First Hill Pictures, Projects, etc... - Page 4

mSeattle · May 9th, 2012, 04:20 AM

That escalator looks like it's in the middle of a large development. This maybe could happen like that little one at Swedish, but they turn it off sometimes so is not guaranteed.

CityView Jim · May 9th, 2012, 05:15 PM

Looks too narrow, too. So annoying when people view an escalator (or for that matter, an moving sidewalk) as a 'ride' instead of something to speed your ascent. If that's the case, keep sharp to the right to allow others to pass. Not all do!! Stepping down from my soap box now.

Ruffhauser · May 9th, 2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays

That one plus the Hong Kong version are one way, prevailing direction only (in Hong Kong's case), so you're screwed half the time. And of course it takes a hell of a lot of money to run, made appropriate by the astonishing densities up the hill. This being the US with our stupid liability laws, the insurance costs would probably be high too, acceptable for a high-traffic controlled facility, but not around street drunks etc. And our densities are nothing like theirs.

Would it be good? Maybe. It cuts off one side from the other. US safety regs would keep it separate from everything including nothing that would damage a car within three feet of a lane. Not next to a building either, because their access is important even for maintenance. Any utilities under it in parallel would need to be rerouted because access would be tough afterward. So it would be very wide vs. the lack of room available. You'd still need sidewalks obviously.

And of course the development cost. I don't see it being considered.

Ok, other than those 10 or 12 bad things, this is a good idea then?

mhays · May 9th, 2012, 08:55 PM

Don't get me wrong...I love the idea and expect to see it in place in a few weeks. But there are some minor hurdles.

Doomgoggles · May 9th, 2012, 11:10 PM

What about those inclinators or funicular systems?

mhays · May 10th, 2012, 01:33 AM

Sure, except nobody can get off from start to finish, they have to be completely out of the way, they require a straight incline plane which doesn't really exist to First Hill, etc. *sunshine!*

mSeattle · May 11th, 2012, 08:01 AM

Snapped some shots on May 5th. Nice work for an underground parking garage.

image hosted on flickr

by mSeattle, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

by mSeattle, on Flickr

flotown · May 11th, 2012, 06:04 PM

The western portion of the site is behind shopped for joint development I'm told

LCIII · May 11th, 2012, 06:09 PM

That would be nice. Keep adding to our I-5 canyon!

Ruffhauser · July 12th, 2012, 07:57 PM

From todays DJC

http://www.djc.com/news/re/12042858.html

July 12, 2012

First Hill church talks with three developers
By LYNN PORTER
Journal Staff Reporter

First Presbyterian Church of Seattle has revived plans for a high-rise commercial and residential project on nearly two blocks it owns on First Hill overlooking downtown, and is interviewing potential development partners.

The property is just east of Interstate 5.

The “south” portion of the site is bounded by Seventh and Eighth avenues and Madison and Spring streets, and is zoned for commercial or residential construction to 160 feet.

The “north” portion is bounded by Seventh and Eighth avenues and Spring and Seneca streets, although Town Hall Seattle takes up one corner and Harbor Urban owns a slice along Seventh. The L-shaped property is approximately three quarters of a block and is now a parking lot. Residential construction up to 300 feet is allowed under certain circumstances.

Church uses are OK on both blocks.

Church officials have had strong interest from developers and are in serious discussions with three, said George Norris, who heads its development team.

Denny Onslow of Harbor Urban said his firm is one of those three developers. His firm is proposing a multifamily mixed-use project on the site, he said.

“Obviously that property is well-positioned,” close to health care facilities, the convention center, downtown and Freeway Park, Onslow said.

Norris said he expects First Presbyterian will choose one partner, although that partner could bring in other developers.

The church is looking at a number of possibilities for the site, he said.

“We definitely want residential (with perhaps senior housing),” he said. “We also want office of one type or another — and maybe a hotel and residential and office.”

More than one building is envisioned for each block.

Norris said the project likely will be built in phases, and completed in four to eight years.

The property sale will fund construction of a new facility for the church and its programs that will be incorporated into the new development — perhaps on both blocks — and be owned by First Presbyterian.

The development partner or partners will pay for and own the rest of the project, Norris said.

The church would like the development to attract people from First Hill and across I-5, with uses such as a coffee shop and day care in its facilities to bring people in, Norris said.

