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Old April 27th, 2012, 04:53 AM   #501
JJG
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Originally Posted by buckeyejim View Post
Any time a franchise has to put tarps over seats to lower the seating capacity and they still have a hard time selling out games in the NFL is reason to worry. The Jaguars better start drawing fans or they might have no choice but to relocate and Los Angeles, California has much greater potential than Jacksonville Florida.
Kinda hard to keep fans when your team and ownership sucks. This coming from a Dallas Stars fan who sees a franchise that had one of the best attendence numbers in the NHL and now dwindled thanks to crappy ownership and a not-so-good product. You're not gonna see that much support.

Also, people just want to see the Jags move mostly because they're not even a 20 year old franchise yet. They're the easy target.... which is funny seeing how the Rams, Raiders, and (briefly) Chargers all had their time and fan bases in L.A. already, yet they're quicker to point ot the Jags. Another note for those three teams, unlike the Jaguars, they have stadium issues.

Just sayin'.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 05:02 AM   #502
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations...s-more-stadium


I wonder what the actual total cost would be to build this stadium. Not talking about the cost for the construction. But the total cost, including interest payments and other associated fees.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 07:03 AM   #503
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations...s-more-stadium
I wonder what the actual total cost would be to build this stadium. Not talking about the cost for the construction. But the total cost, including interest payments and other associated fees.
It all depends on how much is financed, and how much are the payments. The cost breakdown of the proposal in the article is $400 million from the state, $427 million from the Vikings and $150 million from a Minneapolis sales tax. The Minneapolis portion will have to be borrowed, and will likely run about $250 million over 25 years to pay off. On the surface, the Vikings' portion shouldn't have to be borrowed, but I don't think that Mr. Wylf has that much cash lying around. It's all up to the suite and PSL sales. And $200 million of that will come from the NFL's G-4 fund, but the Niners have just cleaned it out, so that money might take three to five years to appear. And who knows what evil spell the state legislature will conjure up.

At a guess the $977 million will about double when all is said and done.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 08:06 PM   #504
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...putters-again/

A Senate Committee suggests some taxes focused on the Vikes to fund the stadium.

A move in the right direction. But how about this for something really unique: the Vikes fund their own stadium and lower salaries and raise ticket and concession prices by the same amount as the tax? (You know, like real businesses do if they think it makes sense.) Meanwhile the state and taxpayers stay out of it and focus on education, streamlining government, public services, etc. which is after all what they were elected to do?

And if Roger comes back to town, how about arresting him for attempted blackmail, antitrust and conspiracy to corrupt public officials? Even without convictions it could get some other states and the feds back to doing their jobs and breaking-up arrogant monopolies.

I know, sometimes I get like this; don’t hold it against me.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by pesto View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...putters-again/

A Senate Committee suggests some taxes focused on the Vikes to fund the stadium.

A move in the right direction. But how about this for something really unique: the Vikes fund their own stadium and lower salaries and raise ticket and concession prices by the same amount as the tax? (You know, like real businesses do if they think it makes sense.) Meanwhile the state and taxpayers stay out of it and focus on education, streamlining government, public services, etc. which is after all what they were elected to do?

And if Roger comes back to town, how about arresting him for attempted blackmail, antitrust and conspiracy to corrupt public officials? Even without convictions it could get some other states and the feds back to doing their jobs and breaking-up arrogant monopolies.

I know, sometimes I get like this; don’t hold it against me.

Where I am from, Boston, the notion of the state paying for a stadium is foreign. Bob Kraft built Gillette with his own money. John Henry and Co. made all the renovations (over $200 million) with their own money to Fenway Park. The Jacobs family built the TD Garden with their own money.

Some cities slap tourists with the taxes, I think that's what they're doing down in Miami. I know when I would rent a car out in Seattle, I would get hit win a Safeco Field tax, but I believe tat has finally stopped.

Not sure how the finances are for the state of Minnesota, but if they are bad, I would be a little iffy about using taxpayer money to build a new stadium. Or is they were to, I would rather it be the cheapest option possible, which would mean no roof.

Aside from hosting a Final Four once every 8-9 years and a Super Bowl once in the same time frame, what other big money generating events will a domed stadium in Minneapolis get to host that they weren't able to with the Metro Dome.
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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #506
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I don't blame Minnesotans form not wanted to pay for the stadium, but I also won't blame the Vikings for moving to a free stadium in LA.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 05:32 AM   #507
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I don't blame Minnesotans form not wanted to pay for the stadium, but I also won't blame the Vikings for moving to a free stadium in LA.
FREE?
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Old April 28th, 2012, 05:56 AM   #508
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I don't blame Minnesotans form not wanted to pay for the stadium, but I also won't blame the Vikings for moving to a free stadium in LA.
Minnesota Wild got a new arena from the state, Twins got a new ballpark from the state, Timberwolves got a new dig from the state. How is it fair that vikings dont?
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Old April 28th, 2012, 05:58 AM   #509
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I don't blame Minnesotans form not wanted to pay for the stadium, but I also won't blame the Vikings for moving to a free stadium in LA.
It won't be free. The cost is part ownership in the team that moves there.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #510
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Don't like to pick on Minn, which is generally a nice place (weather aside), but this is getting kind of pathetic. A committee last night votes by 1 vote to send a bill out with NO recommendation? I mean how afraid to give an opinion can you get? There must have been a lot of soiled underwear in the Senate; do they check their gonads at the desk as they walk in?

