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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #401
Tin_Can
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Edelaraudtee is going to add 1 additional wagon to each Tallinn-Tartu train running at weekends. Their decision comes after many passengers complained of trains being overcrowded. In addition to that they trying to force passengers to travel on other times by giving ticket discounts.

Source: http://www.postimees.ee/750852/edela...e-lisavagunit/




I wonder how long it takes for Edelaraudtee to figure out that they could actually put more trains on Tallinn-Tartu line,instead of just adding few wagons and hoping that all passengers can somehow squeeze in?
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:45 AM   #402
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Edelaraudtee sucks, those so called wagons are made only for animals to travel !
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
[B]
I wonder how long it takes for Edelaraudtee to figure out that they could actually put more trains on Tallinn-Tartu line,instead of just adding few wagons
and hoping that all passengers can somehow squeeze in?
Edelaraudtee don't have free usable consists. All that work are in use and all that don't work are unusable. Maybe one more pair of trains between Tartu and Tallinn is possible but it is maybe.

They have former St.Peterburg train consist but it is another topic. Russian cars are badly built they need coal to heat, it means every car must be heated separately no one generator car as western engineers have maid. And also other problems with these russian cars as no automatic doors etc.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #404
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AFAIK, there is DC on Russian tracks. Isn't it?
Russia uses both AC and DC depending on location.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #405
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The biggest advantage of using AC is of course cost. The network is AC, so you don't need any conversion and since the voltages are much higher, the current will be much lower and thus the overhead wires can be much lighter and thinner.

But I agree with Rebasepoiss: It's not really that important in Estonia to switch. It's mostly interesting to build new lines with AC, not upgrade existing ones.
If AC needs thinner wires then the new overhead wires should be ready for AC also, new AC substations and go. Of course in that case Flirts must be converted to AC.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #406
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If AC needs thinner wires then the new overhead wires should be ready for AC also, new AC substations and go.
Check insulation thicknesses and gaps though. The common AC electrification approaches have lower currents but higher tensions than DC.

Does anyone have map of the electrifications of Russia?

Note that Lithuania has 25 kV, 50 Hz AC electrification. Does Lithuania plan to electrify Kaunas-Šiauliai?
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #407
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Russia uses both AC and DC depending on location.
It's not a secret.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #408
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I just dug out that Finns are electrifying 85km long Rovaniemi-Kemijärvi railway for 9,5 million € (24 million €,if you include signalling,track realignment and other stuff),so using this as a base for calculating construction costs:

Aegviidu-Tapa-Rakvere line (~50km) electrification would cost 5,5-14 million €
Aegviidu-Tapa-Tartu line (~135km) electrification would cost 15-38 million €
Aegviidu-Tapa-Narva line (~155km) electrification would cost 17-44 million €

Mind you,this is subjective and not very accurate,but it should give you the idea how much electric railways would cost...
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Old February 27th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
I just dug out that Finns are electrifying 85km long Rovaniemi-Kemijärvi railway for 9,5 million € (24 million €,if you include signalling,track realignment and other stuff),so using this as a base for calculating construction costs:

Aegviidu-Tapa-Rakvere line (~50km) electrification would cost 5,5-14 million €
Aegviidu-Tapa-Tartu line (~135km) electrification would cost 15-38 million €
Aegviidu-Tapa-Narva line (~155km) electrification would cost 17-44 million €

Mind you,this is subjective and not very accurate,but it should give you the idea how much electric railways would cost...
doesnt seem like very much, maybe we can trade some CO2 quotas, instead of some buses or electric vehicles?
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Old February 27th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Check insulation thicknesses and gaps though. The common AC electrification approaches have lower currents but higher tensions than DC.

Does anyone have map of the electrifications of Russia?

Note that Lithuania has 25 kV, 50 Hz AC electrification. Does Lithuania plan to electrify Kaunas-Šiauliai?
Here you go: Full map of russian railway infra.

http://parovoz.com/maps/supermap/sup...=C&Y=1&LANG=en
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Old February 27th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Pro rail baltica View Post
Here you go: Full map of russian railway infra.

http://parovoz.com/maps/supermap/sup...=C&Y=1&LANG=en
Thanks!
Note that the whole October Railway is 3 kV DC, and yet manages to operate 250 km/h Sapsans. The nearest AC railways are those crossing Belorussian border.

Which means that any expansion of electrification from Petersburg to Ivangorod and past Narva would be DC.

Also, the Belorussian AC network gets close to Vilnius (are they going to electrify it?), but it is not close to Latvian border at Indra.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #412
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doesnt seem like very much, maybe we can trade some CO2 quotas, instead of some buses or electric vehicles?
Yeah,it's surprisingly cheap. I really hope that in this decade we will see electric railways extended to Tapa,or even better - to Rakvere. Benefits of it are really obvious.

