Battersea Power Station redevelopment | Wandsworth | Pre-planning

[Varenukha]

Originally Posted by Jaeger

LOL - it's like something from the set of Shameless.

It makes me so proud to think that the QE Hall is where some of the great concert orchestras of the world come to play and that this is many young musicians first view of London. What a great lasting impression of our country.


Just makes you so proud to be British.

Still there are a lot of good new concert halls outside of London, and many European cities are investing in new state of the art halls. Although many European Cities including those in the East of Europe already have magnificent old halls with incredible acoustics.

Makes you just laugh at London wth it's petty politics and daft Mayors proclaiming it to be the centre of the cultural universe - what utter rubbish. I am yet to see anything as good in London as even the concert halls in some other British Cities, never mind as good as some of the European Halls or New York's Carnegie Hall.

Not sure why you have it in for Britain - all I know is that for decades I have been enjoying London's venues, seeing world class performances from world class performers in pretty much every field of classical music and your view does not resonate with my experiences one iota. OK the South Bank looks grubby in places - like many locations in every city on the planet. OK - the Barbican is confusing to those unfamiliar with its layout - so what? If you actually go it becomes easy to naviagate around very quickly. OK - there are superb venues around the world where excellence is the norm - this does not mean London is poor as a result: this is not a zero sum game. OK - you can find any number of media articles offering up criticism of our cultural venues. Of course you can - this is Britain! We love doing that, its a national sport.

You're right, I don't know who you are or how often you actually visit the venues you so willingly criticise. However I do suspect it is not very often, given you have such a jaundiced view of a cultural dimension to our capital that frankly has been enjoyed by millions. I cannot remember a single performance that I have attended over the past years (and there have been hundreds) where the audience has expressed views of this nature or acted in ways that would demonstrate they share this unhappy perspective. Quite the opposite. If you are a regular visitor to the RFH, the Barbican etc, I recommend you stop! Lets someone else have the seat, someone who would enjoy it.

[Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Varenukha

Not sure why you have it in for Britain - all I know is that for decades I have been enjoying London's venues, seeing world class performances from world class performers in pretty much every field of classical music and your view does not resonate with my experiences one iota. OK the South Bank looks grubby in places - like many locations in every city on the planet. OK - the Barbican is confusing to those unfamiliar with its layout - so what? If you actually go it becomes easy to naviagate around very quickly. OK - there are superb venues around the world where excellence is the norm - this does not mean London is poor as a result: this is not a zero sum game. OK - you can find any number of media articles offering up criticism of our cultural venues. Of course you can - this is Britain! We love doing that, its a national sport.

You're right, I don't know who you are or how often you actually visit the venues you so willingly criticise. However I do suspect it is not very often, given you have such a jaundiced view of a cultural dimension to our capital that frankly has been enjoyed by millions. I cannot remember a single performance that I have attended over the past years (and there have been hundreds) where the audience has expressed views of this nature or acted in ways that would demonstrate they share this unhappy perspective. Quite the opposite. If you are a regular visitor to the RFH, the Barbican etc, I recommend you stop! Lets someone else have the seat, someone who would enjoy it.

LOL - I have it in for my country because I dared criticise the acoustic of London's concert halls, I guess all those prominant people in the field of classical music who share my views, many of them top musicians and conductors themselves must hate their country too. The fact that London's halls were built to the wrong shape and of the wrong material to be conducive to good sound quality and acoustic, which in turn effects the quality of the listening experience doesn't seem to register with you. Yes I would like to see a new concert hall in London, built from scratch with top acoustic experts employed from the begining, and I apologise for how unpatriotic this might sound. I will also open a nice bottle of something along with Jessica Duchen if they pull down Queen Elizabeth Hall and replace it with something more suitable both in terms of aesthetics and acoustics. Then again I am just a British hating traitor - LOL

Thankfully it looks like the Southbank Centre is finally going to refurbish the rest of it's estate with a scheduled rota for refurbishment work announced. Hopefully this will improve things in relation to the Queen Elizabeth Hall, lets just hope it's a major refurbishment and completes the very good Rick Mather Masterplan for the Southbank Centre and his plans for Queen Elizabeth Hall and the Hayward Gallery. Perhaps it's finally time to get rid of that dirty germ riddden health hazard of an undercroft (most of which is now blocked off anyway) and link the RFH with the other buildings. In terms of skateboarding there are a number of new skateboard parks that have sprung up aross London such as Whites ground skateboard park on the Southbank and nearby Stockwell and Kennngton Skateboard Parks, whilst in terms of graffiti artists there is nearby leake street at Waterloo. So both activities are more than catered for on the South bank.

http://www.legalweek.com/legal-week/...e-legal-panels

http://www.rickmather.com/project/so...tre_masterplan


As for the Barbican's problems they have nothing to do with the layout of the estate or indeed it's brutalist architecture but the concert hall itself, which is fan shaped (the walls spread out like a fan from the stage). The shape of such halls means that music suffers from a lack of early reflection, causing the music to be muffled or distorted and the acoustic to be too dry. A shoe box shape is far more conducive to good orchestral music, with vine shaped halls also proving to be more effective.

