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Old May 26th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #4401
Monks
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Originally Posted by PrevaricationComplex View Post
Nothing I've denied there. I just don't get why that matters. It's part of that celebrity culture you are apparently no fan of.



If only you stopped there kid, if only... but do carry on.



All of these things I agree with. No one is denying his contribution to sport, it however doesn't actually match the honours he gets is my point.



Why would I not like this? I'm getting the feeling you haven't actually understood anything.



These 'peers' you speak of include the national coaches of Tonga, the Maldives and Qatar. People who have probably never seen him play at the grounds. One of the many reasons FIFA's individual awards are not taken seriously by anyone who knows anything about football. Them taking over the serious award is a different story.



Where have I claimed his celebrity status gets him games/trophies etc? My complaint is that it gets him gigs like receiving the torch as though he was the most important sportsman/sportswoman we have, he isn't even a ******* Olympian or Paralympian.



Oh, move to North Korea or something. If you can't handle opposing views on a forum without resorting to the nuclear option, you're obviously not an adult.
???

I'm not the person who resorted to calling someone I don't know 'kid' from behind a keyboard. Not handling opposing views and resulting to personal insults is one thing, and replying in a adult manner with salient points that counter the intial argument in a reasoned fashion is quite another; I'd suggest you take a look at yourself before telling others what they are. 'Hoist with your own pertard' springs to mind.

Although you also may not respect the merits of national coaches of smaller nations, I think that their involvement and influence in the game greatly outweights any narcissitic delusions that you harbour. As for Beckham not being an Olympian, we shall see in a few weeks.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #4402
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My deepest condolences for the part of your brain that is upset at being 'called' a ... kid. You leave my narcissistic delusions alone. Good day sir.
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Old May 27th, 2012, 07:22 AM   #4403
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Haters gonna hate. The once great Imperial Britain has the English Premier League and David Beckham to thank for its ongoing relevance. England should cherish these few things they remain adept at exporting, and not piss on it at every opportunity.

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Old May 31st, 2012, 05:35 AM   #4404
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Mr Anderson.What do you think of the news that Barry Hearn now wants a possible groundshare afer all that he has said.I personally am dead against it.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 08:12 AM   #4405
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Oi, 4 posts, stop acting like a prat and find somewhere else to post eh?

JimB summed up the situation exactly as it is. Not quite sure what you're doing on this forum with posts like this.
Oi 10000 posts Why don't you say the same thing to Fl@shman who has a pop at West Ham (Usually a pretty abusive one)any chance he gets on an ARCHITECTURAL forum when all any body wants to discuss is the actual stadium.Just outing him for what he is.A Spurs loving West ham hater who takes it way to far.Call me a Pratt eh one of spurs longest ever servants.Btw I don't get offended when my Tottenham mates who refer to themselves as yids call me a pikey,ghandi,wet spam etc just a bit of banter like it should be.In the end You'll get your stadium,we'll get ours admit yours will probably be better just feel the way Levy went about the whole thing was pretty classless.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 09:02 AM   #4406
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Whatever, I don't know what post you're referring to and since I can't remember I'm not going to bother trying to find out. Bye.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:12 AM   #4407
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Whatever, I don't know what post you're referring to and since I can't remember I'm not going to bother trying to find out. Bye.
He's referring to an exchange of posts on this thread from two months ago in which he complained about Spurs' behaviour during the stadium bidding process and threatened to report Spurs to the EU for receiving illegal state aid!

Last edited by JimB; May 31st, 2012 at 10:20 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:19 AM   #4408
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Oi 10000 posts Why don't you say the same thing to Fl@shman who has a pop at West Ham (Usually a pretty abusive one)any chance he gets on an ARCHITECTURAL forum when all any body wants to discuss is the actual stadium.Just outing him for what he is.A Spurs loving West ham hater who takes it way to far.Call me a Pratt eh one of spurs longest ever servants.Btw I don't get offended when my Tottenham mates who refer to themselves as yids call me a pikey,ghandi,wet spam etc just a bit of banter like it should be.In the end You'll get your stadium,we'll get ours admit yours will probably be better just feel the way Levy went about the whole thing was pretty classless.
I'm all for banter - so long as it doesn't cross the line. And I've no problem with West Ham.

Nor do I subscribe to Flashman's views on West Ham.

