Questions about Iraq

[Ali - Iraq]

You can quite clearly notice that Anbar is of course being ignored just like Diyala, Salahaddin and Ninawa. Don't look into it too much though or make any conclusions it is all just a mere coincidence!

Anbar, Diayala, Salahaddin and Ninawa ain't marginalized. Where do you have your sources from? They get their budget from the central government and so on. As an example you can compare Salahadin with Basra. What's difference besides all the oil comes from Basra? Do basrawwis have the best living conditions? I don't think so. I would like to see a source whereas it's proven that the central government are ostracizing the above-mentioned cities.

[sheytanElKebir]

my input on this.

I've posted several projects happening in anbar/diyala/salahudin/mosul. However the volume of work there is lower than in southern Iraq due to several factors:

1- these areas are dangerous due to terrorists still being harboured by some of the locals and thus foreign companies REFUSE to go there.

2- For the same reason Shias and other Iraqis also refuse to go there (I was given one assignment in Hamrin Mountain by the Turkish Petroleum Company and refused to go there... the project stopped as a result as they could find NO ONE willing to go there... OTOH I had absolutely 0 problems working in Baghdad, Karbala, Hilla, Nassiriya and Basra over the past years and drove around by myself for many years)... but to Anbar/Diyala/Tikrit I would be afraid to go there even with armed guards.

3- most of the "big work" happening is in the oil industry and companies either refused to bid for projects in these provinces, or pulled out after the locals threatened them (akkas gas project)

4- The average standard of living / housing /infrastructure in these areas is still better than the southern governorates, therefore those areas are in more accute need of infrastructural developments.

5- There are housing projects / stadium in ramadi, airport in tikrit, new hospitals being built that I have posted.

in addendum, developments will only take off in these provinces once not a single terrorist remains free to move around there. i.e. ALL the locals turn the terrorists in. Until that happens, not me, nor the international companies I worked with in Iraq, nor any other major companies will be willing to risk getting beheaded/blown up.

PS. in our last project in basra there were loads of guys from anbar and tikrit working with us, and all our truckies were maslawis since southerners get beheaded if they drive up "north" but maslawis were never ever attacked driving down to port.. meaning that all the truckies around Iraq now are maslawis, anbaris etc.

[Ali - Iraq]

terrorists still being harboured by some of the locals and thus foreign

Why?

I would be afraid to go there even with armed guards.

coward! xD

f guys from anbar and tikrit working with us, and all our truckies were maslawis since southerners get beheaded if they drive up "north" but maslawis were never ever attacked driving down to port.. meaning that all the truckies around Iraq now are maslawis, anbaris etc

What you are saying is that the conlfict between Shia and Sunni inside Iraq is still a problem?

[sheytanElKebir]

its not a problem that the majority participate in. Its still something being perpetrated by a small minority in Sunni-arab regions which destroys the development potential for the vast majority and keeps the area a "no go" zone for other Iraqis (even though the vast majority of people there are not terrorist supporters any more).

[Ali - Iraq]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

its not a problem that the majority participate in. Its still something being perpetrated by a small minority in Sunni-arab regions which destroys the development potential for the vast majority and keeps the area a "no go" zone for other Iraqis (even though the vast majority of people there are not terrorist supporters any more).

Good to hear. Why do the government not emphasize on diminishing the terrorist groups in these areas?

[Al-Hashimi]

Originally Posted by Ali - Iraq

Anbar, Diayala, Salahaddin and Ninawa ain't marginalized. Where do you have your sources from? They get their budget from the central government and so on. As an example you can compare Salahadin with Basra. What's difference besides all the oil comes from Basra? Do basrawwis have the best living conditions? I don't think so. I would like to see a source whereas it's proven that the central government are ostracizing the above-mentioned cities.

From what I hear this is the case and what Sheytan told me only further proofs that.

I mean he is saying that no foreign/local firms are willing to invest because the situation apparently is chaotic and Shia's are in danger of being beheaded and bombed as soon as they enter Sunni areas (LOL). That rhetoric is pretty ridicolous and also do not correspondent with the reality.

Sure there are areas where it's not wise to enter as a Shi'ah but the same can be said about Shi'ah majority areas in Baghdad and Southeastern Iraq. Does that mean that all Iraqi Shia's will behead/bomb any Iraqi Sunni as well? Of course not...

And what you tell is an example of marginalization.

How can Anbar and the other Sunni majority provinces (the biggest in Iraq) develop when the government/local and foreign firms are "punishing" all the inhabitants in those areas by not investing at all due to the actions of a tiny minority whose acts have been condemned by all the tribes in Al-Anbar? Ever heard about the Sunni Awakening?

Those Al-Qaeda terrorists have killed as many Sunnis as Shi'ah. The attacks a few days ago targeted Shi'ah Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Kurds.

