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Old July 28th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #8361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
The old American States/Safeco building on North Meridian might be appropriate.
That's what I was thinking would be the best available existing space.

If they build something new, which would be awesome, I'd love to see them do something like the Emmis building does on the Circle with the visible recording studios (although Emmis doesn't really use them as much as/like they should).

It would be great if they had their "war room" and other studios visible so the public could see into their inner workings a bit more. The old building is just so closed off and sad-looking. It would be neat if they opened it up a bit more to the public eye. A Star photography gallery and other things come to mind as well. There are a lot of really cool ideas one could do architecturally for a newspaper, and I'm talking functionally, not expressively.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #8362
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Originally Posted by flavius View Post
There's nothing wrong with the building; it's just the facade that is ugly. That's actually a later addition. Indianapolis Then and Now shows a pic of it in the 20's with a nice-looking terra cotta and brick exterior.
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Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
The form/bulk and (even window placement) of the original is still there, with a 4th-story addition set back and in from the original parapet. The MCM refacing dos not do the old building any favors.

It's a pipe dream, but with the (intact) American Building at the north end of the block, redevelopment ought to break up the "slabular" block face into a mix of facade sections. The south facade could be restored to 1907 appearance, the MCM entryway and a portion of MCM facade to its north could be retained, and then (I cannot believe I'm suggesting this) a modern facade a la CityWay could be created to activate the facade.
I'm glad other people are aware of this. It would be great to see the buildings original facades restored. And I'd love for a big chunk of this to become residential to help activate the American Legion Mall.

Images from the Star today:
(One the top 3 one is similar to the image from Indianapolis Then and Now)

1949


1950s


1957


1960s


1969:


1972


2001


2012
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #8363
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Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
Pipeline from Lake Monroe. Incorporate it into I-69 construction.

And forever make enemies of Monroe County.
No chance in hell that happens. Mitch Daniels declared a past proposal to build a pipeline from Lake Monroe to Indianapolis a "non-starter."

The Lake Monroe watershed is one of the most ecologically sensitive in the state. I won't stand to see the destruction of a beautiful ecosystem just so fat-assed soccer moms can water their lawns year round.

Clean up the White River and damn it if you have to. Or better yet, don't build cities where there is not an adequate water supply. Why do Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and Phoenix even exist?
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #8364
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I dont think so. hence take note of my idea for a 500+ tall mixed use skyscraper on the market square arena site.
part of my idea would be put a small amount of office space in the tower for a company like Indystar. also the top floors could be Condo's and apartments. Also 300-600 hotel rooms and retail and local resturants at the bottem.
Theres lots of stuff you can put in a skyscraper thats 500 feet tall or higher and ill be presenting this idea to Mayor Ballard this monday.
Repeating your bullshit proposal doesn't make it any more credible or feasible.

Who is going to finance this building? Did you not see the earlier post that stated hotel occupancy rates are not high enough to warrant another large hotel at this point in time?

I'm sure Ballard is looking forward to some crackpot jumping him on the street. Since when should government involve itself in development? Isn't that the EVILSOCIALISMCOMMUNISM you rail against? Can you maintain any sort of ideological consistency in anything you advocate or do you just announce to the world any stupid idea that pops into your head?
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #8365
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or pipe in water from Lake Michigan
Yes I'm sure you support this only because it could hurt Illinois and Chicago, which in your diseased mind represents all that is wrong with the world. Support of policies that intentionally harm and punish certain constituencies and offer no positive benefits to society are standard in modern conservatism- see "Right to Work" and school vouchers.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #8366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
In this morning's Star there is a picture of the original 1907 Star building at Penn & NY, along with a modern photo. (Posting from phone so won't include a mobile link that won't work on a computer. You should be able to find it at indystar.com)

The form/bulk and (even window placement) of the original is still there, with a 4th-story addition set back and in from the original parapet. The MCM refacing dos not do the old building any favors.

