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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifat View Post
Did you talk to any of the people in the city? What was their reaction to seeing foreigners walking around town? Were they shocked?
Well, seeing tourists is very unusual in Norilsk, so people were kind of surprised that someone could want to visit their city, especially when in the same time lot of them dream to visit France, or Europe in general.
Nevertheless they are aware that they live in a very special place, so when you explain them you wanted to visit a special place, well, they kind of understand you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
What are the cranes for? You seem to see cranes of the types used for loading ships. Is there a river with barges there?
I really don't know. There is no river in Norilsk. The river (and the harbour : Dudinka, see part 2) is actually 80 km to the west.



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Originally Posted by MyNameIsK View Post
#77 is monument to fallen soldiers in Afghanistan, Abkhazia, Angola, Chechnya, Cuba, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Yugoslavia
Sorry for the error then. Actually I thought there was quite a few names for a WW2 memorial. Now I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangutangulis View Post
the most interesting thing about Norilsk seams to escape discussion here - it is unic in a way that in planing the concept for its future it is not considered as a place of permanent living of population. In 2005 the concept of development of Norilsk-Nickel and the city itself was published and according to it the priority for the authorities there is facilitating for relocation of population from the city to southerm regions of the country - only temporary workers and engineers needed for maintaining smelter and mines functioning will reside over there - so to call Norilsk a city would be a bit of a stretch- a city is a place where people come to live permanently - we don't call Antarctic base as a city , neither do we call a military base in remoute north as a city - people come to work or shift service to such places, there may be schools and shops there but people don't buy real estate there and all their plans for future are connected with other places - I am not sure that there are any other places of that kind anywhere in the world (exept for Antarctida)
You are right, one of the thing you can notice while in Norilsk, it's the absence of old people in the streets. There are indeed programs to relocate retired people to the South.
Nevertheless, there is also a part of Norilsk's population which is "truly" from there. They are born there, they grew up there like their parents and grandparents, and they feel at home.
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Siberia from North to East :
Part 1 : Norilsk - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 -
Part 5 : Krasnoyarsk - Part 6 - Part 7 -
Part 8 : Vladivostok
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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Actually, it would seem to me what is unique about Norilsk is that it is populated as a city. This is different from places like Pruhdoe Bay in the United States which are also way above the Arctic Circle but have no permanent population. In Pruhdoe Bay all the workers cycle through for two weeks on/two weeks off schedules. So there are almost now woman there, no children or old people at all, no schools, no grocery stores (the workers stay in company housing for their shifts and eat in the company cafeteria, etc.).

Are you saying that Norilsk is moving towards that? If so the city will lose some of its character. To see a regular city like this so far north is amazing.
for me interest in cities and its infrastructure is interest in development first of all - and so I always try to see what is behind that or another photo regarding life of people in that or another place - so I find it disturbing and depressing when I see some misery in that or another place (be that Russia or Africa or Asia or India or even United States), so naturally when after googling about Norilsk I realised that people come there to earn money and are actually planing something better for themselves in future then to be trapped in such a place forewer and that Government programms of relocation exist for that - I ofcource come up here with that info as I suppose it should make everybody feel better for those people who live there in Norilsk - what you say I don't understand because if you are shown a Gulag for example (and this place is ex-Gulag by the way) and somebody say to you that those people will not stay there forewer- you would express some sad feelings that the place will loose some of its charackter? - I can't feel any pleasure in looking at hardships of others, although I do know that some tourists deliberatelly go to some poorest places of the world to feel themselves rich and succesfull in contrast to locals as that feeling brings them psychological satisfaction- I don't like such people and I hope that this thread was created not with such intentions...Thats why I though that everybody would be glad to read my information about Norilsk (sorry for my poor English)

Last edited by orangutangulis; August 26th, 2011 at 01:43 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post

