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Old March 5th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #30441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicMan84 View Post
Took some photos yesterday - thought I would share a couple.

Which Building is the close-up?
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Old March 5th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #30442
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Which Building is the close-up?
Two World Financial Center.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #30443
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Does anyone know when they will start the cladding again?
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #30444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgdrewsif View Post
Kanto, if you are going to type this:
"As do I... yes we all greatly miss the old WTC... but what is replacing them is in almost every sense superior to what was lost (physical nope, safety yup, engineering yup, aesthetics nope, integration into surrounding community nope and street grid yup, environmental impact yup)"

I think it fair to know why you do not feel that the new WTC will not be physically superior, aesthetically superior, or better integrated into the surrounding community than the old WTC?

As I see it, the new WTC buildings are airier, roomier, let in far more natural light, and provide much better comforts for building occupants (some of the office photos I have seen from the original towers are downright claustrophobic and dire looking). From the outside the entire complex is covered in glass and beautifully reflects the lights and skyline of neighboring buildings and even Jersey City is clearly reflected in the almost mirror-like finish of 4WTC in many photos I have seen... The old towers, while they had become familiar landmark, were in many ways a brutalist appendage upon the base of Manhattan and buildings 3 (hotel) and 4, 5, 6, and tower 7 were hardly renowned as attractive or memorable architectural works from an aesthetic standpoint compared to the new Towers 1, 2, 3, 4, the museum pavilion, and the Calatrava-designed transit hall which are generally beautiful and shimmering structures even if towers 3 and 4 are not 'revolutionary' in their overall structural designs...

And the new WTC complex reintegrated the street plan of lower Manhattan that the local community desperately wanted (particularly the new building 7 vs the footprint of the old building 7 which cut off lower Manhattan from the rest of the city's streets and views). The new complex provides the memorial complex and hundreds of trees, grasses, waterfalls, and accompanying wildlife (birds and squirrels and whatnot) compared to the brutalist and stark concrete expanse that was the former Austin J. Tobin Plaza that was almost universally regarded as a barren expanse of concrete despite continual efforts to 'liven' it with planters, benches, speakers, and the occasional concert stages and performances... Can you honestly support the argument that Tobin Plaza was better for New York and the Lower Manhattan community that that memorial site and its landscapes?

The last 10 years have been a continual give and take process between the residents, the developers, and governments but I think its is generally accepted that what has emerged as a result of this messy democratic process greatly exceeds what was destroyed (not including lives lost, only the site itself). The original WTC was a monument to eminent domain, government assert its unwelcome will upon the community, and a project without long-term vision... The new WTC is a case study in negotiation, community input from thousands of stockholders, long-term legacy planning, environmental planning and design, etc.

I am not one of those stakeholders... I have only been through JFK twice in the spring and summer of 2004 (which was an awful and shocking experience both times, Phoenix's Sky Harbor airport has been ranked 'America's Friendliest Airport' for numerous consecutive years, a title I cannot imagine JFK getting anytime soon...) so I freely grant to all that my knowledge of the new and old WTC is of an outsider... but based on all that I have seen, read, and researched I cannot imagine how the old WTC could in any objective sense be better that its successor complex...

So, Kanto, my response tries to take some time to thoughtfully argue and support my views in a manner more detailed than 'yup' or 'nope' and I do hope your response will be more involved also... I promise not to get into some silly shouting match as too many on here do since I really have no personal stake in this, I dont live in NY, never visited there, and aside from hoping to see the WTC someday I have no other desire to go to NY... I just wish to hear how others would respond to and defend the opposite perspective on this... Thank you!
As regards that poster you refer to, all I can say is, you must be new here buddy.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #30445
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #30446
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Before some of you start this conversation that non of us care about again, take it to the Private Messages and please spare us..I'm begging you..
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Old March 5th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #30447
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #30448
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OWTC has already become a landmark with its current height
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #30449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgdrewsif View Post

And the new WTC complex reintegrated the street plan of lower Manhattan that the local community desperately wanted (particularly the new building 7 vs the footprint of the old building 7 which cut off lower Manhattan from the rest of the city's streets and views). The new complex provides the memorial complex and hundreds of trees, grasses, waterfalls, and accompanying wildlife (birds and squirrels and whatnot) compared to the brutalist and stark concrete expanse that was the former Austin J. Tobin Plaza that was almost universally regarded as a barren expanse of concrete despite continual efforts to 'liven' it with planters, benches, speakers, and the occasional concert stages and performances... Can you honestly support the argument that Tobin Plaza was better for New York and the Lower Manhattan community that that memorial site and its landscapes?
I'm really not interested in discussing the merits of the old WTC vs the New, because this thread isn't the place for it, but I'll go ahead and oblige the above.

