MRT/LRT News

[Mith252]

Hmm, interesting. With regards to the bus model, I guess it would be similar to London's system. Also, interesting hint on the orbital line.

Anyway, thanks for the update!!

[Seloloving]

ddes, you missed out that he hinted that there will be another "NorthSouth" Line (TSL) and a varying form of "EastWest" Line (OCL).

Both kinda sound like vague hints to TSL and ERL.

The new lines will be much like the existing Circle Line, in not only connecting new towns but also linking commuters from one area to another without having to go through the city centre.

It could be, say, from the eastern or north-eastern end to the south-western end, Transport Minister Lui Tuck Yew said in an interview this week.

Other hint, North West Line?

[Mith252]

Nice, thanks for the additional info!

Also, its deskoh91, not ddes that posted the news.

[deskoh91]

Yes I missed that nugget out, thanks Selo for the text and Mith for clarifying

[ddes]

I think the transport minister is picking up at straws, really. At this moment of time, when you're envisioning the opening of lines in 2030, you're more or less only establishing corridors that need to be served. With the rise of more suburban or secondary city centres such as Jurong Lake Region, Changi Business Park and many more in the pipeline, there'll be an increased need to connect these areas. Because of Singapore's unique planning, it is most certain that these lines will be orbital in one way or another.

Mith's right. The bus model is very similar to London's, as well as the rail, really. However, I've got to question its effectiveness. Technically, SMRT should've been given the boot, because in every way you look at it, they clearly failed their primary function. On a more macro scale, it exposed how unprepared Singapore actually was for accidents. Imagine, a terrorist attack. Yet, they remain, probably because of their anciliary revenue, which obviously will be put to good use co-funding the improvements to the NS and EW lines. To be honest, all the COI did was blame nobody. If the authorities can't even be trusted to regulate the rail operators to not only provide a service, why should it work on the bus network?

[deskoh91]

At least the plans will outline which corridors are going to be served and how they will be connected. It will also be an indication of new regions to be developed two decades down the road. Preliminary alignments of DTL, TSL and ERL were announced in the concept plans and a more detailed listing of corridors served by every line was released about a decade before they were due to be built. The actual stations were only be announced very near to the beginning of civil works after detailed studies. If lines to be ready by the next decade is announced now, it fits into the flow of how future lines have been introduced in recent years.

I agree that the government is taking on very heavy responsibilitiy over the public transport network. The whole tendering should work out fine, especially on the bus aspect, if they are capable enough. The calibre of the authorities in managing the system can probably be seen in the recommendations when the various reports relating to the breakdowns go public. To me LTA nearly has absolute power over the systems right now anyway that any changes made will not make a great difference to how much influence they wield over the network. SMRT and SBST only really makes operational decisions, nothing too strategic.

[wd1]

It will be interesting to see how much LTA can use competitive tendering to push for improvements in efficiency and service quality. It would seem that shorter leases of buses and routes (say 3-5 years?) would allow for a credible deterrent for poor management like that which led to the big failures last dec.

We might have to get used to bus routes alternating between beige and purple buses.

If the govt owns the buses and sets the routes too, the regulatory regime will also have to be carefully devised to minimise moral hazard of the operators blaming the capital asset owners for failures - or even vice versa.

[Barrin]

Originally Posted by deskoh91

At least the plans will outline which corridors are going to be served and how they will be connected. It will also be an indication of new regions to be developed two decades down the road. Preliminary alignments of DTL, TSL and ERL were announced in the concept plans and a more detailed listing of corridors served by every line was released about a decade before they were due to be built. The actual stations were only be announced very near to the beginning of civil works after detailed studies. If lines to be ready by the next decade is announced now, it fits into the flow of how future lines have been introduced in recent years.