I have already cited the problems and quoted others in respect of the Royal Albert Hall and RFH and I don't wish to keep repeating myself.

The one thing a concert hall should have above anything else regardless of the type of architecture employed is good sound quality and acoustic.

As for your personal attacks and jibes, grow up. I am not attacking you on a personal level, nor will I be drawn in to doing so.

Here's a good site in relation to concert hall acoustics which demonstrates different acoustic qualities and the importance of good acoustic to the concert hall experience. The Barbican being noted for it's dry acoustic.


http://www.concerthalls.unomaha.edu/discussion.htm

Finally in terms of our orchestras and indeed London falling behind other countries, Gramophone (the classical music bible) recently published a list of the top twenty orchestras, with only one British Orchestra making the list, the LSO. What was even more amazing was that some people I encountered on various forums, including a German argued vigorously that the LSO shouldn't be on the list and that no British Orchestras were in the worlds top twenty. The problem with British Orchestras is they don't receive the generous state handouts available in other countries such as Germany and Austria, are under paid (especially in London) and don't have the lavish concert halls that are evident in Europe and America, just look at the new $500 million Elbe Philharmonic Hall in Hamburg. There has been massive investment in new concert halls and orchestras across Europe, Paris is opening it's state of the art hall in 2014 (part the new and very impressive Cité de la Musique) and what has London done try to put a sticking plaster over the Southbank and Barbican. It's little wonder our orchestras aren't generally considered worthy of inclusion in Gramophones list of the best in the world.

http://www.bachtrack.com/world-top-20-orchestras


Now to let this thread get back on track and to it's proper subject matter - 'The Battersea Power Station'

[Jaeger]

Back on topic.

A transformation of Battersea in to something similar to the Elbe Philharmonic Hall in Hamburg would be great.

[kleinhond]

Does anyone know the history of the Bankside Power Station site that became Tate Modern?

Was it owned by the same people that sold off Battersea in the 80s?

Why weren't both sites placed on open market from the start?

[ill tonkso]

I have to say, I really do not like Bankside. It's too blank and dull, doesn't look good on a grey sky London day. It has some detailing I admit, but it's just hulking.

[kleinhond]

Ok but my point was Why was it that the less interesting of the two power stations has become a huge tourist attraction and the other still sits derelict?

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by kleinhond

Ok but my point was Why was it that the less interesting of the two power stations has become a huge tourist attraction and the other still sits derelict?

Well, Bankside, while huge, is much smaller than Battersea Power Station. It was much more suited to a single tenant.

Also with the coming of the Jubilee line it was much more accessible than Battersea and it is in a better position. It was a better location due to it being near the existing South Bank tourist circuit/public venues. The growth of the Globe, Oxo Tower and Borough Market has linked a tourist route all the way to Tower Bridge.

[kleinhond]

Yes I see. We're both power stations owned by the same company?

The selling process of both (in the 80s at least in the case of Battersea) seems to be shrouded in mystery

[mouldss@hotmail.co.u]

A new tourist route 1.Battersea park 2.Battersea station 3. tate Britain 4.wrens chelsea hospital.


All a short walk away.

Why cant the power station be spit in half, office/theatre or office/ art gallery or office/tobacco land.

[paulina_1]

Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, has published his final vision for the next major area for development in central London as part of his drive to attract investment into the capital to create jobs, prosperity and growth

The Mayor's new planning framework confirms that the area covering Vauxhall, Nine Elms and Battersea will be transformed into a brand new district for the capital, with potential for 16,000 new homes and up to 25,000 new jobs.

Crucially the extension of the Northern Line to Battersea, a commitment secured in the Chancellor's 2011 Autumn Statement, can now be funded via a levy on developments approved through the planning system expected to raise more than £500m towards its construction.

This comes as the Mayor has put Beam Park, one of the largest brownfield sites in east London, on the market for redevelopment. Currently owned by the Mayor's London Development Agency the 70 acre site, formerly part of the Ford Motor company, has enormous potential to regenerate this part of the city.