I agree that removing the street grid back in the 1960s was a bad idea, and disrupted the traffic flow of Manhattan, however, the Tobin Plaza did have it's own merit.

Having the site on it's own superblock led to a sort of "urban tranquility". I say this as someone who worked in the towers for four years and often spent my lunches eating in the plaza, watching throngs of goofy tourists bending their necks to take in the tall spectacle before them; outdated clothes, haircuts, fanny packs, polaroids, and all. It was a really nice place to people watch, eat lunch, and take in beautiful NYC summer days. Because it had no vehicular traffic going through it, it was rather calm and dare I say even peaceful compared to the streets immediately adjacent to the site; an urban respite. Granted, it was no Central Park, but it was still a nice relaxing place, not perfect, but it was something. The only big gripe I had with the plaza was it could get really windy, especially at the base of the towers.

While I think the new memorial plaza will be an aesthetic improvement over the original, I'll still always have fond memories of the original.

Hell, I met the woman who is now my wife in the Tobin Plaza in July 2000, that alone was enough for me.

No offense intended, but unless you experienced the first one, I really don't think you're in a position to talk about the original. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities, but that's just the way I feel.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #30450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
As regards that poster you refer to, all I can say is, you must be new here buddy.
Not really... more of a lurker than a poster however unless I feel I actually have something meaningful to contribute... I know that the poster in question has a 'reputation' on this forum but I dont think I should lesson my discourse based on the reputations of others...

(been lurking here for years and years... )
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:38 PM   #30451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapelo View Post
No offense intended, but unless you experienced the first one, I really don't think you're in a position to talk about the original. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities, but that's just the way I feel.
Not at all offended :-) As I said openly, I have never been to Manhattan before, and freely admit I have no strong, visceral reaction to lambast or defend the complex or city either way... Having grown up in Ohio, and now living in Phoenix (with a semester in central London and 8 months teaching in Abu Dhabi in there somewhere), my concept of the world is invariably different than those of New Yorkers... I don't think I would mentally last more than a few hours in a place like Manhattan with the crowded streets, all the people, noise, traffic, etc. but that does not lessen my intrigue and fascination of a place like NYC...

On the contrary, I enjoyed your anecdote about the old WTC and the 'tranquility' and 'respite' you found there... a concept I would not have though of, thank you!
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Old March 5th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #30452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgdrewsif View Post
On the contrary, I enjoyed your anecdote about the old WTC and the 'tranquility' and 'respite' you found there... a concept I would not have though of, thank you!
Haha awesome. I wasn't trying to flame you or anything, I just felt like the tranquil aspect of the Tobin Plaza had to be explained. Because it's an aspect of the old WTC that gets overlooked. Yeah, it wasn't pretty, yeah it was windy, but it was a great place, and I miss it.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:38 PM   #30453
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #30454
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Posted by lofter1 at WNY, (we had been told the podium glass wouldn't start till early 2013, maybe things have changed?),

"From the March 2012 PANYNJ WTC Progress Report:

One World Trade Center’s Exterior
Shimmers with New Podium Wall Glass Panels

... Starting this month, the walls of the 186-foot-tall 1 WTC podium are being clad in vertical glass panels to create a dynamic exterior that will animate the ground level experience of the building for pedestrians.

More than 4,000 frosted glass fins, each measuring 13 feet 4 inches by two feet, are being specially created by the contractor Permasteelisa. The glass fins will attach to the exterior of the podium wall at varying angles to create a series of v-shaped wing effects along the building surface. In addition to its aesthetic appeal, the v-shaped glass cladding pattern will provide needed ventilation for the mechanical systems within the podium— including a 1.2-megawatt, next-generation fuel-cell plant housed above the lobby.

One WTC uses a new form of high- performance, low-emittance (low-E) glass coating technology on its glass panels to maximize sunlight and minimize heat gain within the building. This glass coating is also reflective, creating a shimmering effect on the building’s surface. In addition, the podium wall will use concealed energy-efficient LEDs to create a soft exterior glow.

The podium cladding installation is a critical element of 1 WTC’s aesthetic. The tower is scheduled to top off at 104 floors and 1,776 feet above street level (including its spire). Upon completion of its exterior structure this year, 1 WTC will be the tallest skyscraper in the United States ...

• The podium’s new glass panels reflect, refract, and transmit light much like the water cascading in the nearby memorial pools.

