Official Coventry Thread 5

[Dr Pepper]

After nearly 2500 posts it's time for number 5.

(Can a Mod please made this Sticky please? Much obliged)

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

They are putting in a full app for Bishop Gate

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...sWidget-bottom

Still think it's a terrible development, and one that will be about as much benefit to the city centre as IKEA was - and does Coventry _really_ need more 'pedestrian boulevards'? Another ASDA, Sainsbury's or TESCO... YAWN. Go on, surprise me and announce it's WAITROSE... LOL!

I went into the city centre on Friday night and walked up through Priory Place from Pool Meadow (8:30) - it was absolutely deserted, and two of the units look closed again. The Chinese had about five people in it and 'maison' was empty. Opposite Pool meadow the ground floor of the building seems to be filled with glass advertising the space as restaurant space and there's a (Closed?) Nigerian Restaurant called Solace. Quite a depressing place at the moment, and clearly the restaurant units are not economically viable - I expect they'll end up being fast food joints.

On the other hand, this evening, Bella Italia and Pizza Express at Belgrade Plaza were absolutely heaving...

"The Millennium came to Coventry and all we got was this useless empty space, a bridge to nowhere and a square of bars that no one wants. Oh, and two nice blank walls."

..

[Dr Pepper]

Co-op?

M&S Food?

UK's biggest Lidl/Aldi/Iceland/Heron Foods/Booths?

[Dr Pepper]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

Peacocks is closing two sites in Coventry - not sure which, as there are three: Central Six, West Orchards & Holbrooks Co Op (Not sure what that is?!)

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[Dr Pepper]

The branch in West Orchards was closed today. The lights were on but the shutter was down. Probably has the highest footfall but also the highest rent.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Co-op?

M&S Food?

UK's biggest Lidl/Aldi/Iceland/Heron Foods/Booths?

I can't see the Co Op trying again with a city centre store, and isn't this unit a big too big for them?

Booths are a decent chain - middle class type of thing. They're mainly Lancashire based, though, aren't they? They're building one on the village my Mum lives in... We stayed near Carnforth once and used one there. They sold a very expensive Japanese whiskey!

Heron Foods. LOL...

[Typhoon2000]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

I went into the city centre on Friday night and walked up through Priory Place from Pool Meadow (8:30) - it was absolutely deserted, and two of the units look closed again. The Chinese had about five people in it and 'maison' was empty. Opposite Pool meadow the ground floor of the building seems to be filled with glass advertising the space as restaurant space and there's a (Closed?) Nigerian Restaurant called Solace. Quite a depressing place at the moment, and clearly the restaurant units are not economically viable - I expect they'll end up being fast food joints.

On the other hand, this evening, Bella Italia and Pizza Express at Belgrade Plaza were absolutely heaving...

"The Millennium came to Coventry and all we got was this useless empty space, a bridge to nowhere and a square of bars that no one wants. Oh, and two nice blank walls."

I always wondered why they never built a large residential area around here to attract people to actually live in this part of the city, granted there is no canal but I'm sure this could have been a potential Brindley Place around here. I suppose what blocks any attempt a doing this is the hotel and Priory hall but this has such potential to be a lived in area. Even before building, just looking at the bus station late at night, I could tell that would be no way of producing a lively area with out, well, people. Definitel needs quality apartments and a good quality built hotel. I'm disappointed that that apartment block on the corner never got built.

[NewTroll]

Bizarre. Went to Aqua tonight and the whole Uni area is absolutely dead - all the pubs are empty and there's virtually no one around.

The city centre just seemed to be full of taxis prowling around for customers.

Earlsdon Street was heaving. Is there where everyone goes now? Surely not?

[Typhoon2000]

"reading" week?

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Typhoon2000

"reading" week?

Then I think we should expect a lot of top notch degrees from Cov Uni this year! As everyone must have been staying in.

There's a renewal for the Spanish restaurant on Albany Road:

http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/port...et?PKID=735624

I wonder if the chap behind it is waiting for the economy to pick up and for Earlsdon Park to be a bit more complete?

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Typhoon2000

I always wondered why they never built a large residential area around here to attract people to actually live in this part of the city, granted there is no canal but I'm sure this could have been a potential Brindley Place around here. I suppose what blocks any attempt a doing this is the hotel and Priory hall but this has such potential to be a lived in area. Even before building, just looking at the bus station late at night, I could tell that would be no way of producing a lively area with out, well, people. Definitel needs quality apartments and a good quality built hotel. I'm disappointed that that apartment block on the corner never got built.