You are right, one of the thing you can notice while in Norilsk, it's the absence of old people in the streets. There are indeed programs to relocate retired people to the South.
Nevertheless, there is also a part of Norilsk's population which is "truly" from there. They are born there, they grew up there like their parents and grandparents, and they feel at home.
thanks for that info - there are even local ethnic groups (non-Russians) - nenets and evenks who lived there for centuries even before Russians appeared in those regions - and they lived without homes, electricity or any connection to "mainland" - they lived in dwellings made of northern deer hide and it is hard to imagine how they could survive winters there
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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:51 AM   #24
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"I can't feel any pleasure in looking at hardships of others, although I do know that some tourists deliberatelly go to some poorest places of the world to feel themselves rich and succesfull in contrast to locals as that feeling brings them psychological satisfaction- I don't like such people and I hope that this thread was created not with such intentions."

I doubt this thread has that intention. You shouldn't assume people look at this place with pity. Some, and I am among them, would LOVE to be in a place like that. I will take a gritty place (like Detroit or Cleveland) over a glittery place (like Miami or Minneapolis) any day. Further, I love the north, I love extreme cold, I love the radical change in day lengths, I love the forbidding and difficult environment, as do a number of people. In the US there are people who intentionally go to places like Prudhoe Bay or Kotzebue Alaska because they want to be there. In fact, it is hard to get jobs there because they have so many people who seek out jobs in those places. Go to Alaska and you'll find the overwhelming majority of people are from the "outside" and moved there.

So I don't pity the people in these pictures at all. I assume they either want to be there because they make a lot of money, or because they like being in such a place, or maybe both. And frankly, I envy them. You can think I am nuts, but to each their own.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 02:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangutangulis View Post
I do know that some tourists deliberatelly go to some poorest places of the world to feel themselves rich and succesfull in contrast to locals as that feeling brings them psychological satisfaction- I don't like such people and I hope that this thread was created not with such intentions...Thats why I though that everybody would be glad to read my information about Norilsk (sorry for my poor English)
If I wanted to go to a poor place to "feel good", I wouldn't have chosen Siberia, but a cheaper and easier place to go (and a lot poorer), like, I don't know, Senegal or why not that Roma camp in the next street.
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Siberia from North to East :
Part 1 : Norilsk - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 -
Part 5 : Krasnoyarsk - Part 6 - Part 7 -
Part 8 : Vladivostok

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Old August 26th, 2011, 02:56 AM   #26
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Ok, now that I see you travelled out of this region via boat, is this city connected to the rest of Russia by road or train, or is that river the only way out (other than air). I am guessing the only way out is by boat.

Also, this bring up another point about why this place looks the way it does, and it doesn't have any thing to do with being poor. It is being that far north and being so isolated makes all transportation difficult and all goods from the outside very expensive. Therefore, place like that have a "pack rat" appearence - that is you see that no one ever throughs anything away. You keep everything around because you never know what any piece of junk might be good for in the future. That is probably why they don't knock down the unfinished apartment buildings - it took so much work to build them and they never know if they might be useful for something in the future.

This also explains why so many things look poorly kept or not painted. Bringing in all the things like paint is very, very expensive so you don't bother with unnecessary things like painting.

Still can't figure out why those cranes are in this city...

When I go I'll have to ask :-)
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Old August 26th, 2011, 05:23 AM   #27
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This site has a lot of pictures of Norilsk in winter time:

http://russiamagazine.livejournal.com/8745.html

Even more pictures from Norilsk in the winter. Looks like a lot more fun visiting in the winter than the summer :-) :

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationP...k_Siberia.html

And here is an awesome video of inside the smelter (with some pretty corny narrative);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp8_UCJTa9k

Last edited by 600West218; August 26th, 2011 at 05:36 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
Ok, now that I see you travelled out of this region via boat, is this city connected to the rest of Russia by road or train, or is that river the only way out (other than air). I am guessing the only way out is by boat.

Also, this bring up another point about why this place looks the way it does, and it doesn't have any thing to do with being poor. It is being that far north and being so isolated makes all transportation difficult and all goods from the outside very expensive. Therefore, place like that have a "pack rat" appearence - that is you see that no one ever throughs anything away. You keep everything around because you never know what any piece of junk might be good for in the future. That is probably why they don't knock down the unfinished apartment buildings - it took so much work to build them and they never know if they might be useful for something in the future.