But I'll repeat what I said at the time: Tottenham were the victims, not the perpetrators, of all the skulduggery. Their only "crime" was to hire a private detective (not an illegal act) in attempt to get to the bottom of it.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:48 AM   #4409
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Can't be bothered to rehash all or your points (highly biased)but regarding haringey council obtaining legal advice on illegal state aid here is the link
http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/m....aspx?ID=25189 page 11 paragraph 5.1
And I beleive it was you who told me to "man up"
During this whole process if the shoe was on the other foot Tottenham fans would be going Apeshit if we wanted to move into your manor and try to derail your whole clubs future.If Spurs could've come up with a plan to cover the running track a la Stade de France etc they may well of won but that was always a stipulation and everyone knew it.But to bid with the sole intention of gaining leverage to eradicate the affordable housing in the ndp for the working people of Tottenham in my opinion is terrible.
The People of East london and I include WHU deserve this regeneration after all no part of London has suffered more than the East End.And by the way I think you got totally shafted by uefa with regard to that stupid rule.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 10:51 AM   #4410
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It was when you were denigrating me for having only 5 posts and calling me a Pratt remember?
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Old May 31st, 2012, 11:08 AM   #4411
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Yeah Bye!
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Old May 31st, 2012, 08:03 PM   #4412
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It was when you were denigrating me for having only 5 posts and calling me a Pratt remember?
No one called you a "Pratt" (sic).

Rob said that you were behaving like a prat - attacking the behaviour rather than the person.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 08:32 PM   #4413
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Can't be bothered to rehash all or your points (highly biased)but regarding haringey council obtaining legal advice on illegal state aid here is the link
http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/m....aspx?ID=25189 page 11 paragraph 5.1
And I beleive it was you who told me to "man up"
During this whole process if the shoe was on the other foot Tottenham fans would be going Apeshit if we wanted to move into your manor and try to derail your whole clubs future.If Spurs could've come up with a plan to cover the running track a la Stade de France etc they may well of won but that was always a stipulation and everyone knew it.But to bid with the sole intention of gaining leverage to eradicate the affordable housing in the ndp for the working people of Tottenham in my opinion is terrible.
The People of East london and I include WHU deserve this regeneration after all no part of London has suffered more than the East End.And by the way I think you got totally shafted by uefa with regard to that stupid rule.
If you can't be bothered to rehash all the points, why on earth did you bother to reopen this discussion from two months ago????

As to the points that you raise:

1. Spurs have received and will receive no state aid. Every penny of Haringey's and the Mayor's money will be spent on public works.

2. Spurs fans were going far more "apeshit" at the prospect of our club moving to Stratford than West Ham fans were.

3. Spurs were repeatedly begged by Olympic and government officials to enter the bidding process and they were specifically told that they would not have to retain the running track at the Olympic site. They were lied to. End of story. After which, it was gloves off time.

4. Spurs bid for the Olympic stadium because it made huge financial sense to them. The subsequent relaxation of the requirement for affordable housing to be included in the NDP is an entirely separate matter. It's not at all uncommon for councils to relent in such matters - especially if a much needed development might otherwise not come to fruition at all.