I agree that the government is taking on very heavy responsibilitiy over the public transport network. The whole tendering should work out fine, especially on the bus aspect, if they are capable enough. The calibre of the authorities in managing the system can probably be seen in the recommendations when the various reports relating to the breakdowns go public. To me LTA nearly has absolute power over the systems right now anyway that any changes made will not make a great difference to how much influence they wield over the network. SMRT and SBST only really makes operational decisions, nothing too strategic.

also like to add that in response to this news, DTL, TSL and ERL has become top pirority, likely a major rush again at LTA to get these lines up and running before 2020 to 2022?
Also means concurrently, they'll be planning on newer lines, maybe the Seletar line, HLL, etc.

an old outdated info that selo gave( refer to CCL thread page 302) might give rise to a possiabilty, if assuming that BSS(bishan south )might be used for seletar line? and maybe Lorong chuan still retain as interchange, however the location might be shifted a bit further west to the blk 150+ area wheres theres an empty ground there.

[deskoh91]

Actually which part of the article did they say they are focusing on the existing lines again? All I noticed was them pointing out they will be completed in the next 10 years (I.e. 2022). On the other hand its more focused on hinting on some upcoming ideas they have.

[Barrin]

actually it's based on a number of factors

mainyly due LTA always give themselves a margin time for error should somethig crops up, so by giving themselves 10 years time deadline, to them it means that by jan or dec 2022, these 3 lines must be up and operational, after all they have to ensure that they keep up with the transport minister announced deadline, anything completed earlier is a bonus.


that also means that the DTL, TSL and ERL would start to ramp up their speed in doing things, since DTL is to be up in 2017, therefore DTL would have the most pirority first, next in line would be TSL and after that ERL, likely the additional lines after ERL would start commencing planning, survey phase maybe at the very latest after DTL 3 or TSL is operational.

so while they are doing DTL, TSL and maybe ERL now, but somewhere in 2015 to 2020, they may start thrashing out the lines after ERL,and also maybe considering merger of SLL with HLL?? etc..

[deskoh91]

2022 is no acceleration, but a continuation at their current pace. We are already largely looking at a 2019 TSL completion. I won't be surprised if the effects snowball onto the ERL. I believe the original CCL/DTL team is working on ERL right now while the TSL/Existing Lines team have their hands full at the moment. Signs of preliminary works along the ERL route are only beginning to appear and chances are its a 2021 opening at the earliest.

As the existing lines team free themselves a little by 2016, we can start looking forward to the preliminary investigations of lines due for the next decade which we will know about next year. My personal opinion is that the pace of roughly 2 years per opening of a major rail segment that we are witnessing this decade will be sustained until the late 2020s (2027 maybe) with another three lines.

[deskoh91]

Just to add, the three lines should be along corridors with ready demand and not too far into the future. Perhaps that would be the Holland Line, a east to west line as hinted in the article and the equivalent of a western ERL, as the many 40 storey BTOs along the existing EWL looks set to overload it together with NSL transferees from JUR. T7 looks likely as well based on what was seen in TSL docs and the talk about orbital lines. We may also be looking at some sort of modified coastal line that runs from the east to southwest, perhaps an extended North Shore Line. Seletar Line looks a little early at the moment with many of its suburban areas being undeveloped and its southern alignment has been adopted by TSL.

[wd1]

Originally Posted by deskoh91

T7 looks likely as well based on what was seen in TSL docs and the talk about orbital lines. We may also be looking at some sort of modified coastal line that runs from the east to southwest, perhaps an extended North Shore Line. .

the alternative route for the OCL would have been an alignment connecting T7 to Beauty World - but your idea of an extended North Shore Line sounds better as it does not have to cross the nature reserve. it could run under Mandai Rd, stopping at the Zoo, interchanging with a future DTLe station north of Gali Batu, and onwards to Tengah, Jurong West and maybe even Jurong Island.

[mdzulkar9]

- NCL is a giveaway. The buses from Woodlands to Sengkang, Punggol, Tampines, Pasir Ris, Bedok and IKEA, Changi Airport are always full. Always.

- Seletar will never happen in the next 10-20 years. If you take a look, it's full of bungalows and private property, and it does cross the Serangoon Gardens area, which I believe doesn't need that much support from an MRT system yet. Maybe when the Seletar neighbourhood does bloom, and the Seletar Airport booms as well, that this line will happen.