It envisions open space as a connection to Freeway Park and storefronts along Spring Street to make it more active.

But what ultimately gets built, “gets down to the economics — everything gets down to the economics,” Norris said.

Matthew Gardner, a Seattle land use economist, said it is good to have large contiguous sites — “entire blocks are a good thing.”

“It will be interesting to see who steps up, to see who wants to pursue it,” he said. “It will be interesting to see what they believe the highest and best use will be.” Gardner said speculative office development doesn't make sense for the church site because there are other better locations for that downtown.

High-rise condos also wouldn't work because prices are depressed and lenders generally aren't financing them, he said.

Gardner said hotels are a possibility, but other hospitality projects are in the pipeline downtown.

Apartments are also a possibility, he said, but lots of them will come online in 2013 and 2014, “which is likely to test the strength of the downtown apartment market.”

However, given the two years it takes for permitting, he said a developer could avoid that wave of construction.

Gardner said the L-shape of the north site might make development more complex, although it's been done before.

A wave of development started on First Hill before the recession, and more has followed.

“I think ultimately downtown is pretty much built out,” said Gardner. “It's just natural to start thinking about moving across the freeway.”

First Presbyterian has considered redevelopment for more than a decade.

Its property is valuable but the 1960s buildings need upgrades that could cost up to $12 million. Church officials have said the concrete sanctuary's Brutalist architectural style is off-putting.

Like other urban houses of worship, the church's membership is way down. It had 8,000 members in 1940; in 2009, it counted less than 200.

In early 2009 the church was preparing to issue a request for proposals for its site when the economic downturn hit.

In the fall of last year, with an improving economy, the church formed a development team and hired architect GGLO, broker NAI Puget Sound Properties and project manager OAC to help it select a partner.

Matt the Engineer · July 12th, 2012, 08:09 PM

Ouch. $12M in retrofits needed with a membership of 200. No wonder they want to get some money out of the property. This could be a great project if they could find a way to do it. Come back to us, condo and office space markets.

Capitol Hill · July 12th, 2012, 08:13 PM

I'm very excited about the First Presbyterian properties. It'll fill in some 'holes' in the streetscape, amdreally helpintegrate First Hill further with downtown. As well, First Presbyterian (as most of our urban churches) also provide some very valuable social services that government can't or won't fund adequately. I truly feel this development will be 'blessed'. Just please, don't let Weber Thompson near it.

Matt the Engineer · July 12th, 2012, 08:19 PM

"provide some very valuable social services" For all of 200 people on almost 2 blocks of prime city land? That probably show up for less than an hour a week? I'd rather them take up land elsewhere. Town Hall provides a much more valuable social service. Heck, the local 300sf Starbucks probably provides a more valuable service.

mSeattle · July 12th, 2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt the Engineer

"provide some very valuable social services" For all of 200 people on almost 2 blocks of prime city land? That probably show up for less than an hour a week? I'd rather them take up land elsewhere. Town Hall provides a much more valuable social service. Heck, the local 300sf Starbucks probably provides a more valuable service.

They already have land, right where they are. Why should they move?

RMacherat · July 12th, 2012, 10:16 PM

"High-rise condos also wouldn't work because prices are depressed and lenders generally aren't financing them"

And I guess this will be the case forever, huh? Jeez, can't the people who are supposed to be able to see beyond their noses ever see beyond their noses?

mhays · July 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM

I disagree with Gardner on two points. First, now is a fine time to gear up for a condo, because then it would presell in probably 2014 when the market is probably much better, and open in 2016 or so when the market is better still. Second, it doesn't take two full years to break ground on something.

Matt the Engineer · July 12th, 2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mSeattle

They already have land, right where they are. Why should they move?

I'm just saying it's a good thing for the city that they're selling their land. If they keep some space for a church - fine. Though if they were economically rational (and who ever is, really), they'd sell or rent out that space too and build a little church in South Seattle where land is cheap.

LCIII · July 12th, 2012, 10:28 PM

Man, I hope whatever they decide that they build out to maximum allowed. Such a great opportunity to make I-5 a real canyon between downtown and First Hill!

LCIII · July 12th, 2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt the Engineer

I'm just saying it's a good thing for the city that they're selling their land. If they keep some space for a church - fine. Though if they were economically rational (and who ever is, really), they'd sell or rent out that space too and build a little church in South Seattle where land is cheap.