5. Certainly, the east end suffered for many years. I have no objection to the area being the beneficiary of a massive £9 billion injection of public money over the past few years. What I won't stomach, however, is for West Ham fans subsequently to complain about a trifling £17 million of public money being spent on public works in Tottenham - an equally deprived and long suffering area as the east end.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 08:38 PM   #4414
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The POTUS won't be there actually. The Wife of the POTUS will be instead.
The wife of the POTUS is FLOTUS, isn't she?
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Old June 1st, 2012, 12:27 AM   #4415
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You guys are so ridiculously biased and Blinkered by your support for anything Spurs you'll beleive any old claptrap Levy spouts.Spurs have acted like true gentlemen haven't they.I didn't rehash my points as Rob H piously "couldn't be bothered to look up a post from 2 months ago.Show me any credible quote from any authority figure that stated the track didn't need to remain for the bidding process.You obviously have no regard neither do Spurs for affordable housing for the woking families in the area who would of spent their hard earned money following Spurs and shopping at the new Tescos,just a ploy to get a better deal for Spurs to make more money from the deal,remember your owner has about 3 billion quid how much more does he need.Working famalies are getting shafted and isn't it a coincidence that the decision was made soon after Tottenham threatened to leave the area with no regard at all for the local people,some of the most deprived in Europe.I didn't see any Spurs fans going apeshit there were thousands, Sugar Fl#shman and loads of my Tottenham mates were drooling at the mouth at the thought of the infrastructure and growing your already large fanbase into one of the biggest in Europe with scant regard of your roots.I'll give Levy his due he is an excellent spin meister and if no crimes were committed why were 3 guys arrested?Something underhanded and criminal was obviously going on.I also reckon that 17 million will grow exponentially, add that to no affordable housing or drastically reduced I again refer you to the link that no groundbreaking will take place untill the issue of illegal state aid is resolved by Levy's legal team.Tottenham have done everything in their power to try and destroy West Ham's move,You had no business even bidding for a stadium outside your manor.We are actually moving closer to our roots.I wonder what they are going to do next,probably another Judicial review by Hearn/Levy if Hearn doesn't get what he wants,funny how he had no problem Spurs moving in but West ham are the Devil even though a large portion of Orients gates are Hammers fans when we are playing away.
How can you possibly say with a straight face that the relaxation of the requirement for affordable housing is not connected.Levy playing hardball at the expense of the working class people of Tottenham.It would be disastrous for the area if Spurs left so Lammy will do whatever it takes to appease him.And I don't remember insulting you guys only Flashman who deserves it.Acting like a Pratt being called a Pratt whats the difference.
I've got no problem Spurs getting aid for their stadium they deserve it but when you do everything in your power to **** up our future yes the gloves are off,I believe there are upwards of 20000 signatures for a petition to the EU even if we lose perhaps we can delay as long as possible and tie it up in the European courts(believe they have a long backlog)West Ham may be a fairly small provincial club but we will not lay down and get bullied by you lot.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:07 AM   #4416
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Mr Anderson.What do you think of the news that Barry Hearn now wants a possible groundshare afer all that he has said.I personally am dead against it.
Apologies for the delay in reply. I tend to look on here more for developments on the stadium and park. There are more informative places to look with regard to West Hams plans and views of the fans than this site.

But in answer to your question, Hearn has gone full circle with his latest plans to talk to West Ham with a view to ground sharing.

IN Hearns own words: "The Olympic stadium is not fit for football. Someone has to say it. I’ve been there, I’ve had consultants [look at it], I want it because it’s 750 yards away from our [Leyton Orient] ground.

“The fact is, though, when you look at the design, it’s a magnificent athletics stadium but you can’t play football there.

“West Ham can do whatever West Ham want to do, I will object to having a major club right on my doorstep threatening to put me out of business. You must expect me to fight my corner."


Absolute hypocrite!

I would also add:

From the Premier League Handbook Season 2011/12

SECTION I

GROUND CRITERIA

Ground Sharing
4. No Club shall have or enter into a ground-sharing agreement unless the agreement contains a legally enforceable provision to the effect that the playing of the Club’s League Matches shall always take precedence over the activities of the other party to the agreement.

Right, that's the premier league....

If the football league have the equivalent of that in their rules then a ground share with Orient is totally impossible whoever might be in favour of it because it's simply not possible for both parties to have legal precedence over one another.