- HLL is a huge possibility and I still believe in the disconnection of the DBG branch of CCL because CCL6 will happen. The DBG Branch really doesn't do much and it seems like it's an afterthought. They need CCL6 to happen because the holes make no sense. HBF is so near MRB but you have to either change to the NEL-NSL or bus to get to the other side which isn't wise. Think about it. PMD can be the terminus (though it is numbered CC4), CCL can take the upper platform and HLL can take the lower platform. Each with at least 2 - 3min frequency. I don't know. This needs a lot of planning. HAHAHA.

- as well as a western "ERL", that links the areas of Orchard-Alexandra-West Coast-Corporation-Jurong West area, sort of an in-between of the CCL and EWL.

- T7 line is coming, but linking bedok-hougang-AMK is pretty unneeded at the moment because buses like 87, 25, 854 and the CCL can hold for the time being.

- a DTLe that extend on both ends is highly possible. The west end can link up to Woodlands which gives it a chance to open up NS6, Sungei Kadut and extension on the eastern end can join up to the under-interchangeable ERL.

- Isn't there a JRL coming up soon?

[Simon91]

I've got a feeling they will run the T7 line all the way from ERL to Bukit Panjang and Choa Chu Kang, which suddenly gives it way more meaning. Actually, since a bulk of it would run non-stop under the central catchment area, it could provide a rapid alternative to EWL/NSL.

[sandstorm6299]

Unlikely to cross under the catchment areas. Where are you going to build the ventilation buildings and emergency infrastructure?

[Simon91]

along the roads that run to the pumps or silos or whatever it is beside reservoirs?

[Barrin]

Originally Posted by mdzulkar9

- NCL is a giveaway. The buses from Woodlands to Sengkang, Punggol, Tampines, Pasir Ris, Bedok and IKEA, Changi Airport are always full. Always.

- Seletar will never happen in the next 10-20 years. If you take a look, it's full of bungalows and private property, and it does cross the Serangoon Gardens area, which I believe doesn't need that much support from an MRT system yet. Maybe when the Seletar neighbourhood does bloom, and the Seletar Airport booms as well, that this line will happen.

- HLL is a huge possibility and I still believe in the disconnection of the DBG branch of CCL because CCL6 will happen. The DBG Branch really doesn't do much and it seems like it's an afterthought. They need CCL6 to happen because the holes make no sense. HBF is so near MRB but you have to either change to the NEL-NSL or bus to get to the other side which isn't wise. Think about it. PMD can be the terminus (though it is numbered CC4), CCL can take the upper platform and HLL can take the lower platform. Each with at least 2 - 3min frequency. I don't know. This needs a lot of planning. HAHAHA.

- as well as a western "ERL", that links the areas of Orchard-Alexandra-West Coast-Corporation-Jurong West area, sort of an in-between of the CCL and EWL.

- T7 line is coming, but linking bedok-hougang-AMK is pretty unneeded at the moment because buses like 87, 25, 854 and the CCL can hold for the time being.

- a DTLe that extend on both ends is highly possible. The west end can link up to Woodlands which gives it a chance to open up NS6, Sungei Kadut and extension on the eastern end can join up to the under-interchangeable ERL.

- Isn't there a JRL coming up soon?

i would like to disagree with you on the seletar potion, to what i see, seletar is slowly developing, with senkang beside it, i doubt it will remain undeveloped for the next 20 years.
another fact i would like to state is the seletar airport/camp area, as many can see most of what used to be seletar camp is now private property, as compared with the same area in the mid 1990s.

to what i see seletar is developing, abliet at a slower pace but still developing.

[y2koh]

I will say that HLL will be the next line to seriously consider. It will provide relief to both NSL and EWL significantly, and also quickly boost Tengah New Town. Either one of T7 line or SLL can be next, both will be able to provide relief for the fast developing new towns of Punggol and Sengkang. The density in the 2 new towns justify a new line to be built quickly before NEL becomes the next NSL. With Changi and Jurong as business destinations getting into momentum, I will place my bets on T7 line, which helps to bypass the CBD portions of the existing lines. This will also have an effect of decentralization of the CBD too.

[AzMean]

yeah.. they need a line to supplement the DTL and CCL lines to the towns further in the west. Too much housing expansion there but they are only making it worse by extending the EW line into Tuas.