Constitution Thread

[annman]

Why am I hysteric when I'm being sarcastic in the wake of obvious bigotry?

Kwazi... the bigoted slip is showing. I never use derogatory terms aimed at a race group or direct individual. You like the unoriginal Mein Fuhrer rhetoric, direct copy of an ANC home affairs cadre utterances in the Western Cape. It's almost like your rebuttal is simply an "ANC propaganda regurgitation mechanism."

You do realise, you're commentary is borderline bigotry? So, Americans should be ashamed of voting in Obama? (how dare I vote for a minority in the USA? Shame upon me) I should adhere to your racially-divisive dogma of majorities are the only "true" citizens of their respective nations and have a right to positions of political power.

Really dude... shame... any open-minded, lateral, non-racial thinking South African would rubbish your opinions as pseudo-nouveau-fascist.

So sad, after the dawn of democracy, the ANC used our terrible history to bring races together and used Apartheid as a tool to drive racially-divisive rhetoric and policy from the collective memory of the nation. Then, they did a 180 about turn and now use Apartheid as a wedge in both their rhetoric and proposed policy between race groups.

I'm not going to claim ownership of this analogy, was used by an Xhosa gentleman in a news column yesterday: "The ANC continues to blame white capital, Aparthied, Colonialism, media... anything, to brush aside their own lack of accountability. Can Botha be blamed for Limpopo's bankruptcy? Can Verwoed be blamed for the eTolling catastrophe? Can Hertzog be blamed for the "new Bantu education" system where mostly African learners are kept uneducated by SADTU? Can Malan be blamed for cadre-deployment destroying delivery and governance in rural municipalities? The analogy I'll use is putting a cold pot on a fire. Yes, 18-years is short to right all the wrongs of the past. But, when you take that pot off the fire 18-years later and it's colder than before, then something is definitely wrong with the fire."

[SUNS 25]

Nope, I dont like that name. It's very bad to give that name on a person. just that I think Kwazimoto not like that you criticize ANC every day.

Sincerely, I am a little surprised with your comment, I liked well the answer that Diggerdorg answered him.

I never have to show in this forum some supports from my part of the ANC, I tell simply the facts, without thought back.

You knew, I am a Gabonese young man, twenty six years, having made long studies, and which has deep knowing of South Africa.
I can say to you things on the south African politics which you could not even imagine.

The DA is still seen by the great majority of South African as a sectarian and ambiguous party on its real intentions (I dare not to go farther).
Any time, consider I, I am a person who appreciates Helen Zille a lot.

peace!!

[Lydon]

Originally Posted by Kwazimoto

Lastly and on a side note, recent incidents on twitter, 2 stupid white kids expressing their true feelings about blacks

Oh? And what about little miss black model saying all whites should be killed? You conveniently left that one out.

Regardless, like you said - it's your prerogative to choose retardation if you wish. The perfect example of the ANC dumbing down the population through the so-called education they're dishing out. Who needs loyalty when you need 30% to pass?

Shame...you think you're somehow spiting the likes of us, when really you're just another pawn in the ANC's game.

Thank goodness that the entire population doesn't consist of such mindless little sheep.

[Diggerdog]

Originally Posted by SUNS 25

Nope, I dont like that name. It's very bad to give that name on a person. just that I think Kwazimoto not like that you criticize ANC every day.

Sincerely, I am a little surprised with your comment, I liked well the answer that Diggerdorg answered him.

I never have to show in this forum some supports from my part of the ANC, I tell simply the facts, without thought back.

You knew, I am a Gabonese young man, twenty six years, having made long studies, and which has deep knowing of South Africa.
I can say to you things on the south African politics which you could not even imagine.

The DA is still seen by the great majority of South African as a sectarian and ambiguous party on its real intentions (I dare not to go farther).
Any time, consider I, I am a person who appreciates Helen Zille a lot.

peace!!

Is is true that a majority of black South Africans see the DA as racist or elite. And that is the campaign the ANC push.
Unfortunately, it will continue working for a while, but each year the DA grows stronger.
That is because people that live in DA run areas can see the difference - there is no comparison between DA municipalities and ANC ones at the moment.
So the tide is turning.

The DA must do more to change their image, rightly or wrongly, if they are to topple the ANC.
The vast majority of the poorest SA citizens see Helen Zille like Kwazimoto sees her - as some racist white chick. They at least have the excuse of not being educated, whereas Kwazi should know better.

