Should gay men be allowed to give blood?

[dinp]

I just misread this as "Should gay men be allowed to cry?"



Am I awake yet?

But the answer is no, they shouldn't. No crying under any circumstance, it just plays to the stereotype

[Core Rising]

Originally Posted by MPJK

That sounds like a baseless fear campaign. You could just as easily lie thereafter and say "No, I have sex with women" and "I had no idea I even had AIDS". The state doesn't automatically know your sexual history.

No they do not, but should your defence unravel you could then be convicted of perjury.

And by the way, my above suggestion of lying was directed at those who obviously know they don't have AIDS because if you do have AIDS, gay or straight, then you shouldn't be donating blood in the first place. Fortunately all blood gets tested so it shouldn't even matter if someone decides to lie or not

Indeed, anyone who knows they have AIDS, gay or straight, and donates blood should be prosecuted for attempted gross bodily harm

Just because all blood gets tested, doesn't mean that mistakes are not made. Mistakes are made due to human error, and you can never be 100% certain that of all the blood donated and tested, there will never be any infected with the AIDS virus. However I do think it is ridiculous that anyone should be banned from donating based on their sexual preferences. It does appear to be prejudiced, even if there is some logic behind the fact that gay people are statistically more likely to have AIDS. The screening process ought to be good enough to eliminate any infected blood donated unknowingly.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by pricemazda

But can you imagine if there was a ban on black people giving blood? It simply wouldn't happen or be tolerated. It's another example of the hierarchy of equal rights. 54% of the UK HIV+ population is black african according to THT.

Would not have a problem if Africans were banned. There are White and Asian Africans so it wouldn't just be Blacks affected.

Much ado about nothing.
If there is a 2% chance of HIV being there. That is 2% too high for me

I wasn't allowed to give blood for a year when I came back from Africa.
But I value that level of care and attention to detail by the NHS. Just makes sense to me

If 54% of UK HIV is Black. I would support a ban on Blacks giving blood as well.

[RobH]

It's a risk analysis and it may well be that the conclusion is "this is a risk worth taking". You need to weigh up the potential benifits as well as the risk - which is something which possibly hasn't had enough discussion in this thread.

There is a greater risk when gay people give blood compared to straight people. But I'm sure I read an article a while back which basically countered that the risk is so small, and the benifits potenitally so great, that's it's crazy that such a strict a ban is still in place.

And that's an argument from a purely medical perspective.

EDIT: Oh, in fact I see that since this thread was started this argument has been accepted and the law made more lenient.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14824310

[desertswo]

This is an interesting conversation on several levels; especially for those of us who have achieved official status as “senior citizens,” at least in some communities, during the age of “blood born pathogens.” I won’t leave it just at HIV because there are a lot of nasty surprises out there lying in wait for those who are either irresponsible or just unlucky. Some of us have heard, and seen and painfully experienced a lot in the last 33 years and counting. Those experiences have made us necessarily gun shy, because society has required us to be gun shy. Having just reread that last sentence I know there are some who will love the potential fun with the very unintentional double-entendre, but fuck it; it’s early on a Saturday morning here in the desert, and a man can be only so creative.

In a lot of ways, HIV deprived me of my shot at the American Baby Boomer dream of unlimited sex, drugs and rock-n-roll; well, at least the sex part. I’ve had all the rock-n-roll I can handle, and the drugs of course have their own baggage, but the sex; I could have done with a lot more of that!!! After years of growing up less than affluent, I was out on my own, finally paid well enough, not great but well enough, had an interesting occupation, and the car that goes along with (a 1979 Corvette Stingray . . . all new Navy Ensigns have new Corvettes; it’s like a law or something), and I lived in Southern California! How cool is that?

Then right around the time I really had the ways and means to start testing that proposition, people started getting all kinds of sick from something very strange and insidious and seemed, quite naturally to some in the über-religious US, to be the wages of sin finally come home to roost. My wife and I tell people we’ve been married 39 years. The truth is we’ve actually been married for 32 years. We say 39, because we’ve known each other and been romantically involved, originally off and on, for that long; a relationship going back to the beginning of our senior year in high school. As I said, we had been involved on and off ever since then; up to the point that bad shit started to happen around us. It was sort of like the scene in the film Animal House, when facing expulsion from Faber College for violating the terms of the school’s “double-secret probation,” John Belushi is heard to rant, “Seven years of college down the drain! I might as well join the fucking Peace Corps!” Well, for my wife and me it was, “Might as well fucking get married!” So we did. Probably would have eventually anyway. I always knew she was “the one,” but the sowing of my wild oats was truncated long before I had imagined or intended they would be. I’ve always felt “cheated” out of my California-born, American Baby Boomer birthright because of those events.

