding the money they had set aside for the trolley for use for operations, since they were broke. At that point it might as well be dead.

But around a year ago the sports interests paid for a study to see how much it would cost to bring it back - something between $10M and $13M if memory serves. The current plans of the waterfront don't include space for the trolley, but a recent waterfront transportation meeting was overwhelmed by trolley supporters.

Yesterday's announcement of the sports arena brings up the question of transit. The potential location is between the Stadium station and the SoDo station for Link, so we're left with either a long walk or buses stuck in traffic. But if the waterfront trolley is rebuilt and extended southward in its own right of way, it could be a real option to move people. Though we'd still need to find a way to pay for it.

So the answer is: it's at least in a coma, with some trying to revive it and others trying to kill it. Time will tell if it's brought back to life.

Maybe they could add another station between the Stadium and the SoDo stations. This would especially make sense if they do build something on the scale of LA Live, complete with hotel, restaurants and retail.

[Doomgoggles]

Originally Posted by LCIII

They'll have to get the bums shipped out before any outdoor eating space will be successful. It not as bad as piss park but it's pretty bad.

What about the birds? I avoid Occidental Park like the plague because of the bird-shit.

[Matt the Engineer]

One solution (the bit about the pigeons, not the yogurt). Every time it rains, the park would self-clean.

Seriously though, you're complaining a park has birds? Should we remove the trees for you as well?

[LCIII]

The birds don't bother me. Don't seem to scare outdoor eaters at Ivars...

[Doomgoggles]

Originally Posted by Matt the Engineer

One solution (the bit about the pigeons, not the yogurt). Every time it rains, the park would self-clean.

Seriously though, you're complaining a park has birds? Should we remove the trees for you as well?

No, I love the trees. I love nature -- I grew up in the woods. But in nature, you don't have that concentration of pest birds. They're here in the park, and around the IDS because people feed them, and leave trash out.

[Doomgoggles]

So...this page hasn't been updated since the website went live:

http://200occidental.com/

Is this a sure thing now?

[mhays]

What is a "sure thing." It's not a term we use in the industry.

[Ruffhauser]

200 Occidental and Stadium Place would really jump-start a Pioneer Square comeback.

[BellevueBoy]

Originally Posted by Doomgoggles

So...this page hasn't been updated since the website went live:

http://200occidental.com/

Is this a sure thing now?

Doubt it. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert about this industry but I can spot a trend when I see one. Greg Smith's Urban Visions firm has had grand proposals for 2nd & Pike and Occidental for the last decade but has yet to break ground on either project while all these other apartment projects have started. Just from following the boards and blogs, I've learned that some developers get stuff done (Vulcan, Su Development, Schnitzer) while some others like Urban Visions are all talk.

[CityView Jim]

Agreed!

Probably waiting for the market to turn to sell the lot and design.

[Matt the Engineer]

Originally Posted by mhays

What is a "sure thing." It's not a term we use in the industry.

Death. Taxes. Change orders.

[mhays]

Not change orders!

[NW Mike]

Exciting project!!