I think Cov City council have been somewhat desperate over the years and we've seen a bunch of poorly planned developments that have never worked just because they had to be seen to be doing something... They don't seem to think through these things and then wonder why they've not worked.

[Typhoon2000]

that is kind of annoying then. i've never understood why there's been no joined up thinking with regard to how this city is planned. I mean, Far Gosford Street to Ball Hill had a potential to be a student hub, due to the fact that the Uni is spreading in that direction, so encouragement in this area would make sense.

The area up by the bus station is crying out for a Brindley Place style area, what with being close to the Rind Road junction and having access to that excellent station-to-station-via-town bus service. This place could have some great luxury apartments, grade A offices, and some quality bars and restaurants. Crikey, there's even a leisure centre here!

The town square could have been re-instated, chopping off the footprint of The Lanes, and coming up with a quality plate glass building, sympathetic to the area, featuring retail on the ground floor and a quality grade A office up to say, 4 or 5 floors high in order to match the height of the rest of the buildings in the square.

With Hereford Walk, I like what they're doing but again, the opportunity for a lived in city has been missed here, where they could have had some quality apartments/affordable offices above the shops - crikey, I mean look at the Tesco Metro in Brum, apartmrnts above a two storey store.

In fact, everyone sees the ring road 'concrete collar' as a threat and a problem, whereas I see it as a blatant opportunity to permenantly draw people from the outside in. At the moment, the reason why people hardly go into/use town is because of the hassle of negotiating that ring road either by foot, public transport or by car so those that live outside of the ring road, hardly bother at all and end up heading outside instead.

Now using that way of thinking, and because most young professionals prefer to live in a city environment, if all the bars restauarnts and other facilities are on your doorstep, why bother heading out of town? I know many in Birmingham that live in the Jupiter apartment which is inside our own concrete collar (The Middleway) but close to Brindley Place, offices and bars. They hardly leave this city 'boundary'. Likewise in town with the various apartment blocks in use, people hardly leave town and do a fair bit of supermarket shopping in the city centre at the local Tesco Metro and Sainsbury's Central.

So concentrating mixed use inside the ring road certainly in key areas in town first, could have a dramatic impact on how people use the city. In fact would mean that there actually would be people to use the city in the first place.

Crikey, I should be doing your big city plan!

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by Typhoon2000

that is kind of annoying then. i've never understood why there's been no joined up thinking with regard to how this city is planned. I mean, Far Gosford Street to Ball Hill had a potential to be a student hub, due to the fact that the Uni is spreading in that direction, so encouragement in this area would make sense.

The area up by the bus station is crying out for a Brindley Place style area, what with being close to the Rind Road junction and having access to that excellent station-to-station-via-town bus service. This place could have some great luxury apartments, grade A offices, and some quality bars and restaurants. Crikey, there's even a leisure centre here!

The town square could have been re-instated, chopping off the footprint of The Lanes, and coming up with a quality plate glass building, sympathetic to the area, featuring retail on the ground floor and a quality grade A office up to say, 4 or 5 floors high in order to match the height of the rest of the buildings in the square.

With Hereford Walk, I like what they're doing but again, the opportunity for a lived in city has been missed here, where they could have had some quality apartments/affordable offices above the shops - crikey, I mean look at the Tesco Metro in Brum, apartmrnts above a two storey store.

In fact, everyone sees the ring road 'concrete collar' as a threat and a problem, whereas I see it as a blatant opportunity to permenantly draw people from the outside in. At the moment, the reason why people hardly go into/use town is because of the hassle of negotiating that ring road either by foot, public transport or by car so those that live outside of the ring road, hardly bother at all and end up heading outside instead.

Now using that way of thinking, and because most young professionals prefer to live in a city environment, if all the bars restauarnts and other facilities are on your doorstep, why bother heading out of town? I know many in Birmingham that live in the Jupiter apartment which is inside our own concrete collar (The Middleway) but close to Brindley Place, offices and bars. They hardly leave this city 'boundary'. Likewise in town with the various apartment blocks in use, people hardly leave town and do a fair bit of supermarket shopping in the city centre at the local Tesco Metro and Sainsbury's Central.

So concentrating mixed use inside the ring road certainly in key areas in town first, could have a dramatic impact on how people use the city. In fact would mean that there actually would be people to use the city in the first place.

Crikey, I should be doing your big city plan!

I think I understand what you're suggesting. As people outside the ringroad never want to try and get across it into the centre because of the hassle it causes, by the same token those inside it wouldn't want to leave either for the same reason, thereby creating a captive audience. Decent enough theory.

