Milwaukee Development News

[Eriol]

This is a cool picture I just saw on Wikipedia. I don't remember seeing a good picture of Borchert Field before. That drawing of County Stadium is the earliest version before any expansion, when the American Association Brewers were expected to play there before the Braves came. In fact, the old Brewers never did, as the Braves came immediately and the Brewers moved to Toledo.

[mohammed wong]

Wow Borchert field was really weird looking but cool.
Too bad its still not around, thats what ballparks
are SUPPOSED to be IMHO, a place IN a neighborhood.

[SpiderMonkey]

Originally Posted by Eriol

This is a cool picture I just saw on Wikipedia. I don't remember seeing a good picture of Borchert Field before. That drawing of County Stadium is the earliest version before any expansion, when the American Association Brewers were expected to play there before the Braves came. In fact, the old Brewers never did, as the Braves came immediately and the Brewers moved to Toledo.

Wow, left and right center field are way out there. And left along the line and right along the line are pretty short. Quite a big difference to hit a home run.

[mgk920]

Originally Posted by SpiderMonkey

Wow, left and right center field are way out there. And left along the line and right along the line are pretty short. Quite a big difference to hit a home run.

It was shaped like the old Polo Grounds in NYC (Manhattan).

The old Triple-AAA Brewers moved to Toledo and became the Mud Hens? Interesting!



And even though I was not alive when it was in use, I do think of what the place must have been like whenever I drive over the site on I-43 (from Burleigh to Chambers streets).

Mike

[Eriol]

Actually, The Brewers became the Toledo Sox, apparently, but only lasted for three years before they were moved to Wichita to become the Braves, as they had been the Milwaukee Braves AAA team.

I didn't know that, I looked it up out of curiosity. The current Mudhens started in 1965 when the Yankees moved their AAA from Richmond. Crazy!

[SWDetroit]

Originally Posted by SpiderMonkey

Wow, left and right center field are way out there. And left along the line and right along the line are pretty short. Quite a big difference to hit a home run.

Borchert Field was simply a poorly designed ballpark. Nevertheless, even a Green Bay Packers game was played there.

A typical Milwaukee block for the grid streets was exactly five acres: 330 feet (E/W) by 660 feet (N/S), measured from the middle of the streets. (16 blocks per mile E/W and 8 blocks per mile N/S.)

Obviously, a block only 330 feet wide (counting the streets, terraces, and sidewalks) cannot contain a sensible playing field for baseball.

Bill Veeck once owned the ball team there. For one game (before the League stepped in), Veeck had his grounds crew wheel in a specially built, high fence by the very short left-field line when the opposing team was batting.

Ten years ago, the operator of a website covering all the major and minor league ballparks snail-mailed me a couple pictures of Borchert Field. I corrected some of his data concerning some defunct Detroit Tigers ballparks in Detroit and Springwells (West Detroit, according to the railroads there), and I mentioned to him that my parents lived in deep left field right across the street of Borchert Field eons ago. Only two houses in the 800 block of Burleigh were visible in one of the two pictures, one of which very coincidentally was where my parents lived when I was born.

(The second owner of the Tigers once owned the real estate upon which my home is located. He also owned a very popular sports bar/hotel in downtown Detroit, which all the sportswriters and many athletes frequented in those days before TV and radio.)

[Crankbaiter]

just returned from Milwaukee after a 4 day trip. Stayed at Iron Horse and Hotel Metro. Went out in 3rd and 5th ward. AWESOME!!!!!

Did this walking food tour that took us to areas I did not know existed. Food and vibe was terrific.

[DooMer_MP3]

You came at a good time, because downtown dining week was going on where restaurants (like 30 or so) have special menus with a price limit and 3 courses. Definitely brought a lot of people out and about, and from outside the city. There was a lot of foot traffic even on Monday night.