This also explains why so many things look poorly kept or not painted. Bringing in all the things like paint is very, very expensive so you don't bother with unnecessary things like painting.

Still can't figure out why those cranes are in this city...

When I go I'll have to ask :-)
I like your posts, so I decided to google on youtube a bit and here is interesting info regarding your qestions with video - looks like last year the first ever expedition made it BY CARS to Norilsk from "mainland" Russia - and it is in winter time, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCHAw...eature=related

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdlotgH4yPI

and here is amazing video about Norilsk (with the same buildings that GM show in this thread and much more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqugNBA6kDs

and here is Norilsk in summer (unususal hot summer last year):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvs-w...eature=related
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Old August 26th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
I doubt this thread has that intention. You shouldn't assume people look at this place with pity. Some, and I am among them, would LOVE to be in a place like that. I will take a gritty place (like Detroit or Cleveland) over a glittery place (like Miami or Minneapolis) any day. Further, I love the north, I love extreme cold, I love the radical change in day lengths, I love the forbidding and difficult environment, as do a number of people. In the US there are people who intentionally go to places like Prudhoe Bay or Kotzebue Alaska because they want to be there. In fact, it is hard to get jobs there because they have so many people who seek out jobs in those places. Go to Alaska and you'll find the overwhelming majority of people are from the "outside" and moved there.
Completely agree.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 12:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
And here is an awesome video of inside the smelter (with some pretty corny narrative);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp8_UCJTa9k
Great video, we visited the same plant and saw these smelters, but we couldn't take any pics of the inside.
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Siberia from North to East :
Part 1 : Norilsk - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 -
Part 5 : Krasnoyarsk - Part 6 - Part 7 -
Part 8 : Vladivostok
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Old December 21st, 2011, 02:18 AM   #31
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Superbe reportage photographique! On a l'impression que la ville est uniquement constituée de barres d'habitation. Superb photographic reportage! One gets the impression that the city consists solely of commieblocks.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 11:38 AM   #32
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Fantastic, Norilsk really is one of those fascinating 'edge of the world' type places!

Last edited by Jonesy55; December 21st, 2011 at 08:43 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2011, 05:02 PM   #33
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Wow, this is an amazing photo-tour. For me at least, Norlisk is like a set out of a post-apocalyptic, dystopia movie...a sort of abandoned Stalinist soviet town. I was intrigued with another thread of a town I hadn't heard of in western europe, but this takes the cake. It's not overly pretty, but definitely interesting. Great effort.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 03:39 PM   #34
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Thanks for the comments !
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Siberia from North to East :
Part 1 : Norilsk - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 -
Part 5 : Krasnoyarsk - Part 6 - Part 7 -
Part 8 : Vladivostok
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Old February 25th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #35
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Didn't I hear average life expectancy is like 40
or was that another city?
Anyway did the people talk about the horrible pollution?
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Old February 25th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #36
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Great thread! I will follow this in the future. As far as I know there is no road or train to Norilsk, it is just acessible by plane or boat although there is a train station. But it ends at the port of Dudinka where you have to take the boat.

I saw a few documentations about Norilsk on TV, obviously the iron curtain has a few holes, some intrepid traveller even carry on to the Putorana plateau, a totally remote (and unspoilt) area east of the city. Nori(l)sk, no fun!
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Old February 25th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #37
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nice thread on Siberia, would love to see more pics please...
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:57 AM   #38
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This has to be the least desirable place on Earth to live in. Oddly enough I did a scavenge of google maps a month ago and ran into this city and wondered what it looked like in the actual city, so thanks for showing! Hard to believe the weather doesn't tear those abandoned buildings down quicker
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Old April 13th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #39
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Amazing and so impressive pictures...
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Old April 13th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #40
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I missed this somehow. Crazy place. Some of the commies also seem to tilt a bit. Propably because of the melting permafrost...
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