Regardless, let us just say that my world view was very much shaped by the specter of HIV, and in all seriousness, it was a pretty frightening time to be alive. I lost people who were close to me; or at least moved in many of the same circles. They included a much loved elder-cousin who was a very closeted, but nonetheless always known about and accepted in the family, gay man; a much less loved (not because he was gay, but because he was a legitimately psychopathic asshole) brother-in-law who was not in anyway closeted and an intravenous drug user into the bargain; three gay friends from high school, one of whose once beautiful (what can I say? If the adjective fits, you use it) looks were so ravaged by Kaposi’s Sarcoma, that he would only see certain people. I’ve always been proud of the fact that I was one of them; one former Navy boss (again, his non-regulation sexuality was something some of us suspected, but weren’t losing much sleep over); and one other shipmate I’ve always wondered about because he wasted away in 1979 of something unidentified at the time, that I’ve come to believe was AIDS in the interim. I honestly don’t know whether that was ever confirmed in the years after his death, but it was very strange and unnerving at the time. Throw in all of the celebrities with whom one came of age, and figuratively welcomed into our homes via the television or the stereo system, and one cannot reasonably be blamed for being a bit frightened of what they didn’t understand; what, if we are totally honest with ourselves, no one understood at that time.

However, one really came to understand the level of paranoia that was achieved when my wife broke her right hip in 1981. There is a whole story there involving a bank robbery and a lot of other odd twists and turns, but the bottom line is that she had to have a total hip replacement done in 1984. This was done at the UCLA Medical Center by the guru of modern joint replacement, a fellow by the name of Dr. Harlan Amstutz. He told her, while doing an exam to determine whether he would even accept her as a patient that she needed to start “banking” her own blood right then and there, and that it needed to be available at UCLA if he was to do the surgery. Blood would be made available from the Red Cross supplies in Los Angeles, but that doing one’s own “autologous” donations absolutely ensures that the potential for acquiring HIV, which was by then known to be the culprit, was reduced to the bare minimum. So she did. Every two or three weeks she religiously reported to the Red Cross in San Diego to have a pint taken and put into her own “box” there for safekeeping. In between she took extra iron and vitamins and ate lots of red meat. She finally had the six pints recommended, and they were shipped up to LA at the same time I drove her to UCLA to have the surgery done.

What really got my attention though was that while there, who should show up on the floor as a second year resident physician at UCLA doing her tour in orthopedic surgery, but a friend we both knew from high school. We’d kind of lost track of her once we graduated, but she was one of those young ladies whom you knew was going to do well no matter what she did. She was not only brilliant and personable, but not hard to look at either. Originally from Poland, there is another whole Cold War story of family separation and all there, but all that aside, she radiated “success in the making.”

That is until she and I had lunch in the cafeteria one day while I was visiting (my wife was hospitalized there about ten days altogether, and I staid at my sister’s place down the road) during which she confided that she was seriously considering giving up the practice of medicine before ever having really starting. The “why” of it came down to two things; fear and anger. She was scared to death of HIV and angry because she felt she was being “forced” (her words, not mine) to treat people who could conceivably kill her with their “precious bodily fluids” (forgive me the tip of my cap to Stanley Kramer). It was one of those times you just listen and let the other person do their core dump. I didn’t offer any advice save to say that it seemed a shame to throw away all of that education and training, and oh by the way, “Have you mentioned any of this to your parents?”

I asked that question knowing full well that invoking them, who had literally risked their lives trying to get her, as well as themselves, out of Eastern Europe at a time when that could be a true life and death propositions, would have a stealing effect on her constitution. I don’t know if my involvement helped her decide her course in life; I rather doubt it, but she is now the “urologist to the stars” in Beverly Hills, so someone got her attention. The point is however, in case it was lost in my rambling, that at that time even people who in theory knew all there was to know, didn’t know what the knew or didn’t know, and were fearful because of that lack of knowledge! So why should we mere mortals not be afraid?