But there's still a problem. People looking to build more luxury apartments aren't going to look at Coventry as an ideal place because it's got very little in the way of entertainment in the centre. This makes their job of selling them much harder and means prices are low. But the people providing the entertainments won't invest until the audience is there. Vicious circle.

I don't like your opinion of the Broadgate square though - replacing the (admittedly ugly) Cathedral Lanes with a larger glass building. The two churches hidden by that carbuncle are more than capable of providing a fantastic vista and give a much better idea of the history of the city. If CL got knocked down the site should be kept free and become the square. Broadgate is a mess, cutting off three or four streets to create this artifical enclosure which has pretty much no redeeming features.

And Coventry could very much do with a Brindley Place style development but it should start around the canal basin, not the bus station. 'The station to the basin' would mean people would go directly across the entire city centre, creating a great deal of footfall. Come out of the station, walk down Warwick Row, Hertford St, the Burges etc all lined with large shops or department stores for a bit of shopping, or look at the three spires/other historic buildings/museum just off the route, then onto the basin for something to eat and entertainment in the nice waterside setting.

[Fernando Partridge]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

I can't see the Co Op trying again with a city centre store, and isn't this unit a big too big for them?

Booths are a decent chain - middle class type of thing. They're mainly Lancashire based, though, aren't they? They're building one on the village my Mum lives in... We stayed near Carnforth once and used one there. They sold a very expensive Japanese whiskey!

Heron Foods. LOL...

Booths are just starting to broaden beyond Lancashire (well they've added a unit by Media City at Salford Quays!)

That'd be superb but it won't be anything other than a big 4 in Coventry. I think Tesco is the most likely

[NewTroll]

I think the old 'concrete collar' argument for the ringroad is used by a lot of people in the city, but without really knowing what it means. The ringroad fundamentally altered how people interact with the city centre, and not, in my view, in a particularly good way. People can see the decline in the city centre around the ring road and how the ring road (And precinct) are somehow involved.

All I can see happening is that we'll end up with big car parks around ring road junctions for specific use - it's already happening: Skydome, IKEA, Bishopgate. The other junctions don't have much land around them. Having said that, this location has hardly helped the Radisson get funding, has it?

Coventry is a city centre in which there's very little reason to move around by foot and there's even less reason to even go around the city centre's streets by car. If you want to go shopping, you can park in the precinct. If you want to go to the cinema, you can go to IKEA and park there, if you want to go to the theatre you have a car park. I always park in Belgrade Plaza or Skydome, and it always amuses me that people are queueing up to get into West Orchards. Absolutely bizarre.

A lot of people DO like the ring road, but they tend to like it (In my experience), for it's 'bypass' quality. In fact, that's one thing I do like about it, as I use it daily. I'm also aware how ridiculous it is!

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by CovAD

But there's still a problem. People looking to build more luxury apartments aren't going to look at Coventry as an ideal place because it's got very little in the way of entertainment in the centre. This makes their job of selling them much harder and means prices are low. But the people providing the entertainments won't invest until the audience is there. Vicious circle.

Or jobs... There aren't actually enough jobs in the city centre to support many apartments. And there's plenty of cheap housing just on the fringes, anyway, plus housing & leisure up in Earlsdon.

Having a lot of city centre employees actually creates demand for city centre leisure (And retail.)

Coventry has COMPLETELY lost out and really allowed the city centre to decline in all respects (But they're obsessed with retail, anyway, and creating museums and squares for tourists who don't come.)

I don't agree with you about the canal basin as a potential Brindley Place, though. I think around the Belgrade would have been better as there's already an attraction there and Belgrade Plaza could have been linked up with the 'millennium view' thing and all that empty land between them could be used to build venues/whatever you'd need. It'll never happen, though, because the council don't have the money and the only people interested in that land seem to be companies who built student halls.

Is Coventry station really important or busy enough to create the numbers of people for this ?It's links with the surrounding population are actually pretty limited, whereas Birmingham has a vast suburban train network. I live round the corner from Canley station and wouldn't dream of using it to get to the city centre.

[NewTroll]

For your interest, here's the original swimming baths in Pool Meadow, which I believe was on the land that is now just a car park (Photo taken in the 1950s).

[We-Are-Borg-1987]

The book 'The Coventry we have lost' is quite good for pictures like that.

Interesting article discussing the future of retail here.

http://www.economist.com/node/21548236

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

Or jobs... There aren't actually enough jobs in the city centre to support many apartments. And there's plenty of cheap housing just on the fringes, anyway, plus housing & leisure up in Earlsdon.