It's a pipe dream, but with the (intact) American Building at the north end of the block, redevelopment ought to break up the "slabular" block face into a mix of facade sections. The south facade could be restored to 1907 appearance, the MCM entryway and a portion of MCM facade to its north could be retained, and then (I cannot believe I'm suggesting this) a modern facade a la CityWay could be created to activate the facade.
This seems like the most viable solution to me. Unless there's some structural/layout issue with the existing buildings, just reface them to integrate with the street.

The parking garage on the NE corner of the block is fairly large -- it looks to be 7 stories tall and something between 60 and 80 spaces per floor, or about 420-560 spaces. That could very well support residential parking for the existing buildings as well as a new one on the SE corner.

EDIT: for some perspective on what that garage could support, phase one of Block 400 will be a full city block with a 435 space parking garage, 325 residential units and about 45k sq.ft. of retail.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:42 PM   #8367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Repeating your bullshit proposal doesn't make it any more credible or feasible.

Who is going to finance this building? Did you not see the earlier post that stated hotel occupancy rates are not high enough to warrant another large hotel at this point in time?

I'm sure Ballard is looking forward to some crackpot jumping him on the street. Since when should government involve itself in development? Isn't that the EVILSOCIALISMCOMMUNISM you rail against? Can you maintain any sort of ideological consistency in anything you advocate or do you just announce to the world any stupid idea that pops into your head?
again Hoosier stop coming here and starting a firestorm.
2nd downtown hotel occupancy isnt high enough for a MASSIVE hotel. aka 1000+ rooms.
a smaller 300-500 room hotel is much more feasible right now and each hotel room counts for another Super Bowl bid. 2nd when the economy gets going again this market square arena development will be prime development.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #8368
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Further analyzing the SE corner: it's at the intersection of 26k cars/day on NY, and 31k cars/day on Delaware. Exclduing West St., 57k total ranks this intersection as the 7th busiest in the mile square (#1 is Washington/Illinois at 74k). Positioned at the southern terminus of Mass Ave, that should be a retail bonanza. It could possibly support a two-story big box, though I'd guess restaurants would be more likely.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 12:15 AM   #8369
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As someone else noted, it's illegal under the Great Lakes Compact to pump Great Lakes water outside of its watershed (except for a strictly limited allotment because of the previously existing Chicago River reversal).

Also, a few years back Beurt Ser Vaas proposed building a pipeline to Lake Monroe. Interestingly, Hoosier, Lake Monroe was build with the understanding that it would be available to supply water to all Hoosiers. However, after a storm was raised I believe the legislature actually passed a law making the diversion illegal.

I think adding storage capacity on the existing system is ok, but ultimately we need a multi-watershed solution if we are to avoid problems like this. The Ohio River never runs out of water (although I should note Louisville's water as I advocate comes from groundwater, not the River directly). The White River watershed is insufficient since the city could literally pump the river dry.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #8370
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As someone else noted, it's illegal under the Great Lakes Compact to pump Great Lakes water outside of its watershed (except for a strictly limited allotment because of the previously existing Chicago River reversal).

Also, a few years back Beurt Ser Vaas proposed building a pipeline to Lake Monroe. Interestingly, Hoosier, Lake Monroe was build with the understanding that it would be available to supply water to all Hoosiers. However, after a storm was raised I believe the legislature actually passed a law making the diversion illegal.

I think adding storage capacity on the existing system is ok, but ultimately we need a multi-watershed solution if we are to avoid problems like this. The Ohio River never runs out of water (although I should note Louisville's water as I advocate comes from groundwater, not the River directly). The White River watershed is insufficient since the city could literally pump the river dry.
Wabash River is uphill from Indy at Salamonie and Mississinewa (and closer) so it wouldn't require much (if any) energy to pump water downhill to Indy. And the reservoirs are already built. New Albany is 265 feet lower than DT Indy. While water will run uphill toward money, downhill is better.

