"Metrolinx still toys with the idea of downtown relief line"

[Innsertnamehere]

.... toronto is currently pumping around 2 billion towards capital transit expansion (1 billion towards new streetcars, $500 million for the spadina extension, $100 million for queens quay reconstruction, $100 million (i think) for the cherry street streetcar, and countless other little costs). i wouldn't call that nothing. plus we will be getting 18 km of subway this decade, possibly more if the yonge extension gets funded (or the drl, or sheppard east) toronto is certainly not lacking in the transit expansion file currently. we DO need to get plans moving for the DRL and other projects such as the Jane LRT, Waterfront LRT, and sheppard east subway if we want any expansion in the early 2020's though.

and yes, we do need a transit tax of some sort. whether that is a property tax, sales tax, or other, we need some way of raising about $500 million to a billion dollars a year for transit expansion.

[Nouvellecosse]

but he's right in that transit dollars are always limited, which is why I would so much rather the huge cost of Eglinton had been diverted to a DRL instead. It would have yielded so much more bang relative to buck.

[ssiguy2]

It's not like Toronto can blame Queen's Park or even Ottawa for that matter. For the Shep/Finch/Egl TC {or whatever the hell they are calling it now} Ottawa is contributing $300 million which is exactly $300 million than Toronto is.

What I've always wondered is where is the $3 billion Miller said Toronto would cough up for it's original $9 billion TC? Until Queen's Park was stupis enough to pay Toronto's share, Toronto was planning on paying for one third, so where the hell is that money and how exactly was Miller planning on coming up with Toronto's portion?

[Nouvellecosse]

The "anti-everything-but-cars" Ford is probably just keeping it to parade in front of the media as evidence of the surplus he magically created by cutting all of the wasteful gravy pinkos like Miller were supposedly drenched in.

[Kensingtonian]

Originally Posted by ssiguy2

It's not like Toronto can blame Queen's Park or even Ottawa for that matter. For the Shep/Finch/Egl TC {or whatever the hell they are calling it now} Ottawa is contributing $300 million which is exactly $300 million than Toronto is.

What I've always wondered is where is the $3 billion Miller said Toronto would cough up for it's original $9 billion TC? Until Queen's Park was stupis enough to pay Toronto's share, Toronto was planning on paying for one third, so where the hell is that money and how exactly was Miller planning on coming up with Toronto's portion?

The problem you outline is a direct result of the province under Mike Harris downloading a number of services to the municipal level without downloading a way to pay for them. I'm not saying Toronto is blameless, but the good majority of the blame lies with the extreme anti-urban policies of the Conservative provincial government in the '90s.

[ssiguy2]

Toronto is not unique..it happened to all Ontario municpalities. This, howver, has not stopped Ottawa from commiting it's own money to it's LRT nor Kitchener. London is hoping to create a BRT system and is willing to put up it's share.

My question wasn't answered........exactly where was Miller planning on getting his $3 billion or did he leave that part out when he made his announcement about TC?

[Gil]

Originally Posted by ssiguy2

Toronto is not unique..it happened to all Ontario municpalities. This, howver, has not stopped Ottawa from commiting it's own money to it's LRT nor Kitchener. London is hoping to create a BRT system and is willing to put up it's share.

My question wasn't answered........exactly where was Miller planning on getting his $3 billion or did he leave that part out when he made his announcement about TC?

The taxation powers granted by the province which Miller had begun to use (vehicle registration tax, land transfer tax, etc.) to generate money would slowly have accrued to help pay for these projects. Ford has since or is in the process of rescinding these taxes, all the while claiming that efficiencies can be found to make up the difference.

At some point you're going to run out of places to cut and squeeze. Hazel McCallion has come out saying that additional taxes, particularly dedicated ones, are required to help pay for transportation infrastructure improvements throughout the GTA. The money won't all show up at once, but they need to be put in place soon to get that piggy bank growing.

[OEincorparated]

What about implementing right of way for 5-6 unit streetcars along Queen.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Gil

The taxation powers granted by the province which Miller had begun to use (vehicle registration tax, land transfer tax, etc.) to generate money would slowly have accrued to help pay for these projects.

If we kept up with 2% to 3% tax increases, the surplusses over the last 3 years would have been $700 Million.

That's enough to fully cover the bills to date including legacy streetcars.

I don't think funding transit city would have been a problem over the original ~20 year time frame particularly if transfers were simpler. About half the money on Finch and Sheppard are going into the transfer points.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OEincorparated

What about implementing right of way for 5-6 unit streetcars along Queen.

I don't think Queen is wide enough to have streetcars in a separate right-of-way in a center median. Besides, 5-6 cars is too long for city street service since part of the vehicle would block cross streets when it stopped due to block sizes being so small in the inner city.

[spearhead]

I agree. It's going to be costly to widened up that portion of Queen st. There are also historical houses along the road i believe.

[JustinB]

The Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study was finally released!

It's a big one.

http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TTC...ember_2012.pdf

The cheapest option for the DRL is $3.2B. This price tag seems quite low for a downtown subway line running through a dense area.

[doady]

A new subway line is the last thing Toronto needs. Think of the King St. restaurant row being threatened by destruction due to new condos. Just imagine how much more of King St would get destroyed if a subway line were built under it. More subways are just going to destroy the city and everything that makes it great. Though judging from all the condo construction that is already occuring, it may already be too late.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by doady

A new subway line is the last thing Toronto needs. Think of the King St. restaurant row being threatened by destruction due to new condos. Just imagine how much more of King St would get destroyed if a subway line were built under it. More subways are just going to destroy the city and everything that makes it great. Though judging from all the condo construction that is already occuring, it may already be too late.

How this plays out will be interesting.

A large number of downtown condos are being sold as a result of congestion making commutes unpleasant. It's entirely possible that a full DRL scheme (East & West) and improved GO could decrease pressure on condos within walking distance of downtown. There will be a ton more built over the next 10 years though unless mass layoffs occur.

That said, expect Office construction to step up to the plate once they can get an extra 100,000 workers per day into the core.

[JustinB]

In the report, the TTC says that the routing for the east leg is yet to be determined, I do not expect we'll see a subway under King St.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by JustinB

In the report, the TTC says that the routing for the east leg is yet to be determined, I do not expect we'll see a subway under King St.

Agreed although it will be close by (Wellington or Adelaide).

[icemachine]

Whatever they do, it will have to go deep in order to avoid building foundations relocating a ton of utilities

[Epi]

It would be great if they finally built a DRL. I hope they make sure they have a lot of stations. The pics in that document and which are floating around the media use suburban station spacing, which would be a huge mistake.

Actually they should just use TRZ's subway plan from a while back.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=670156

[doady]

^ The DRL (or East DRL) would be a north-south line east of Yonge to provide relief to the Yonge subway line (e.g. Pape-Don Mills). There's already a west DRL (the University-Spadina line) that intercepts riders heading to Yonge from the West, so the point of this new DRL should be to intercept riders heading to Yonge from the East. Building another subway line west of Union should not be a priority at all, and pretty much misses the whole point of the DRL concept in the first place.

[Canadian Chocho]

The lines only purpose isnt to just serve as a relief line or at least it shouldnt be. How many things are located on the west end that people actually need to go to? the answer is plenty.

Exhibition place, queen west, club district, ocad, etc...