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Old May 9th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #501
Metropole
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NS and SS are certainly good for Lahore and parts of Punjab but they're no good for the rest of the country. We've seen from past experience during the 90s how Nawaz Sharif's policies were as ruinous for Pakistan as Benazir/Zardari's. If the ganjas get control of Pakistan wo mulk ka tel nikal dein gay.

Ask how much taxes NS or SS pay despite accumulating billions of rupees while in power. If they don't pay taxes they're defrauding the people of Pakistan. A fraudia is a fraudia.

We need to stop choosing the lesser evil and should choose clean politicians instead. Like Immi.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:34 AM   #502
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Old May 9th, 2012, 01:56 AM   #503
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I agree with ravian94 & Lahore88. NS govt has done lots of good things for Pakistan. Look at the motorways, telecommunication reforms, privatisation etc. No one is an angel but atleast we should not judge every one with the same stick.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropole View Post
NS and SS are certainly good for Lahore and parts of Punjab but they're no good for the rest of the country. We've seen from past experience during the 90s how Nawaz Sharif's policies were as ruinous for Pakistan as Benazir/Zardari's. If the ganjas get control of Pakistan wo mulk ka tel nikal dein gay.

Ask how much taxes NS or SS pay despite accumulating billions of rupees while in power. If they don't pay taxes they're defrauding the people of Pakistan. A fraudia is a fraudia.

We need to stop choosing the lesser evil and should choose clean politicians instead. Like Immi.
100% agree and could not have said it better.

now to the argument, I think there are not many objections regarding SS not trying to develop Punjab etc... and I must say he is trying his best but could had done a much better job as CM!

@lahore88 please don't go into the tax paying argument of NS and SS. Both are BIG fraudis regarding this topic and if the above argument is looked as a political argument then also dont got there, Pml-N has no proper path if its concerned regarding day by day politics. Look at the current crisis, they are saying that they don't accept Glani as PM and in the same time they them self are in the government.

@lahore88 building a ring road, motorway etc... or handing out free laptops from tax payers money is not an big achievement. Because if you see this this way then PPP has also archived quit a lot. They are building PK largest airport, Many dams are getting build under this government, Karachi deep see port is also getting built under PPP BUT THESE ACHIEVEMENTS DON'T MAKE PPP ANY BETTER OR DO THEY?
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Old May 9th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #505
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Didn't want a political debate, but it's interesting. My cousin just got married in Lahore and she even said how its better than Karachi now and for a karachiite to say that, it's pretty mind consuming--trust me lol.

I still don't like either parties as a whole--to me, they are republicans and democrats (same ole), but for you guys, who live there, you can truly judge. And from visiting this forum a lot, even i give half a thumb up to shahbaz.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #506
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EVeryone does stuff for the area they are elected in, it's nothing new, it's their vote bank. And it works wonders as seen from this thread, or similar threads from Karachi (back in the day) or I guess Multan under Gilani. Heck, Mullahs did work in Karachi to win votes and got support which woke up MQM.

Tell me about a single politician who did for areas they have not been elected in and we'll talk. Or a single party who wasn't hellbent on marginalizing other races (incl. rampant ethnic-cleansing). Any party. Let's not even talk about corruption, since like I said your favorite party could rape your sister and you'd still be too blind to see.

Or a single politician who went beyond "roti, kapra aur makan." Seriously, this shit annoys me to hell. We see a shiny flyover aur ji ballay ballay. This basic shit shouldn't even count.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #507
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Very few know but I remember clearly , all this telecom infrastructure and fiber/coper started by Ahsan Iqbal in 90s Nawaz Era. He had a vision and by implementing just a small bit of it, we are way way ahead of many countries in telecom.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post

Tell me about a single politician who did for areas they have not been elected in and we'll talk. Or a single party who wasn't hellbent on marginalizing other races (incl. rampant ethnic-cleansing). Any party. Let's not even talk about corruption, since like I said your favorite party could rape your sister and you'd still be too blind to see.