• The low-emittance (low-E) coatings on 1 WTC’s glass panels are microscopically thin layers of metal or metallic oxide that block the transfer of heat from sunlight through the window. Though made of metal, these layers are virtually invisible."
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #30455
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So podium glass soon? That's awesome! I can't wait, it'll make 1 WTC look so much better. If it is true that it's starting this month, it shouldn't take long to do the whole podium. Maybe a month or two?
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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #30456
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Originally Posted by WTCNewYork View Post
So podium glass soon? That's awesome! I can't wait, it'll make 1 WTC look so much better. If it is true that it's starting this month, it shouldn't take long to do the whole podium. Maybe a month or two?
I recall the original Oct '08 PA schedule stated it would take about six months to install the podium glass. I don't know if that schedule applys here. But I do think it will take longer than two months.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #30457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgdrewsif View Post
Kanto, if you are going to type this:
"As do I... yes we all greatly miss the old WTC... but what is replacing them is in almost every sense superior to what was lost (physical nope, safety yup, engineering yup, aesthetics nope, integration into surrounding community nope and street grid yup, environmental impact yup)"

I think it fair to know why you do not feel that the new WTC will not be physically superior, aesthetically superior, or better integrated into the surrounding community than the old WTC?

As I see it, the new WTC buildings are airier, roomier, let in far more natural light, and provide much better comforts for building occupants (some of the office photos I have seen from the original towers are downright claustrophobic and dire looking). From the outside the entire complex is covered in glass and beautifully reflects the lights and skyline of neighboring buildings and even Jersey City is clearly reflected in the almost mirror-like finish of 4WTC in many photos I have seen... The old towers, while they had become familiar landmark, were in many ways a brutalist appendage upon the base of Manhattan and buildings 3 (hotel) and 4, 5, 6, and tower 7 were hardly renowned as attractive or memorable architectural works from an aesthetic standpoint compared to the new Towers 1, 2, 3, 4, the museum pavilion, and the Calatrava-designed transit hall which are generally beautiful and shimmering structures even if towers 3 and 4 are not 'revolutionary' in their overall structural designs...

And the new WTC complex reintegrated the street plan of lower Manhattan that the local community desperately wanted (particularly the new building 7 vs the footprint of the old building 7 which cut off lower Manhattan from the rest of the city's streets and views). The new complex provides the memorial complex and hundreds of trees, grasses, waterfalls, and accompanying wildlife (birds and squirrels and whatnot) compared to the brutalist and stark concrete expanse that was the former Austin J. Tobin Plaza that was almost universally regarded as a barren expanse of concrete despite continual efforts to 'liven' it with planters, benches, speakers, and the occasional concert stages and performances... Can you honestly support the argument that Tobin Plaza was better for New York and the Lower Manhattan community that that memorial site and its landscapes?

The last 10 years have been a continual give and take process between the residents, the developers, and governments but I think its is generally accepted that what has emerged as a result of this messy democratic process greatly exceeds what was destroyed (not including lives lost, only the site itself). The original WTC was a monument to eminent domain, government assert its unwelcome will upon the community, and a project without long-term vision... The new WTC is a case study in negotiation, community input from thousands of stockholders, long-term legacy planning, environmental planning and design, etc.

I am not one of those stakeholders... I have only been through JFK twice in the spring and summer of 2004 (which was an awful and shocking experience both times, Phoenix's Sky Harbor airport has been ranked 'America's Friendliest Airport' for numerous consecutive years, a title I cannot imagine JFK getting anytime soon...) so I freely grant to all that my knowledge of the new and old WTC is of an outsider... but based on all that I have seen, read, and researched I cannot imagine how the old WTC could in any objective sense be better that its successor complex...

So, Kanto, my response tries to take some time to thoughtfully argue and support my views in a manner more detailed than 'yup' or 'nope' and I do hope your response will be more involved also... I promise not to get into some silly shouting match as too many on here do since I really have no personal stake in this, I dont live in NY, never visited there, and aside from hoping to see the WTC someday I have no other desire to go to NY... I just wish to hear how others would respond to and defend the opposite perspective on this... Thank you!
If you want to talk about this in more detail create a thread about it in the Architecture section

Btw, I have new pics

image hosted on flickr

WTC sunset 4 by GSG999, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

LOWER MANHATTAN SKYLINE 3/5/2012 by NYMAN2010, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

One World Trade Center Progress March 2012 by RBudhu, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

One World Trade Center Progress March 2012 #2 by RBudhu, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

March 5, 2012 by terryballard, on Flickr

And the PA cam at the end

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Old March 6th, 2012, 01:09 AM   #30458
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pictures 1, 3, and 4 are some of the best i have ever seen. WOW
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Old March 6th, 2012, 01:41 AM   #30459
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Old March 6th, 2012, 02:04 AM   #30460
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Quote:
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Wow, great picture. Thanks!
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