OK, back to the real reason why we are here, and the preceding history of “fear and loathing on the HIV trail” notwithstanding; I'm not gay, but I went for many years not being able to give blood because while in the Navy I had been to Africa more than once. Interestingly, it wasn't because of the high incidence of HIV there that people like me were banned but because of a far older malady; malaria. I've never had malaria either, but I guess if you've spent any time at all in an area where it is endemic, they assume you've been exposed, and that's problematic in its own way. I don't know if I'm still persona non grata but I kept being turned away, so I quit trying. I suspect these days I’d be rejected because of all of the medications I take daily to keep me alive due to other health issues.

Regardless, one thing I always found humorous is the way, at least in the States, they keep asking the same question about 12 different ways during the pre-donation interview. It goes something like: "If male, have you ever, even just once, had sex with a man, that included anal penetration, however slight?" Or, “If a woman, have you to your knowledge, had sex with a bisexual man?” As I said, they keep asking questions like that in different ways throughout the interview in an apparent attempt to snare you in a lie or whatever. They even ask: "Have you ever been to prison?" It’s one of the few experiences where “No” doesn’t mean “No” until apparently it does; but then they test the donated blood anyway because they assume everyone is lying. I suppose it’s an effective, if a bit invasive to those who are simply trying to be good, charitable, and altruistic citizens, protocol.

Whatever, I don't know what the risks are these days, but if the Red Cross were to declare the supply safe because of all the advanced testing they do, I wouldn't be losing too much sleep over who is donating.

[tomo90]

Originally Posted by streetlegal

Statistically, in San Francisco, one in four gay men has HIV. A statistic I have always found shocking.

Its 1 in 7 in London. However, these places were a magnet for gays back in the day (still are but all major cities now have a gay world) which may explain why. Older gays were in their prime in the 80s and safe sex wasnt really on the agenda.

[tomo90]

Originally Posted by Core Rising

Because on the off chance that you do in fact have AIDS, you would be liable to be prosecuted for attempted gross bodily harm, or gross bodily harm or even manslaughter should that blood actually be used. A straight guy on the otherhand would not be liable to be prosecuted in the same situation.

Its HIV not AIDS. You die when you get AIDS, you can live for years with HIV. There is a difference.

[Nightjar]

You can also live for (many) years with AIDS.

[Lailax]

Originally Posted by tomo90

Its HIV not AIDS. You die when you get AIDS, you can live for years with HIV. There is a difference.

Who cares, it's still a death sentence or at least severely impacts how you live

Personally I think anyone who spreads it knowingly should be done for murder and be castrated (or just made infertile)

[tomo90]

Once HIV develops into AIDS you do not have long to live which is why you are on drugs for the rest of your life to stop HIV from developing into AIDS. It just annoys me when people use the term AIDS when what they mean is HIV. You are not infected with AIDS, you are infected with HIV. People like this just show their ignorance to the subject.

[tuten]

HIV is nowhere near the death sentence it used to be. I think you can expect to live with HIV for at least 20 years before it develops into AIDS, a figure that's likely to improve in the future.

In fact if I had to choose between a major cancer and HIV, I think the latter would be less devastating.

[Nightjar]

Originally Posted by tomo90

Once HIV develops into AIDS you do not have long to live

This is as much of a misconception as the one you're railing against.

[mulattokid]

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

You would have to be a pretty crap gay not to have slept with a man in 10 years

Well there is the rub!

Approximately a 1/3 of gay men never indulge in anal sex

Approximately a 1/3 of gay men always expect to indulge in anal sex...and

Approximately a 1/3 can take it or leave it.

These figures sort of make a mess of a lot of peoples stereotypes about what it is to be gay in some peoples minds.

So when they say 'not slept with a man for 10 years' it does seem to be very arbitrary

[tomo90]

Originally Posted by tuten

HIV is nowhere near the death sentence it used to be. I think you can expect to live with HIV for at least 20 years before it develops into AIDS, a figure that's likely to improve in the future.

In fact if I had to choose between a major cancer and HIV, I think the latter would be less devastating.

Ive read recently that you will most likely live your entire lifespan even without HIV due to advances in medication. It all depends on how long you have had it before being diagnosed etc. Its not something you want obviously but its not a death sentence like in the 80s and even 90s I agree.

[tomo90]

Originally Posted by Nightjar

This is as much of a misconception as the one you're railing against.

Well Im just going off what I have read from reputable sources.

[aek-94]

Originally Posted by Lailax

Personally I think anyone who spreads it knowingly should be done for murder and be castrated (or just made infertile)

I agree with this.