[skylinedude]

The Milwaukee Economic Development Committee appealed to the Historic Plan Committee to reverse the interim historic designation for Sydney Hih. The vote will most likely be an immediate adoption file at the next Common Council meeting on Friday, July 6th. This will most likely not be a vote with public input. If the Common Council votes to deny the interim designation, which seems likely, the hold on the demolition permit will also be reversed and Sydney Hih would be torn down. The only way that will change is if they vote 8 to 7 in favor of the designation which seems to be a tough sell because whenever Alderman Bob Bauman supports saving something historic with more nostalga than merit, the Common Council will lean more towards a 10 to 5 vote for denying the historic designation, especially considering the city already owns Sydney Hih. Will see what happens next on July 6th.

[mohammed wong]

Im glad the city helped get the Moderne built.
But its a shame Milwaukee also couldnt pitch in enough funds to save sydney hih. It made it this far against the odds, only to fall to the wrecking ball.
A last vestige of the area now to bite the dust.

Milwaukee is losing an important building.

[neqquah]

I don't want to open a can of worms, but can some explain to me why Bob Donovan is so hellbent on stopping the streetcar? Hasn't it been explained over and over and over again that the money can't be used for anything else?

[jehuty]

@neqquah

Donovan doesn't like the streetcar because its Barretts idea. Donovan does not like Barrett. Donovan also feels like he should be major (hence why he always has press conferences about the dumbest things), but knows he will never ever be major of Milwaukee. He knows that the fed money has to go towards some form of transit (rail transit really). It just bothers him greatly cause he is trying to earn brwonie points with people who don't like Barrett. Problem is, in Milwaukee Barrett is very popular. Donovan on the other hand really isn't. I think he will probably lose in the next election.

So there you have it. Donovan knows the streetcar will happen just as the suburbs around Milwaukee do too. Even though the utilities tried to sabotage the project (kudos to Bauman for calling out their bluff and asking about charging them for use of Milwaukee infrastructure), and the western suburbs tried to involve themselves into this issue (looking at you guy from Oconomowoc), the street car will happen. What will be especially nice is when the ridership numbers culminate to something substantial that will make more routes necessary.

[usbmfa]

Originally Posted by jehuty

@neqquah

Donovan doesn't like the streetcar because its Barretts idea. Donovan does not like Barrett. Donovan also feels like he should be major (hence why he always has press conferences about the dumbest things), but knows he will never ever be major of Milwaukee. He knows that the fed money has to go towards some form of transit (rail transit really). It just bothers him greatly cause he is trying to earn brwonie points with people who don't like Barrett. Problem is, in Milwaukee Barrett is very popular. Donovan on the other hand really isn't. I think he will probably lose in the next election.

So there you have it. Donovan knows the streetcar will happen just as the suburbs around Milwaukee do too. Even though the utilities tried to sabotage the project (kudos to Bauman for calling out their bluff and asking about charging them for use of Milwaukee infrastructure), and the western suburbs tried to involve themselves into this issue (looking at you guy from Oconomowoc), the street car will happen. What will be especially nice is when the ridership numbers culminate to something substantial that will make more routes necessary.

You are probably right that common sense cannot stop this street car from being built, but I think you are wrong to think it will be expanded. There is not enough local money to pay for it, the state will not pay for it because it cannot be justified, and the feds are tapped out paying for a welfare state that is bankrupting the country. Unless some really nice, rich people want to pay for its expansion (presumeably to avoid a new 90% tax rate), it will be forever a two mile trolley from nowhere to nowhere.

[Twoaday]

@usbmfa Couple of things. Other cities received streetcar funds just this year from the federal government so I highly doubt there will never be these type of funds again in the future. Further, to say the streetcar will go from nowhere to nowhere, is well ridiculous. It travels through the highest population density in Wisconsin. It hits the high job density in Wisconsin. Multiple entertainment districts and plenty of hotels, quite clearly somewhere to somewhere.