It is so unfair that a woman that put everything on the line to fight apartheid is seen to be racist! But life isn't fair, and there are things the DA can do, and are doing, to grow their support.

[annman]

Suns... I was not taking a swipe at you, was taking a swipe at the other gentleman's unbridled bigoted rhetoric and unsubstantiated racial profiling and attacks. Just, you labeling me as hysterical was not really on queue.

Yes, I admit I do criticise the ANC a lot. However, the question should be, is that criticism valid or not? Not whether someone is critical or not. That's the problem with Africa, we don't criticise enough... we allow politicians and those in power to run roughshod over our countries, accepting mediocre or poor as being good enough, because... well, this is Africa... NO! Perhaps this has its origins in the past where either the chief told his followers to shut it, the colonial powers told us to shut it or the National Party in SA told us to shut it. But, in democracy, nobody should shut it... it is our responsibility as citizens to hold governments who claim they're democratic, to account.

Just because this is Africa does not mean we deserve less, that we don't deserve better than great, accountable, responsible and moral leadership. The majority thinks because a liberation organisation freed us, that is enough... it simply isn't. If you can liberate, but you can't govern or administrate, then one should be taken to task for it.

Analogy: Apartheid can be compared to having no home for many. So, the ANC was good at building a structure... finally, many had a home. Then the occupants wanted plumbing and electricity, but the builder keeps getting the water and wiring all wrong, actually, the occupants have been shocked on numerous occasions and water seldom flows. The occupants are the fools for not thanking the builder, but then not hiring an electrician and plumber to finish the house and constantly asking the builder to do what he/she clearly is unable to implement properly.

Analogy two: It's like saying your best friend will always be your best friend because he took care of you and helped you when your parents passed away... then in every year thereafter, he treats you like crap and always blames someone else for his terrible behavior. Life just doesn't work like that... you can't run off past good deeds forever, when your current deeds are undesirable and never improve. You'll call the friendship quits.

Politicians deserve nobody's undying loyalty... period! The ruling party uses our terrible history as a weapon, either perpetuating the evils of Bantu-education to keep the masses uneducated allowing them to keep them indentured servants to the state (welfare/handouts/RDP etc.) and unable to formulate educated and logical opinions on governance; Or they use Apartheid to ignite fear in the hearts of Black-Africans, using race as a weapon to keep themselves in power (i.e. we own democracy, you vote for someone else, they'll bring back Apartheid). This ensures, no matter how much they abuse the electorate, the electorate votes for them out of fear, not for future progress and current track-record.

A democracy based on pure fear, will eventually collapse. Regardless of whether they're DA, ANC, IFP, ACDP or whomever... you don't deliver, you should get punished at the ballot box.

[SUNS 25]

Annman, Dear Friend.

Your thought is logical, very logical even. However, the facts are the facts.
You knew, I have worked during 1 year in Paris in France (2011) in an agency of poll called Ipsos, we had realized a poll on the voters South African on their perception of the DA, and the results reflect what I said in the previous comment.

Peace and Love!!

[ToxicBunny]

How many people did your poll interview? from what areas? etc etc?

Unless you polled more than 50% of the entire population, your conclusions will be than likely be very biased and possibly even incorrect.

[annman]

An aside, but on topic: Have people seen, CNN International is running a series called "South Africa: Cracks in the Rainbow," focusing on that they call, a slow-and-steady abandoning of Mandela's ideals by the ruling party. They're already focused on attacks on the constitution, judiciary and eroding media freedoms. Not a very good when you make an international news media expose for these reasons; how on earth did this happen that's we're slowly becoming a pariah again!

Admittedly, the ANC has had good-standing overseas for many, many years, as many ruling party supporters correctly point out. The local media's vilification of populism, corruption and radicalism in the ruling party has been a factor mostly contained by SA's borders. Seems this boundary is eroding and spilling into the international realm. The defense of "international good-standing" and "confidence of world-leaders" may soon be nullified if the trajectory remains unchanged.

But, positive note, South Africans can stop this. It's not too late.

[SUNS 25]

To be positive, the western media had said that the football World Cup in South Africa would be a disaster, Everything in perfect summer..
There is no of apocalisme in South Africa, the western media like exaggerating.

[Nostra]

@Kwazi, I hear you bro, but as much as we don't like to hear it, what Annman says is true. ANC is manipulating black people and their fears and they're masters at it. And I'm not kissing ass or being counter-revolutionary, but ANC knows that black people are suffering from a form of Post-Traumatic Disorder and like any good psychopath, they know how to pull our number. They got us by the cajones mate. The sad part that it's black people who suffer the most from the break down in governance (not that its justifiable when others suffer). White people already have contingency plans for generations ahead.