Or a single politician who went beyond "roti, kapra aur makan." Seriously, this shit annoys me to hell. We see a shiny flyover aur ji ballay ballay. This basic shit shouldn't even count.
IK, nuff said.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakeelahmadch View Post
Very few know but I remember clearly , all this telecom infrastructure and fiber/coper started by Ahsan Iqbal in 90s Nawaz Era. He had a vision and by implementing just a small bit of it, we are way way ahead of many countries in telecom.
This is the kind of stuff I don't get. What next, providing water is a big deal? The whole world was moving toward cellphones, so it'd have been a tragedy had it NOT been done. Maybe then you should talk about DC Pager. Also, the big revolution came under Musharraf, but again, had it not come it'd have been a tragedy. Doing the bare minimum is nothing to be proud of. Wow, he got us phones. Welcome to the 20th century!
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Old May 9th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
This is the kind of stuff I don't get. What next, providing water is a big deal? The whole world was moving toward cellphones, so it'd have been a tragedy had it NOT been done. Maybe then you should talk about DC Pager. Also, the big revolution came under Musharraf, but again, had it not come it'd have been a tragedy. Doing the bare minimum is nothing to be proud of. Wow, he got us phones. Welcome to the 20th century!
Considering they got 2 years - it's very good as compared to any other era.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #511
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Considering they got 2 years - it's very good as compared to any other era.
What I was saying is that cellular service is not a big deal. Whether it took a month, 10 months, or 10 years.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 12:36 AM   #512
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I have talked about this on another forum. I will share some quotes here to enlighten members of why other provinces lag behind.

Karachi LTU (LARGE TAX UNIT - this includes entire Sindh) contributes 70% of Pakistan's revenue (TAX).

In 2011, Karachi LTU collected 569-585 billion Source compare that to Lahore LTU (entire Punjab) which only collected 108 billion Source in 2011.

The main reason is Ganja Bros and feudal Chaudarys do not pay tax another there is NO agriculture tax.

Here's where grievance kicks in. Punjab gets 52% of this amount whereas other parts get scraps. Only during Gen. Musharraf's tenure resources were distributed among provinces on merit.

To prove my point here's an excerpt from recent budget:

The sum assigned to the Provincial Governments under Article 3 shall be
distributed amongst the Provinces on the basis of the percentage specified against each:-

(a) Balochistan - 9.09%
(b) Khyber Pakhtunkhwa - 14.62%
(c) Punjab - 51.74%
(d) Sindh - 24.55%

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/bud...ef_2011_12.pdf
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Old May 10th, 2012, 01:28 AM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaone View Post
I have talked about this on another forum. I will share some quotes here to enlighten members of why other provinces lag behind.

Karachi LTU (LARGE TAX UNIT - this includes entire Sindh) contributes 70% of Pakistan's revenue (TAX).

In 2011, Karachi LTU collected 569-585 billion Source compare that to Lahore LTU (entire Punjab) which only collected 108 billion Source in 2011.

The main reason is Ganja Bros and feudal Chaudarys do not pay tax another there is NO agriculture tax.

Here's where grievance kicks in. Punjab gets 52% of this amount whereas other parts get scraps. Only during Gen. Musharraf's tenure resources were distributed among provinces on merit.

To prove my point here's an excerpt from recent budget:

The sum assigned to the Provincial Governments under Article 3 shall be
distributed amongst the Provinces on the basis of the percentage specified against each:-

(a) Balochistan - 9.09%
(b) Khyber Pakhtunkhwa - 14.62%
(c) Punjab - 51.74%
(d) Sindh - 24.55%

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/bud...ef_2011_12.pdf
Your figures may sound very significant on paper but you have overlooked a very grave GROUND REALITY: 75% of the industry operating in Punjab has its head office in Karachi. Alternatively, you can say that a very huge number of LTUs of Karachi have their primary revenue generating activities in Punjab. In a day or two I will be able to produce very simple facts to corroborate this, otherwise common sense and general knowledge should prevail itself.

So take an ice-cold glass of water and remove the false biases from your mind
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Old May 10th, 2012, 01:50 AM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravian94 View Post
Your figures may sound very significant on paper but you have overlooked a very grave GROUND REALITY: 75% of the industry operating in Punjab has its head office in Karachi. Alternatively, you can say that a very huge number of LTUs of Karachi have their primary revenue generating activities in Punjab. In a day or two I will be able to produce very simple facts to corroborate this, otherwise common sense and general knowledge should prevail itself.

