Terraces vs. All-seaters

[Rev Stickleback]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

When I said football got wealthy was in a sense of dealing with far more money, higher salaries, lavish stadia, £ 30.000.000 transfer fees, all of which requires increased revenues.

Higher fees/wages have on the whole been driven by tv revenue, not ticket prices. It's this extra cash that's created the "arms race", as you called it. Clubs are living in a dreamworld, where their current debts will be paid off by the next tv revenue rise.

If the higher revenues weren't there then wages and fees would be lower. Even in irresponsible times, money that can be paid out is limited by what can come in.

Some people on this thread and others similar appear to feel "nostalgic" of times in which players rarely ventured abroad and were mostly from withing the region the club is located. A rather backward vision.

How would having all the best Dutch stars playing in Holland, rather than abroad, be a backward step for the Dutch league?

[Luigi742]

Terraces work if you have crush barriers to stop people from surging foward.

See nib Stadium in perth, I go there all the time for rugby and football games, and I usually stand in the terraces for the football. Never once have I felt like I was going to get trapped in a surge.

[Nikola10]

off topic- how do Brossia get over 95% every game

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by Nikola10

off topic- how do Brossia get over 95% every game

cheap ass tickets,cheap ass beer,sausages;great stadium design and great footie on pitch.

[Nikola10]

hahahahhahahahaha thanks LucianPopa1000..............but how cheap? 10 euros?

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by Nikola10

hahahahhahahahaha thanks LucianPopa1000..............but how cheap? 10 euros?

Yes the standing tickets are cheap,I think less than 15 euros.
Everybody knows Bundesliga tickets are somewhat cheap,cheap i'd say looking at their very modern and well designed capacious stadiums, the fact that wages in Germany are ,well we know here
PL prices are high,all people complain ,especialy the fans of the big clubs.Chelsea ,Arsenal are uber expensive ,let us not forget wembley

[GreenHornet553]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

Yes the standing tickets are cheap,I think less than 15 euros.
Everybody knows Bundesliga tickets are somewhat cheap,cheap i'd say looking at their very modern and well designed capacious stadiums, the fact that wages in Germany are ,well we know here
PL prices are high,all people complain ,especialy the fans of the big clubs.Chelsea ,Arsenal are uber expensive ,let us not forget wembley

Wait how much is the average yearly wage in Germany in terms of USD?

[Nikola10]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

Yes the standing tickets are cheap,I think less than 15 euros.
Everybody knows Bundesliga tickets are somewhat cheap,cheap i'd say looking at their very modern and well designed capacious stadiums, the fact that wages in Germany are ,well we know here
PL prices are high,all people complain ,especialy the fans of the big clubs.Chelsea ,Arsenal are uber expensive ,let us not forget wembley

My Main Man is SMARTTTT

[The Sloth]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

cheap ass tickets,cheap ass beer,sausages;great stadium design and great footie on pitch.

There's a big thing about Germany having higher attendances than in England. But that's mainly for their top Bundesliga clubs, English clubs have some staggering attendances for lower clubs, even more so when you see the prices of tickets.

I really would love to see what attendances we could achieve in England, if tickets were as cheap as the Bundesliga, with free local transport, cheap refreshments and give-away price safe standing tickets. Rip-off Britain.

[alwn]

Originally Posted by The Sloth

There's a big thing about Germany having higher attendances than in England. But that's mainly for their top Bundesliga clubs, English clubs have some staggering attendances for lower clubs, even more so when you see the prices of tickets.

I really would love to see what attendances we could achieve in England, if tickets were as cheap as the Bundesliga, with free local transport, cheap refreshments and give-away price safe standing tickets. Rip-off Britain.

2011/2012
1. Bundesliga vs Premiere League 45,116 vs 34,600
2. Bundesliga vs Championship 17,729 vs 17,233
3. Liga vs League1 4,568 vs 7,375

So the english superiority show up only on the third level where in Germany also the second teams are allowed to participate.
As for the Premiere league, to be fair they are bounded by the stadiums capacities. They could easily reach the German figures if Arsenal would have a stadium with 80 k instead of 60 k, Liverpool 70 k instead of 45k, Chelsea 60 k instead of 42k, Tottenham 65k instead of 36k and so on..

[LucianPopa1000]

In all fairness german league has a substantially larger attendance because they have terracing.In the terracing sections there are 2 standing fans occuping the place normally taken by one seat.In all-seater configuration i dont know if german stadiums are bigger,and if they are,its a small difference.