For that same reason it definitely rules out premier league teams sharing, so it totally rules out any possibility of sharing with Tottenham as has recently been suggested in this forum, and it raises the question of even if football league rules allowed Orient to share what would happen in the admittedly unlikely event that they ever won promotion to the premier league.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 02:25 AM   #4417
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You guys are so ridiculously biased and Blinkered by your support for anything Spurs you'll beleive any old claptrap Levy spouts.Spurs have acted like true gentlemen haven't they.I didn't rehash my points as Rob H piously "couldn't be bothered to look up a post from 2 months ago.Show me any credible quote from any authority figure that stated the track didn't need to remain for the bidding process.You obviously have no regard neither do Spurs for affordable housing for the woking families in the area who would of spent their hard earned money following Spurs and shopping at the new Tescos,just a ploy to get a better deal for Spurs to make more money from the deal,remember your owner has about 3 billion quid how much more does he need.Working famalies are getting shafted and isn't it a coincidence that the decision was made soon after Tottenham threatened to leave the area with no regard at all for the local people,some of the most deprived in Europe.I didn't see any Spurs fans going apeshit there were thousands, Sugar Fl#shman and loads of my Tottenham mates were drooling at the mouth at the thought of the infrastructure and growing your already large fanbase into one of the biggest in Europe with scant regard of your roots.I'll give Levy his due he is an excellent spin meister and if no crimes were committed why were 3 guys arrested?Something underhanded and criminal was obviously going on.I also reckon that 17 million will grow exponentially, add that to no affordable housing or drastically reduced I again refer you to the link that no groundbreaking will take place untill the issue of illegal state aid is resolved by Levy's legal team.Tottenham have done everything in their power to try and destroy West Ham's move,You had no business even bidding for a stadium outside your manor.We are actually moving closer to our roots.I wonder what they are going to do next,probably another Judicial review by Hearn/Levy if Hearn doesn't get what he wants,funny how he had no problem Spurs moving in but West ham are the Devil even though a large portion of Orients gates are Hammers fans when we are playing away.
How can you possibly say with a straight face that the relaxation of the requirement for affordable housing is not connected.Levy playing hardball at the expense of the working class people of Tottenham.It would be disastrous for the area if Spurs left so Lammy will do whatever it takes to appease him.And I don't remember insulting you guys only Flashman who deserves it.Acting like a Pratt being called a Pratt whats the difference.
I've got no problem Spurs getting aid for their stadium they deserve it but when you do everything in your power to **** up our future yes the gloves are off,I believe there are upwards of 20000 signatures for a petition to the EU even if we lose perhaps we can delay as long as possible and tie it up in the European courts(believe they have a long backlog)West Ham may be a fairly small provincial club but we will not lay down and get bullied by you lot.
I agree that Flashman is a ****. He has been anti Olympic Stadium from day one and I am not sure why he even bothers looking at this site. With him though, it is a case of sour grapes as he was sure Spurs would win with their bid and it seriously put his nose out of joint. He had a dig at every opportunity but funnily enough he has quietened down. Still a **** though!

I wouldn't take anything personal on this site, people have their opinions and are entitled to their opinions. Unless you want to spend half your life on here arguing the toss over trivial things I really wouldn't bother.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:26 AM   #4418
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You guys are so ridiculously biased and Blinkered by your support for anything Spurs you'll beleive any old claptrap Levy spouts.Spurs have acted like true gentlemen haven't they.I didn't rehash my points as Rob H piously "couldn't be bothered to look up a post from 2 months ago.Show me any credible quote from any authority figure that stated the track didn't need to remain for the bidding process.You obviously have no regard neither do Spurs for affordable housing for the woking families in the area who would of spent their hard earned money following Spurs and shopping at the new Tescos,just a ploy to get a better deal for Spurs to make more money from the deal,remember your owner has about 3 billion quid how much more does he need.Working famalies are getting shafted and isn't it a coincidence that the decision was made soon after Tottenham threatened to leave the area with no regard at all for the local people,some of the most deprived in Europe.I didn't see any Spurs fans going apeshit there were thousands, Sugar Fl#shman and loads of my Tottenham mates were drooling at the mouth at the thought of the infrastructure and growing your already large fanbase into one of the biggest in Europe with scant regard of your roots.I'll give Levy his due he is an excellent spin meister and if no crimes were committed why were 3 guys arrested?Something underhanded and criminal was obviously going on.I also reckon that 17 million will grow exponentially, add that to no affordable housing or drastically reduced I again refer you to the link that no groundbreaking will take place untill the issue of illegal state aid is resolved by Levy's legal team.Tottenham have done everything in their power to try and destroy West Ham's move,You had no business even bidding for a stadium outside your manor.We are actually moving closer to our roots.I wonder what they are going to do next,probably another Judicial review by Hearn/Levy if Hearn doesn't get what he wants,funny how he had no problem Spurs moving in but West ham are the Devil even though a large portion of Orients gates are Hammers fans when we are playing away.
How can you possibly say with a straight face that the relaxation of the requirement for affordable housing is not connected.Levy playing hardball at the expense of the working class people of Tottenham.It would be disastrous for the area if Spurs left so Lammy will do whatever it takes to appease him.And I don't remember insulting you guys only Flashman who deserves it.Acting like a Pratt being called a Pratt whats the difference.
I've got no problem Spurs getting aid for their stadium they deserve it but when you do everything in your power to **** up our future yes the gloves are off,I believe there are upwards of 20000 signatures for a petition to the EU even if we lose perhaps we can delay as long as possible and tie it up in the European courts(believe they have a long backlog)West Ham may be a fairly small provincial club but we will not lay down and get bullied by you lot.
Firstly, I have to ask, are you aware of the concept of paragraphs? They would make your post somewhat easier to read.