Consider the following:

Who suffers when teachers go on prolonged strikes? Black students, whites teachers rarely strike and their parents would not stand for that. And most of their kids go to good schools...

Who suffers when there's no infrastructure, especially water? Who's drinking kak-laced water? it's not whites, its poor black people.

Who suffers when money is stolen wholesale through tenderpreneurism? Blacks

Who suffers when a proper mass-transit system is not put in place and people die in their dozens in taxis? it aint white peeps, its blacks.

ANC or at least this generation is not fit to carry the mandate they were given, at least Mbeki, despite all his quirks and shortcomings, had a vision to make SA great. SA was marching forward with purpose and zeal. Zuma is not fit to be president, not because he's a Grade 4 drop out but because, he's the worst kind of leader, devious, manipulative and greedy. 'Gedleyehlekisa' (one who hurts you over while smiling).Look at the Mdluli saga...., look at the Zulufication (for lack of a better word) of our security aparatus, (no beef to my KZN peeps, but these things do make some of us feel uneasy, especially those of us who're from the home province of erstwhile "Economic Freedom Fighter" aka Zuma's nemesis....

I know DD and the rest of the DA-fanboys exxagarate Helen and her abilities (single handedly bringing down the monolith of apartheid for example) but she has a good head on her and I think she means well. And she's a good administrator. She's not perfect but she's good and she's German, we could do with some teutonic efficiency...

And realise I'm not saying this cos I'm trying to cosy up to no-one, I really couldn't give a fuck about what the guys think about me, but am doing this because can see that ANC is holding black people back. Look at the leaders they choose, that suggests that that's the best we can come up with, but we're far more educated and urbane, listen to how they talk and how they look, do they inspire confidence? And why all their teeth always missing, black people are supposed to have some of the most perfect white teeth on the planet, why our reps' mouths always looking fucked up


As Brutus explained his betrayal of Caeser; he didn't betray Caeser cos he loved him less but because he loved Rome more. same with us, it's not because we love ANC less but because we love SA more....

[annman]

Originally Posted by Nostra

And realise I'm not saying this cos I'm trying to cosy up to no-one, I really couldn't give a fuck about what the guys think about me

I can attest to that... he seldom gives a f**k what I think.

[Diggerdog]

Well said Nostra...kind of!

I don't know about the DA fanboy stuff! I thought you would have noticed by now that I am the least damming of the ANC...

But anyway...I was just pointing out that, although obviously Helen is the leader of the DA and she is the main target...calling her racist is about as absurd as it gets. No one can argue with her anti-apartheid credentials.
And I certainly never said she brought down apartheid single-handedly.

Believe me, if the DA start fucking up my beloved Cape Town, or anywhere in the county, I will turn on them in a heartbeat.

[annman]

Oh Boy... this should be interesting...

CNN's most senior international analyst, Chritiane Amanpour interviews FW de Klerk tonight on her show: Amanpour. on CNN - 21:00CAT/CET 10May.

EDIT: Just saw another segment in the CNN Series: Cracks in the Rainbow. Residents from Sweetwaters outside Johannesburg said: We vote the same, nothing happens, so then we protest, then nothing happens, then we write letters, nobody responds, the last thing I can do now is vote for someone else.

[Kwazimoto]

In the present case, there can be no doubt that the impact of the temporary restraining order is immediate, ongoing and substantial. The order prohibits SANRAL from exercising statutory powers flowing from legislation whose constitutional validity is not challenged. In particular, the order prevents it from raising revenue through tolls, a power the statute vests in it. The immediate and ongoing result of the interdict is that the National Treasury, the Executive Government and the National Legislature will have to allocate R270 million per month to SANRAL in order to meet its ongoing capital and interest repayments in respect of the GFIP. Thus the order has wide ranging consequences for national finances and the management of our country’s sovereign debt. At the behest of a court order, the National Executive is prevented from fulfilling its statutory and budgetary responsibilities for as long as the interim order is in place. In effect, the order compels a re-allocation of otherwise budgeted funds to satisfy the financial exigency. Thus the grant of the interdict has a direct and immediate impact on separation of powers as well as ongoing irreparable financial and budgetary harm.

Full ConCourt. judgment:
http://http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZACC/2012/18.html