Maybe they want to be close to this spot because this is near where their members live?

Matt the Engineer · July 12th, 2012, 10:44 PM

Sure. Or it's advertising for their church (though that hasn't worked very well, has it?). But I'm trying to think of a large space with a total of only 200 customers that come in (at most) an hour a week that can afford rent downtown. It's possible they're wealthy, live very close, and willing to pay for the convenience. But then why are there nearly 200 parking spaces?

May 9th, 2012, 04:20 AM	#61
mSeattle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 809 Likes (Received): 11	That escalator looks like it's in the middle of a large development. This maybe could happen like that little one at Swedish, but they turn it off sometimes so is not guaranteed. __________________ *Too Much DOUBT - Troy Davis ExecutionYOU are Commander In Chief* of your body. Remember Bradley Manning.**

May 11th, 2012, 08:01 AM	#67
mSeattle Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 809 Likes (Received): 11	Snapped some shots on May 5th. Nice work for an underground parking garage. image hosted on flickr by mSeattle, on Flickr image hosted on flickr by mSeattle, on Flickr image hosted on flickr by mSeattle, on Flickr __________________ *Too Much DOUBT - Troy Davis ExecutionYOU are Commander In Chief* of your body. Remember Bradley Manning.**

July 12th, 2012, 08:13 PM	#72
Capitol Hill Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,404 Likes (Received): 162	I'm very excited about the First Presbyterian properties. It'll fill in some 'holes' in the streetscape, amdreally helpintegrate First Hill further with downtown. As well, First Presbyterian (as most of our urban churches) also provide some very valuable social services that government can't or won't fund adequately. I truly feel this development will be 'blessed'. Just please, don't let Weber Thompson near it. __________________ After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF

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May 9th, 2012, 05:15 PM	#62
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,963 Likes (Received): 64	Looks too narrow, too. So annoying when people view an escalator (or for that matter, an moving sidewalk) as a 'ride' instead of something to speed your ascent. If that's the case, keep sharp to the right to allow others to pass. Not all do!! Stepping down from my soap box now.

May 9th, 2012, 08:55 PM	#64
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,382 Likes (Received): 119	Don't get me wrong...I love the idea and expect to see it in place in a few weeks. But there are some minor hurdles.

May 9th, 2012, 11:10 PM	#65
Doomgoggles Unregistered non-user Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Seattle/Kitsap Posts: 740 Likes (Received): 39	What about those inclinators or funicular systems?

May 10th, 2012, 01:33 AM	#66
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,382 Likes (Received): 119	Sure, except nobody can get off from start to finish, they have to be completely out of the way, they require a straight incline plane which doesn't really exist to First Hill, etc. sunshine!

May 11th, 2012, 06:04 PM	#68
flotown Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 286 Likes (Received): 0	The western portion of the site is behind shopped for joint development I'm told

May 11th, 2012, 06:09 PM	#69
LCIII Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,871 Likes (Received): 64	That would be nice. Keep adding to our I-5 canyon!