[matthemod]

The argument here in regards to re-introducing terraced areas, is that even though theoretically it should make sense to offer cheaper tickets for standing areas, it's unlikely clubs will be willing to take the financial risk, or if so won't be offering tickets at vastly cheaper rate than normal seated areas (maybe £2-3), which are already ridiculously high.

In addition to this, you then have the cost of re-designing and building terraced areas which the average cash strapped club won't exactly be happy to fork out for, especially for those who have just spent millions of building a new all-seated stadium. Unfortunately "it works in Germany", isn't a good enough reason for clubs here, even if there wasn't already existing legislation banning terraces.

Edit: Post no. 500!

[Werkself]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

In all fairness german league has a substantially larger attendance because they have terracing.In the terracing sections there are 2 standing fans occuping the place normally taken by one seat.In all-seater configuration i dont know if german stadiums are bigger,and if they are,its a small difference.

Well, Bundesliga offers more modern and bigger stadiums. In my opinion in regard to the high incomes of the PL, England should have better stadiums. But, we should not complain, the real disgrace is Italy.

[Werkself]

Originally Posted by GreenHornet553

Wait how much is the average yearly wage in Germany in terms of USD?

About 24.000 EUR after taxes.

In case of being a Leverkusen fan:

Terracing: 160 EUR Season plus 10-20 EUR per national or international cup
Seater: 300 EUR Season plus 20-40 EUR per national or international cup
Seasonticket can be borrowed to others!
Awaygametickets are ofter accompanied by free organized trainconnections
Clubmembership is free for season ticket owners
Gameday magazin: free
Nearby transit by train, bus, metro: free
Beer 0,5 Liters: 3.50 EUR
Sausage: 3.50 EUR

So even with low income its really a gift beeing german footy fan. Of course, even in Germany there are some club that are ripping their fans of, but if you choose a good club your football life is luxourious and enjoyable.

[Leedsrule]

Originally Posted by matthemod

In addition to this, you then have the cost of re-designing and building terraced areas which the average cash strapped club won't exactly be happy to fork out for, especially for those who have just spent millions of building a new all-seated stadium. Unfortunately "it works in Germany", isn't a good enough reason for clubs here, even if there wasn't already existing legislation banning terraces.

I agree mostly with what you're saying, but for a club like Man City or Arsenal to convert seating to standing it's not that difficult. In fact, if they use Railseats (Which look worse but make it much easier to switch between standing and seating) all they have to do is take out all the seats in one end or whatever and replace them with railseats. If you want to make it a proper terrace then take out all the seats, put a concrete step between each row to double the number of rows (So you'd have 20cmx40cm going up rather than 40 and 80) and then put barriers in.

[LucianPopa1000]

All-seater all the way.Much safer,more comfort(i couldn't possible stand for 2 hours :nuts),and very importantly,it looks so much better .A stadium without seating in one of the ends looks bad.If its a world class stadium like veltins arena looks ridiculous.JMHO

[0657]

Supporters prefeer a stand without seats, the rest of the match going audience probably prefeer seats. As a supporter i`m glad that my local club listen to the supporters and let us remove the seats in our stand before each match we play at home, only condition is that we put them back up again after, as we share a ground with the national team. My self, i could never sit and watch a game when my team plays, just something fundamentaly wrong about it, it jsut brings you to silence, you cant sint, cant get involved, you just feel restrained. People didnt die because of terracing, people (in the 80s) died because of stadiums in a terrible condition. With the comfort and safety of the modern day stadiums, i think its safe to bring back terracing for small parts or sections of stadiums in the UK, and also in the european competitions. I mean, the supporters are standing anyways, the seats makes it more dangerous imo.

[HaifaB]

I Do not know how this is going in all the other leagues but here in Israel even though we only have all seated stadiums 80% of the people do not realy sit , they remaind standing for the whole match ..

[Nikola10]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

All-seater all the way.Much safer,more comfort(i couldn't possible stand for 2 hours :nuts),and very importantly,it looks so much better .A stadium without seating in one of the ends looks bad.If its a world class stadium like veltins arena looks ridiculous.JMHO

i can stand all day long.... in turkey,greece,serbia,croatia,russia and other countries they mostly stand all game

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by Nikola10

i can stand all day long.... in turkey,greece,serbia,croatia,russia and other countries they mostly stand all game

I cant stand standing,actually i have to buy VIP seats when i go to games,i cant fit at all in a normal seat,not on typical narrowish seats at least.
Uusually ppl stand here in Romania when its very cold (to protect their asses ),and in the ends.I think the people used to the sides prefer to sit,and those who usually see the game from the ends prefer standing,terracing.And since the majority of ppl would prefer to sit on the sides,very probably there are more in favour of seating than terracing,standing.