Having a lot of city centre employees actually creates demand for city centre leisure (And retail.)

Coventry has COMPLETELY lost out and really allowed the city centre to decline in all respects (But they're obsessed with retail, anyway, and creating museums and squares for tourists who don't come.)

I don't agree with you about the canal basin as a potential Brindley Place, though. I think around the Belgrade would have been better as there's already an attraction there and Belgrade Plaza could have been linked up with the 'millennium view' thing and all that empty land between them could be used to build venues/whatever you'd need. It'll never happen, though, because the council don't have the money and the only people interested in that land seem to be companies who built student halls.

Is Coventry station really important or busy enough to create the numbers of people for this ?It's links with the surrounding population are actually pretty limited, whereas Birmingham has a vast suburban train network. I live round the corner from Canley station and wouldn't dream of using it to get to the city centre.

I agree with you about the jobs bringing in all other sectors, and that the city centre has lost out, but again that's partly due to the need to bring huge amounts of old manufacturing land back into use leading to a migration of offices and retail outwards, and manufacturing needs too much space to be in the centre. They have tried to do something to re-centralise (ST, Friargate) but it isn't enough when there's competition like Birmingham next door.

The reason I think the basin would be better is because for me the thing that makes Brindley Place a nice place to go is the canals running through it - it just gives it a much nicer relaxed feel. Had it been built around Centenary Square for example it wouldn't have had the same feel. What you suggest is sensible, and if the people were attracted there it would be vibrant, but it just wouldn't feel quite so special.

I'm sure some people do explore further, but there was a report a while back in which traders in Spon Street and City Arcade complained about the lack of footfall in the area - as City Arcade is the main route from IKEA to the precinct, then it's clearly not made much of a difference. I would suggest that the majority of visitors to IKEA don't explore. For every person you know who does, I can think of someone I know who doesn't. What's even quiet sad is that I know a few people who'd rather drive to the Walsall IKEA than use the one here...

We bumped into some confused people in Belgrade Plaza car park the other week looking for IKEA! We told them they'd parked in the wrong car park.

The fuss with IKEA plaza? It's a large space (Too large and empty) but even worse it's a busy intersection with a lot of passing trade, and one of the few roads from the ringroad into the city centre that has pedestrians (The ringroad has surface level crossing.)... Whole towns have grown up around intersections. What has it got in it? IKEA's _awful_ cafe, and... nothing else. Some flowerpots and lot of litter and that horrendous road system around the Arena...

Businesses in Coventry city centre complain that there's no passing trade... and people have few places in the city with passing trade to set up a business... yet where there is passing trade the council just allow a corporation to build a blank wall and an empty square! (The same goes for the adjacent street, which is shocking.)

Even in the small Spanish town my Mum lives in for half a year virtually every single building that faces a main road has ground floor units... They generally fill up with a mix of businesses.

This goes back to my comments about the ringroad - if it is going stay (Which it is) then the city centre needs to be reconfigured to take advantage of it... Surely this means making sure that the roads between the ringroad and the precinct that do carry traffic aren't just lined with blank walls?

If you look at pictures of the old Coventry, the intersections in the city centre tended to have businesses around it. It's where routes meet and where there's traffic... Broadgate was a major intersection.

The crazy thing about IKEA Plaza is that it's got a bloody residential area just next to it and a large apartment complex around the corner!

I'd have insisted that IKEA and that apartment block opposite put in ground floor units. Now it's too late.

"I went to Coventry and I all I got was attacked by tumbleweed in an empty square."

I've been accosted by a few people around Spon St etc trying to find the entrance to IKEA. And it's incredibly difficult to explain to someone how to get to it when they can see it in front of them and you're telling them to go in completely the opposite direction. I'm sure quite a few have parked in the SkyDome by mistake, seeing as it's so close and got their corporate blue on.

And how on earth the council allowed the backend of a car park and completely blank walls to face streets is unfathomable. You'd have thought IKEA themsleves would at least want to have had some displays in ground floor windows to showcase their wares? The fact it'd help hide the car park would surely have just been an added boon?

[NewTroll]

I noticed today that 'Covee Shop' has closed down - this didn't last long.

There's also a 'temporary' store in the old MKI unit near Coventry Point - seems to be selling a load of tat.

I can't imagine what this area is going to be like in 3 years. I guess with the uncertainty over the 'Precinct South' development, we're not going to see any permanent stores bother.