I mean, seriously, what would Jesse Ventura say? Hell, what would Hubert Humphrey say? Or am I just confused?

And the state is funding their part by hoping that some new types of gambling and some other changes generate enough revenue? Can you imagine the SEC or NYSE or state regulators' reaction if a private company said they plan to fund their new stock issuance from any of these sources? Would you invest?

And some legislators are concerned about the ever-expanding dependence on gambling revenues, both for social reasons and uncertainty of amount. But I guess there is always legalizing and taxing hash, crank and meth if gambling doesn't provide enough funds for Wilf.

These battles seem to bring out the worst in everybody, when they could be opportunities to show the best.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #511
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If Cowboys Stadium is any indication, a lot more than you would think. Motocross, monster trucks, rodeos, mainstream concerts, classical concerts, all kinds of corporate events, high school football playoffs, non-final four college basketball games, regional college football games, even a PBA championship as weird as that sounds. The Dallas Symphony is actually playing at Cowboys Stadium this weekend. I have to say I greatly underestimated how much use Cowboys Stadium would get, but it would have gotten even more events if it was in Downtown Dallas.
You might want to check the upcoming schedule for the Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. It is not nearly as busy as you think. Don't go by what they say is the number of days used, check out the events to see what actual large events take place (the Matis/Smith Wedding Reception may count as a day used but it is hardly a big event). Outside of NFL games, they only have a Kenny Chesney concert in July, the National FFA Conference in October, The Indiana Marching Band Finals in November, a Monster Truck show next January and a Fire Department Conference next April. Outside of NFL games (the main reason these stadiums are built) these large domed/retractable roof stadiums sit empty 90% of the year. They are lucky to have a half dozen big events each year and in the case of Indianapolis, loose a ton of money.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 04:05 AM   #512
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Minnesota Wild got a new arena from the state, Twins got a new ballpark from the state, Timberwolves got a new dig from the state. How is it fair that vikings dont?
It's not fair. But who says life is.

The Timberwolves facility was privately funded when it was built. It was taken over by the city of Minneapolis after the owners fell on hard times.

And your list omitted the UofM's $300 million football stadium (publicly funded). There is a ton of stadium fatigue in Minnesota. Every few years we hear about an owner or group needing millions of public dollars for their team. Eventually people are going to say "enough's enough".

It's looking now like the Republicans want to tie a overall deal with getting some business tax relief, a bonding bill, and a Vikings stadium altogether in order to call a vote by monday. That's a long shot if ever there was one.

The next 48 hours will be very interesting.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #513
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It really made no sense to not build vikes a new dig before Twins. Vokes has been asking for one for over 2 decades now.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #514
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This gets more entertaining every day. It would be an interesting footnote to history if the Vikings future in Minn was determined by public reaction to Caleb King (one of their players) beating another guy brain-dead. Sort of the same treatment that Goodell gave the legislature.

As a side note, I notice that Gov. Dayton no longer says the Vikings will leave if the vote goes against them; instead he says that “all bets are off”. I think he would only use this language if he knows they’re not moving AND is afraid the vote is going to lose. Otherwise, there is no exposure from claiming they are moving.

Or he could just have a poor communications and PR office.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 10:27 PM   #515
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I really don't see the Jaguars moving.... I really don't.

At least, not to L.A. and not anytime soon.
Yeah, in all honesty Jacksonville doesn't really sound like an NFL city to me anyway. I'd like to see the Jaguars leave Florida personally.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #516
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It really made no sense to not build vikes a new dig before Twins. Vokes has been asking for one for over 2 decades now.
It makes plenty of sense. 81 home dates versus 9. 3 million attendance per season version 500,000. On a bang per buck basis, baseball stadiums are far better than football stadiums.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 06:01 AM   #517
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Yeah, in all honesty Jacksonville doesn't really sound like an NFL city to me anyway. I'd like to see the Jaguars leave Florida personally.
Yeah, well that's just not happening right now.

But you know you're not the only one who wants to see the Jags leave.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #518
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No vote is likely today. But the legislature has hinted they will probably extend this session for several more days or even longer.
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Old May 1st, 2012, 04:11 AM   #519
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It makes plenty of sense. 81 home dates versus 9. 3 million attendance per season version 500,000. On a bang per buck basis, baseball stadiums are far better than football stadiums.
If they build a indoor stadium its gonna get more major events in to Twin Cities area, like SuperBowl and Wrestlemania.
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Old May 1st, 2012, 07:37 PM   #520
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If they build a indoor stadium its gonna get more major events in to Twin Cities area, like SuperBowl and Wrestlemania.
Probably just one Super Bowl; there are too many warm weather sites and big cities competing for Minn to make it onto any rotation.

btw, does anyone really believe the Vikes are leaving if the legislature doesn't give them the money? I don't think even the guv believes that. My guess is that Wilf will look very serious and say that they will have to explore other options for a year and then try again and again until some legislature is dumb enough to vote the money.

But we'll only find out if they vote "no".
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