So take an ice-cold glass of water and remove the false biases from your mind
That's another incorrect perception. Even if some companies had revenue stream in Punjab. Karachi is Pakistan's port almost all oil, resources and etc come from Karachi Port or Port Qasim. More than half of Pakistani govt revenue is collected in Karachi because it's the main port of entry and exit for bulk of trade which is taxed (custom duty & sales tax), as well as the massive industrial output of Karachi which accounts for about 20% of Pak GDP.

Waves, Dawlance, GlaxoSmithKline, Getz Pharma and etc are Karachi based. Go through this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_of_Pakistan

80% are Karachi based.

While there is no denying Punjabs contribution to GDP. Nevertheless, the fact remains Karachi LTU contributes 70% revenue. This is NOT my saying. This was mentioned by none other than Chairman Federal Board of Revenue.

Sindh has 54% of country’s textile units, 45% of its sugar mills, 20% of pulp & paper mills and 35% of edible oil processed locally. Sindh accounts for 34% of total industrial capacity in large scale manufacturing and 25% of small scale manufacturing.

http://www.sbi.gos.pk/sindh-economy.php

Around 60% of the country’s oil fields and 44% gas fields are located here and contributes 56% oil and 55% of Pakistan’s daily gas production.

48% of fish export from Pakistan is from Sindh. Moreover, 71% of marine fish resources, 65% of fresh fish resources, and 100% of brackish water fish resources are located in Sindh.


Apologies for those seeking updates. I only posted this to enlighten members of where things stand.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 07:12 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
What I was saying is that cellular service is not a big deal. Whether it took a month, 10 months, or 10 years.
Who is talking about cellular service - I think you are too young to comprehend what I said. Nevermind.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
This is the kind of stuff I don't get. What next, providing water is a big deal? The whole world was moving toward cellphones, so it'd have been a tragedy had it NOT been done. Maybe then you should talk about DC Pager. Also, the big revolution came under Musharraf, but again, had it not come it'd have been a tragedy. Doing the bare minimum is nothing to be proud of. Wow, he got us phones. Welcome to the 20th century!
u r damn right. Doing minimum is not a big accomplishment. It would have come one way or the other. If not in Musharaf era than probably in PPP or PML N one. If this would have come earlier than it would have made some difference. Like in 80's. we are 3 or 4 decades behind than the rest of the world.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by shakeelahmadch View Post
Who is talking about cellular service - I think you are too young to comprehend what I said. Nevermind.
You were talking about it.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravian94 View Post
Your figures may sound very significant on paper but you have overlooked a very grave GROUND REALITY: 75% of the industry operating in Punjab has its head office in Karachi. Alternatively, you can say that a very huge number of LTUs of Karachi have their primary revenue generating activities in Punjab. In a day or two I will be able to produce very simple facts to corroborate this, otherwise common sense and general knowledge should prevail itself.

So take an ice-cold glass of water and remove the false biases from your mind
Biases are on both sides.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #519
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Old May 12th, 2012, 07:20 AM   #520
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100% agree and could not have said it better.

now to the argument, I think there are not many objections regarding SS not trying to develop Punjab etc... and I must say he is trying his best but could had done a much better job as CM!

@lahore88 please don't go into the tax paying argument of NS and SS. Both are BIG fraudis regarding this topic and if the above argument is looked as a political argument then also dont got there, Pml-N has no proper path if its concerned regarding day by day politics. Look at the current crisis, they are saying that they don't accept Glani as PM and in the same time they them self are in the government.

@lahore88 building a ring road, motorway etc... or handing out free laptops from tax payers money is not an big achievement. Because if you see this this way then PPP has also archived quit a lot. They are building PK largest airport, Many dams are getting build under this government, Karachi deep see port is also getting built under PPP BUT THESE ACHIEVEMENTS DON'T MAKE PPP ANY BETTER OR DO THEY?
as for as Dams are concerned I don't see any progress during PPP regime.
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