The Mayor is working with the London Boroughs of Barking & Dagenham and Havering to ensure that Beam Park's full potential is realised and that new job creation is maximised through its development.

Boris Johnson said: "These two prime locations have the potential for great returns for investors as well as supporting thousands of jobs and driving growth across the capital.

"We have already seen how major investment in our infrastructure from the 2012 Games has transformed east London and is already attracting great interest from investors from around the world. There is every reason to believe that we can replicate that level of success on both the Vauxhall, Nine Elms and Battersea and Beam Park sites."
www.london.gov.uk

[LDN_EUROPE]

Does anyone have access (password and username) to this: http://www.battersea-powerstation.com/

[Futtock]

Sweet Jesus QE Hall looks poor. I love it how they've tried to make it 'hip' and 'edgy' by allowing graffiti and skateboarders when actually it just looks like a car park in Reading

Mind you the Dutch Opera House has a questionable extension on its side. I can't quite tell if its 70s tat or a semi-decent modern addition

[Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Futtock

Sweet Jesus QE Hall looks poor. I love it how they've tried to make it 'hip' and 'edgy' by allowing graffiti and skateboarders when actually it just looks like a car park in Reading

Mind you the Dutch Opera House has a questionable extension on its side. I can't quite tell if its 70s tat or a semi-decent modern addition

LOL - it isn't up to scratch when it comes to visiting orchestras, in fact it's all a bit embarassing.

There is reason to be a bit more optomistic though, as the Southbank Cantre has just appointed a new legal team to oversea redevelopments and refurbishments.

http://www.legalweek.com/legal-week/...e-legal-panels

I am not sure what is going to be done, indeed the last proposals for the SBC were the Rick Mather plans below. Although for all I care they can pull down Queen Elizabeth Hall and build a new hall, with a good acoustic. Better still sell the entire South Bank Centre and use the money to rebuild the old Queen's Hall

http://www.rickmather.com/project/so...tre_masterplan

[kleinhond]

Originally Posted by LDN_EUROPE

Does anyone have access (password and username) to this: http://www.battersea-powerstation.com/

Sadly not.

[Jaeger]

Originally Posted by Futtock

Sweet Jesus QE Hall looks poor. I love it how they've tried to make it 'hip' and 'edgy' by allowing graffiti and skateboarders when actually it just looks like a car park in Reading

Mind you the Dutch Opera House has a questionable extension on its side. I can't quite tell if its 70s tat or a semi-decent modern addition

It's now been announced the QE Hall, Purcell Room and Hayward are to undergo a £43 million refurbishment.

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/5910

[PadArch]

christ, what a lot of money

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by PadArch

christ, what a lot of money

Sadly I expect it's not enough to do a proper job.

[Jaeger]

Originally Posted by PadArch

christ, what a lot of money

The Southbank Centre has already spent £115 million recently on the neighbouring Royal Festival Hall, and are currently spending more refurbishing the RFH Organ (£2.3million). It was the BFI who initially started the ball rolling with it's new IMAX (£15 million back in 1999) on what used to be cardboard city near Waterloo, as well as the current BFI Southbank buildings at the southern end of Waterloo Bridge, which were themselves to be replaced by a new £166 million BFI Southbank building at Hungerford Bridge Car Park. Sadly Government money equating to around £45 million was withdrawn in 2010 and the project put on hold until funds can be raised.

Other projects include the transformation of jubilee gardens (£3.2 million) and the new Ramberts Dance Studio (£20 million) directly behind the National Theatre, which is also planning a massive extension and refurbishment with the NT Future scheme adding up to a cost of £70 million , with a good proportion coming from the global profits made from it's 'War Horse' production.

The latest £43 million will see the Southbank Centre complete it's transformation with the refurbishment of the Queen Elizabeth Hall, Purcell Room and Hayward Gallery and the linking of the buildings and RFH. Meanwhile the BFI still hoping to press ahead with it's Southbank Plans, in the longer term.

The Southbank is starting to look like a decent arts centre and tourist destination, after decades of looking bleak, windswept and unwelcoming. The new investment will hopefully help it build on it's new status and increase it's visitor numbers.

[delores]

Another proposal for the power station, this time by Allies and Morrison, practical but a bit boring.
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/allie...035249.article

[DarJoLe]

Originally Posted by delores

practical but a bit boring.

Sign of the times we now live in.

Don't see the market for this. Unless it was a replacement for Earls Court. Does London need another arena?