But isn't it very strictly dictated how we can use CO2 quotas? Electric railways are green and all,but I think companies & countries who bought our CO2 quotas,had very large influence on how we spent our money. Of course,we could always make a deal with some railway infrastructure manufacturer
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Old February 27th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Thanks!
Note that the whole October Railway is 3 kV DC, and yet manages to operate 250 km/h Sapsans. The nearest AC railways are those crossing Belorussian border.
.
Are you sure that Moscow-St.Petersburg is 3kV DC? Yes, the map indicates so but it was last updated in 2007 while Sapsan entered service in 2009. So there's a chance they switched from DC to AC while fixing up the tracks. We should probably ask this from a Russian forumer.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #414
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Are you sure that Moscow-St.Petersburg is 3kV DC?
Yes, there is 3kV DC.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin_Can View Post
Yeah,it's surprisingly cheap. I really hope that in this decade we will see electric railways extended to Tapa,or even better - to Rakvere. Benefits of it are really obvious.

But isn't it very strictly dictated how we can use CO2 quotas? Electric railways are green and all,but I think companies & countries who bought our CO2 quotas,had very large influence on how we spent our money. Of course,we could always make a deal with some railway infrastructure manufacturer

Rich Estonians and Russians use DC.

I quess maximal infra cost is use hybrid network (AC & DC)

Finnish construction cost cannot be compared into Estonians, since only AC infra is cheap, and economical Finns use only AC.

I heard Estonians buy with CO2 quotas Trams.. Why not new AC network too (Like Finnish VR has done).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtManDoo View Post
If AC needs thinner wires then the new overhead wires should be ready for AC also, new AC substations and go. Of course in that case Flirts must be converted to AC.
I heard that moder trains can easily use anykind of current without special modifications. For example Allegro uses in Finland AC and in St. Petersburg region DC.


I read http://forum.railwayz.info/viewtopic...19ee&start=725

that Belarusians have made Gudogay -> http://mapcarta.com/13601650 primary electrification target, after that next is Gomel direction

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; February 27th, 2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #416
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Estonian electric railways date back further than Finnish ones. I guess DC was chosen way back then and there has been no direct need to switch to AC. You don't have to be so cocky, btw. As I pointed out, several Western European countries have extensive DC networks and they have no immediate plan of switching to AC.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #417
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What benefits would conversion from DC to AC give us?
Higher top speeds? - even at best our railways would never be upgraded to higher speeds than 200km/h (excluding Rail Baltica) and for those speeds 3 kV DC is more than adequate.
Fewer power feeding stations along the lines? - well,we are so small country,so it doesn't make much difference if we have few additional stations feeding power to overhead lines.
Because our neighbours have/are planning AC lines? - there are many EMU's and locomotives which can operate on both AC & DC currents.

There isn't any point of converting to AC at this moment. It would be useful to use it on Rail Baltica,because of it's higher top speeds and without a doubt Rail Baltica will be AC electric railway,but local railways can stay 3 kV DC.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Estonian electric railways date back further than Finnish ones. I guess DC was chosen way back then and there has been no direct need to switch to AC. You don't have to be so cocky, btw. As I pointed out, several Western European countries have extensive DC networks and they have no immediate plan of switching to AC.
Yep. I know history. Estonia was much richer and more development before social experiment called Soviet union. I quess Estonia had even electricity before Finland? ..I head that in USA the first national electricity distribution was done as DC networks.

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What benefits would conversion from DC to AC give us?
Lower maintenance cost, possibility for extensive infra extension . Less energy usage in train operating

..Now you are forgotting that Latvia has finished it's study of Electricity infra development study.. And they have decided to go into AC and even change the old infra into AC. (At least the what i read from forums)

Last edited by Pro rail baltica; February 27th, 2012 at 08:08 PM.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #419
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Staggering news! Lux Express, which currently operates several international bus lines in the Baltics is planning to start a train service on Tallinn-St.Petersburg line since they can't keep up with the demand with buses (largely due to the poor capacity of Narva border crossing). They plan to buy 2 (probably) new € 10 million Stadler trains to run on this line.

http://www.e24.ee/753882/sebe-plaani...ri-rongiliini/

It's worth mentioning that Lux Express belongs to Sebe, the leading intercity bus company in Estonia that has also shown interest to take part in the procurement to choose an operator for the new Stadler trains.
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Last edited by Rebasepoiss; February 28th, 2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #420
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omg! Crazynews!
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