Come to think of it, the Central Canal was once to run from there to Indy.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #8371
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My guess is that once they come to the realization that the rest of the developing/developed world wants to live like average Americans and energy costs increase, they will re-evaluate their "wants" and make decisions accordingly. The American suburban mentality of "grassy yards, and soccer fields" in every backyard is not sustainable and it's time we all recognize that fact.

As a member of the millennial generation, I can tell that a good chunk of us are never having kids. I think the fertility of my generation (even young Latinos) is exaggerated. Most of us (at least the ones I know, and I know a diverse set of folks) heavily dislike the suburbs (though there's a lot of romanticism for the countryside) and are much more interested in things like green energy and self-sufficiency. In my own family, my grandmother had two kids, who both had five kids, but now? Out of 10 grandkids there is only one expected great-grandchild (and most of us are passing through our most fertile stage of life). I think that things are going to change for the millennial generation much more than people expect.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 04:31 AM   #8372
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Speaking in my capacity as a Gen Xer, I don't give a flying ****..

I'm just kidding, but I always get a bit leery when people discuss generational differences. Waaaayy to many generalities. Sorry...
I don't understand. Did I say something offensive to you?
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Old July 29th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #8373
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It was a joke. Clearly a misunderstanding due to our generation gap... <cough>
I don't mean to imply that different generations are like different species. But there are a lot of things my generation is facing (and not facing) when we look at our future. Every generation does it, it's part of the engine that drives change IMO.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #8374
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cdc, I think it would be very politically difficult (much like the Lake Monroe deal) for Indy to get water from elsewhere in Indiana, particularly if reservoir construction is involved. That's why I suggested Louisville. They've got the capacity, plus there's a virtually unlimited surface water supply in the Ohio River if necessary. It doesn't require "stealing" someone else's water.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #8375
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to the point

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Originally Posted by ablerock View Post
Yes.
I love these last two responses of yours.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 01:30 AM   #8376
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Originally Posted by arenn View Post
cdc, I think it would be very politically difficult (much like the Lake Monroe deal) for Indy to get water from elsewhere in Indiana, particularly if reservoir construction is involved. That's why I suggested Louisville. They've got the capacity, plus there's a virtually unlimited surface water supply in the Ohio River if necessary. It doesn't require "stealing" someone else's water.
That's why I suggested drawing from existing reservoirs on the Wabash River system. Much more flow than the "Mighty White".

You may be right about the political difficulty of any cross-basin transfer, though the Wabash control projects have the advantage of being under Army Corps of Engineers control like the Ohio River.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #8377
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Unfortunately, there may be complications to drawing water from the Ohio River due to the boundry between Kentucky and Indiana. The boundary between the states is the northern shore of the river, giving Kentucky control over what is done with the Ohio. Not too certain we could draw water without permission from KY. Of course with the Army Corps of Engineers in the mix, it may be that KY would have no say in the matter at all.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #8378
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Exciting news about the Indystar bldg. I worked security there in '93/94. Ran security patrols in that place top to bottom. Got to know it's layout pretty well. I agree. They must be dealing with a lot of unused space. Why they didn't do this sooner is beyond me. I did not know that the building is an incorporation of a few. That would explain why it always seemed a bit "off" when traversing through the various offices of the place.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #8379
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Just walked by the Packard condos on Ohio St. and there's a bunch of construction workers removing the brick from the building. Anyone know what this is about? They had the entire East St. facade completely stripped of all masonry.

Edit: Nevermind, I think I found it on the IBJ. Looks like they're replacing the outer skin due to leaks and damages from faulty construction. Hope Kosene enjoys swallowing that pill. Maybe next time just build a better building from the start.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #8380
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Just walked by the Packard condos on Ohio St. and there's a bunch of construction workers removing the brick from the building. Anyone know what this is about? They had the entire East St. facade completely stripped of all masonry.
Noticed that a couple of weeks ago on the way to an event DT. Was that a Kosene project?
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