[SWDetroit]

The Milwaukee streetcars will suffer the same financial fate as the ill-conceived 2.9-mile Detroit People Mover, which had a predicted annual ridership of 13 million 23 long-gone years ago. However, it never got anywhere near that figure and is now only 2.3 million annually--if those overly generous figures are to be believed. Detroit's government agencies--at all levels--always lie...

In any event, out of dire financial necessity the DPM currently is having to run out of an emergency "reserve" fund this year from a rapidly shrinking city (future ghost town, like much of Milwaukee's near North side where I was brought up, whose railroad freights have been running on empty for decades) that is likely going to be run by an emergency financial manager within a few months (or else a federal bankruptcy judge, the only other possibility).

The DPM receives annual cashbox revenues (fares) amounting to only 8% of its annual operating costs. Detroit's two bus systems are even in worse shape, with over 200 of the DDOT's (city) buses out of service for several months already. And the SMART (suburban) system has been systematically cutting out routes entirely and shortening the hours (and days) of service for those routes that remain.

If Milwaukee's LRT or streetcars had any real merit, they would have already have been built and running. But that never came to pass.

[GarfieldPark]

This is a thread about Milwaukee development. Detroit's various problems don't seem real relevant here. Detroit is in its own league. Just because something doesn't work in Detroit is no reason to assume the same thing will not work in another city. This is being written by someone who is not from Milwaukee.

[Paule]

Originally Posted by mohammed wong

Im glad the city helped get the Moderne built.
But its a shame Milwaukee also couldnt pitch in enough funds to save sydney hih. It made it this far against the odds, only to fall to the wrecking ball.
A last vestige of the area now to bite the dust.

Milwaukee is losing an important building.

If they're wrecking the building to simply open up land for development then I'm totally against that in this case, but if something of significance is in proposal for that site than I say make the building rubble. From everything I know nothing is being proposed for the site so I stand with saving the building. They tore down a whole freeway, spur as it may be, almost 10 years ago and it's still mostly vacant so they have more than enough land to use.

[SWDetroit]

Milwaukee shares many parallels with Detroit, so being unaware of (or ignoring) them is not a prudent course to take. Except that Detroit actually IS a skyscraper city, with plenty of them--unlike Milwaukee.

And Milwaukee's People Mover will be a worse boondoggle than Detroit's as there are nowhere near enough New Urbanist elitists in Milwaukee to support the streetcars. Once built and its novelty of an amusement-park ride wears off, it never will be expanded--just like the DPM.

As to saving derelict buildings like the SH, Detroit too has its nut-job preservationist dreamers who wanted to save the deathtrap, 14-floor Lafayette Building right in the heart of Detroit's downtown up to its very end three years ago when it finally was razed. That building had trees growing in its roofless upper three stories--and its loose, crumbling masonry falling unto its adjoining, blocked-off sidewalk on Shelby Street for the last three or four years of its totally useless existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayet...lding_(Detroit)

[CGII]

Originally Posted by SWDetroit

Milwaukee shares many parallels with Detroit, so being unaware of (or ignoring) them is not a prudent course to take. Except that Detroit actually IS a skyscraper city, with plenty of them--unlike Milwaukee.

And Milwaukee's People Mover will be a worse boondoggle than Detroit's as there are nowhere near enough New Urbanist elitists in Milwaukee to support the streetcars. Once built and its novelty of an amusement-park ride wears off, it never will be expanded--just like the DPM.

As to saving derelict buildings like the SH, Detroit too has its nut-job preservationist dreamers who wanted to save the deathtrap, 14-floor Lafayette Building right in the heart of Detroit's downtown up to its very end three years ago when it finally was razed. That building had trees growing in its roofless upper three stories--and its loose, crumbling masonry falling unto its adjoining, blocked-off sidewalk on Shelby Street for the last three or four years of its totally useless existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayet...lding_(Detroit)

[ThatGuy]

Ya, why would we ever want to save our heritage and old buildings, especially when they get us national attention, such as this contest from Outside Magazine...

https://www.facebook.com/outsidemaga...94161093969483