July 12th, 2012, 07:57 PM	#70
Ruffhauser Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North Belltown Posts: 1,352 Likes (Received): 217	From todays DJC http://www.djc.com/news/re/12042858.html July 12, 2012 First Hill church talks with three developers By LYNN PORTER Journal Staff Reporter First Presbyterian Church of Seattle has revived plans for a high-rise commercial and residential project on nearly two blocks it owns on First Hill overlooking downtown, and is interviewing potential development partners. The property is just east of Interstate 5. The “south” portion of the site is bounded by Seventh and Eighth avenues and Madison and Spring streets, and is zoned for commercial or residential construction to 160 feet. The “north” portion is bounded by Seventh and Eighth avenues and Spring and Seneca streets, although Town Hall Seattle takes up one corner and Harbor Urban owns a slice along Seventh. The L-shaped property is approximately three quarters of a block and is now a parking lot. Residential construction up to 300 feet is allowed under certain circumstances. Church uses are OK on both blocks. Church officials have had strong interest from developers and are in serious discussions with three, said George Norris, who heads its development team. Denny Onslow of Harbor Urban said his firm is one of those three developers. His firm is proposing a multifamily mixed-use project on the site, he said. “Obviously that property is well-positioned,” close to health care facilities, the convention center, downtown and Freeway Park, Onslow said. Norris said he expects First Presbyterian will choose one partner, although that partner could bring in other developers. The church is looking at a number of possibilities for the site, he said. “We definitely want residential (with perhaps senior housing),” he said. “We also want office of one type or another — and maybe a hotel and residential and office.” More than one building is envisioned for each block. Norris said the project likely will be built in phases, and completed in four to eight years. The property sale will fund construction of a new facility for the church and its programs that will be incorporated into the new development — perhaps on both blocks — and be owned by First Presbyterian. The development partner or partners will pay for and own the rest of the project, Norris said. The church would like the development to attract people from First Hill and across I-5, with uses such as a coffee shop and day care in its facilities to bring people in, Norris said. It envisions open space as a connection to Freeway Park and storefronts along Spring Street to make it more active. But what ultimately gets built, “gets down to the economics — everything gets down to the economics,” Norris said. Matthew Gardner, a Seattle land use economist, said it is good to have large contiguous sites — “entire blocks are a good thing.” “It will be interesting to see who steps up, to see who wants to pursue it,” he said. “It will be interesting to see what they believe the highest and best use will be.” Gardner said speculative office development doesn't make sense for the church site because there are other better locations for that downtown. High-rise condos also wouldn't work because prices are depressed and lenders generally aren't financing them, he said. Gardner said hotels are a possibility, but other hospitality projects are in the pipeline downtown. Apartments are also a possibility, he said, but lots of them will come online in 2013 and 2014, “which is likely to test the strength of the downtown apartment market.” However, given the two years it takes for permitting, he said a developer could avoid that wave of construction. Gardner said the L-shape of the north site might make development more complex, although it's been done before. A wave of development started on First Hill before the recession, and more has followed. “I think ultimately downtown is pretty much built out,” said Gardner. “It's just natural to start thinking about moving across the freeway.” First Presbyterian has considered redevelopment for more than a decade. Its property is valuable but the 1960s buildings need upgrades that could cost up to $12 million. Church officials have said the concrete sanctuary's Brutalist architectural style is off-putting. Like other urban houses of worship, the church's membership is way down. It had 8,000 members in 1940; in 2009, it counted less than 200. In early 2009 the church was preparing to issue a request for proposals for its site when the economic downturn hit. In the fall of last year, with an improving economy, the church formed a development team and hired architect GGLO, broker NAI Puget Sound Properties and project manager OAC to help it select a partner.

July 12th, 2012, 08:09 PM	#71
Matt the Engineer Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,090 Likes (Received): 92	Ouch. $12M in retrofits needed with a membership of 200. No wonder they want to get some money out of the property. This could be a great project if they could find a way to do it. Come back to us, condo and office space markets.

July 12th, 2012, 08:19 PM	#73
Matt the Engineer Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,090 Likes (Received): 92	"provide some very valuable social services" For all of 200 people on almost 2 blocks of prime city land? That probably show up for less than an hour a week? I'd rather them take up land elsewhere. Town Hall provides a much more valuable social service. Heck, the local 300sf Starbucks probably provides a more valuable service.

July 12th, 2012, 10:16 PM	#75
RMacherat Buy used books Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,733 Likes (Received): 84	"High-rise condos also wouldn't work because prices are depressed and lenders generally aren't financing them" And I guess this will be the case forever, huh? Jeez, can't the people who are supposed to be able to see beyond their noses ever see beyond their noses?

July 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM	#76
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,382 Likes (Received): 119	I disagree with Gardner on two points. First, now is a fine time to gear up for a condo, because then it would presell in probably 2014 when the market is probably much better, and open in 2016 or so when the market is better still. Second, it doesn't take two full years to break ground on something.

July 12th, 2012, 10:28 PM	#78
LCIII Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,871 Likes (Received): 64	Man, I hope whatever they decide that they build out to maximum allowed. Such a great opportunity to make I-5 a real canyon between downtown and First Hill!

July 12th, 2012, 10:44 PM	#80
Matt the Engineer Registered User Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,090 Likes (Received): 92	Sure. Or it's advertising for their church (though that hasn't worked very well, has it?). But I'm trying to think of a large space with a total of only 200 customers that come in (at most) an hour a week that can afford rent downtown. It's possible they're wealthy, live very close, and willing to pay for the convenience. But then why are there nearly 200 parking spaces?