Now, to answer your points, in turn:

1. It is well documented that Spurs were told that there was no need to retain the track at the Olympic stadium site. The only requirement was that there had to be provision for an athletics stadium somewhere.

Without that condition, Spurs would not have entered the bidding, wasted a year and incurred the considerable bid costs. Simples.

2. Affordable housing is one way in which councils try to squeeze planning gain out of developers. That's all very well if the developers are giant, international companies with multi billion pound turnover and huge profits.

But Spurs are no such thing. They will be investing £450 million of their own money into an area that has received **** all by way of public or private investment in local infrastructure for many decades. It is a huge commitment, fraught with risk, for a company of Spurs' modest size. If the figures don't add up, there is a real danger that the project could threaten Spurs' very existence.

Having been forced by English Heritage and CABE to halve the number of housing units that they wanted to build; and having been required to make provision for a high ratio of affordable housing among the remaining units, Spurs' figures no longer added up. Which meant that there was no way that they could sensibly or prudently proceed with the development.

It's a matter of simple economics.

In such cases, when a much needed major development will not come to fruition unless the requirement to provide affordable housing is dropped, it is quite common for the local council to wave the requirement. There is nothing scandalous or unusual about this.

As to your comically Dickensian hand wringing and moralising about the poor "working families" of Tottenham, two things:

a) Part of the problem is that there aren't nearly enough workers in Tottenham - the area is blighted by a lack of jobs and widespread unemployment. The NDP, if Spurs can afford it, will provide a huge boost to the local job market. Bingo.

b) Your whingeing on behalf of the "working families" of Tottenham is even more comically misplaced because there is actually a surfeit of low cost housing in the area. It is good quality private housing that is in short supply and much needed.

Lastly, in response to your risible attempt to claim some kind of moral high ground with regard to affordable housing, I have to ask - how much are West Ham contributing to their "manor"?

Hmmm........I thought not.

I tell you what...........come back to us with your self righteous blathering when West Ham have committed to investing even half as much in east London as Spurs have committed to investing in north Tottenham. Okay?

3. Joe Lewis' wealth is neither here nor there. He doesn't have £3 billion lying around in cash. His wealth is tied up in a variety of companies and properties around the world. Visit the Tavistock Group website if you care to educate yourself. Besides, why should Joe Lewis pay for what successive governments (local and national) have failed to do?

And. once again, I ask - how much have Sullivan and the Golds (between them, worth in excess of £1 billion) contributed to public works in east London?

....exactly.

4. There were certainly some Spurs fans who, like the Spurs board of directors, saw financial sense in moving to the Olympic site. But the majority of Spurs fans were opposed to the move.

5. I didn't say that no crime had been committed. I correctly said that hiring a private investigator is not a crime. And that is all that Spurs did. It was the private investigators who, of their own accord, broke the law by illegally obtaining copies of Karen Brady's phone records. And that is why they were arrested and face prosecution. No one connected with Spurs faces any charges.

6. For the umpteenth time, I repeat that there is no issue relating to illegal state aid. Not a single penny of public money will go to Spurs.

7. You "reckon" that the £17 million will grow exponentially? Well, good for you. But what you reckon doesn't really count for much since it is nothing more than crystal ball gazing and guesswork. More importantly, if public money above and beyond £17 million is spent on public works in the area, then it will still be a trifling amount compared to the £9 billion plus of public money that has already been spent on regenerating east London over the past few years.

So, once again, your perpetual whingeing about this £17 million comes across as selfishness in the extreme. I'd advise you to stop embarrassing yourself in such a fashion if I thought that you would listen.

8. As to your final threat to pursue your complaint in the European courts, good luck with that, fella. And good luck with manning up and getting a life. My guess is that you'll need it.

Last edited by JimB; June 1st, 2012 at 09:19 AM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:37 AM   #4419
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Apologies, all, that westhammatt has resuscitated this discussion and taken the thread off topic. I hope you understand why I couldn't allow his comments to pass unanswered.

Hopefully he'll tire of it soon and it will pass.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:27 AM   #4420
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I'm done.Had my rant got way more important things to worry about.Good luck pinky and perky.See you at the boleyn,my prediction.4-2 West Ham.
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