Maybe the government should help crack down the armed groups in Al-Anbar and elsewhere (ALSO in the Shi'ah areas) instead of hiding away and letting the local Anbari police deal with it all alone.

What's the point of a state if that's the case? If there are major problems in a region in a particular country all elements of the coutnry participate to handle it not only the region affected. Otherwise they could as well become a autonomous region as Kurdistan is.

[sheytanElKebir]

al hashimi.

I left Iraq about a month ago and was working there for many years (since 2003), I hope you trust my judgement on safety issues. Southern Iraq is not dangerous for Sunnis, we have lots of sunnis coming to work on the oil projects down south and many of our troopers are from Sunni arab provinces. The sunni areas are dangerous because some of the terrorist groups still operate there and nowadays kill mostly other sunnis... other Iraqis and of course foreigners are apprehensive about going there. Whilst many of the sunni-arab fighters changed sides in the last few years many splinters continue to commit terrorist attacks keeping the area unsafe for engineers like us.

[Ali - Iraq]

What's the point of a state if that's the case? If there are major problems in a region in a particular country all elements of the coutnry participate to handle it not only the region affected. Otherwise they could as well become a autonomous region as Kurdistan is.

The case is money and perhaps nationalism. If these areas wasn't a part of Iraq then how should they survive by selling sand`?

If there are major problems in a region in a particular country all elements of the coutnry participate to handle it not only the region affected

Dude of course all politicians should sit down solving these kind of problems. Currently it's not the case since they are fighting over who controls the country.

[Al-Hashimi]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

al hashimi.

I left Iraq about a month ago and was working there for many years (since 2003), I hope you trust my judgement on safety issues. Southern Iraq is not dangerous for Sunnis, we have lots of sunnis coming to work on the oil projects down south and many of our troopers are from Sunni arab provinces. The sunni areas are dangerous because some of the terrorist groups still operate there and nowadays kill mostly other sunnis... other Iraqis and of course foreigners are apprehensive about going there. Whilst many of the sunni-arab fighters changed sides in the last few years many splinters continue to commit terrorist attacks keeping the area unsafe for engineers like us.

Well I get your point but please read my latest post carefully. It's the rhetoric I don't like. You know "every Shi'ah will be bombed/beheaded by the average Anbari living in Ar Rutbah for example".

Well there live a lot of Sunni's in Southern Iraq as well (Al-Basrah) but there are still cases where they are targeted as is the case with Shia's in provinces that are mainly inhabited by a Sunni majority.

But the point is. Where is the government? I am sure they could easily crack down a few hundred (at most) fanatics could they not? It's not like Al-Anbar is Kurdistan (mountains etc.)

I have my theories on that but I will leave it with that. To tell you frankly I don't trust the Al-Maliki government.

All-Iraq:

What do you mean by your first comment? Selling "sand"? Brother SumerianKing (thank you for the post - I completely forgot to reply - please forgive me) already explained that Al-Anbar is a extremely rich region in terms of natural ressources. There is gas, oil etc.

Your second sentence:

Well that's my point exactly. If they just deem these regions as dangerous/lawless regions and just let the local Anbaris do all the dirty work (with very limited ressources and success) how will they ever develop or feel as a part of Iraq?

They are already the most vulnerable region and most destroyed/affected during the 2003-2011 war.

It seems like the Al-Maliki regime are doing everything to destroy the unity of Iraq and make a Sunni Iraq, Shi'ah Iraq and Kurdish Iraq (already more or less a reality).

But hey, maybe Al-Maliki and his government really want's to help the Sunni regions but they have just not done it yet...

[Ali - Iraq]

already explained that Al-Anbar is a extremely rich region in terms of natural ressources. There is gas, oil etc.

What is the purpose of having extensive resources when companies won't invest? Besides what can the government do? If they can't ''even'' make Baghdad safe then how in hell shoud they improve the existing horrible situation in Tikrit?

hey why don't use the wrap(quoute) thing beside ''insert image''?

[Al-Hashimi]

Originally Posted by Ali - Iraq

What is the purpose of having extensive resources when companies won't invest? Besides what can the government do? If they can't ''even'' make Baghdad safe then how in hell shoud they improve the existing horrible situation in Tikrit?

hey why don't use the wrap(quoute) thing beside ''insert image''?

Well they (the same useless government as today) somehow managed to limit the influence of the Mahdi Army in Al-Basrah and Southern Iraq (same terrorists like Al-Qaeda) why should they not do it to a MUCH, MUCH smaller group of people in Al-Anbar?

Sheytan already explained from his experience that no major investors are willing to invest in the Sunni regions (the biggest in Iraq) due to the actions of a tiny minority. It's not the same case in Al-Basrah for example and Southern Iraq in general.

Since when is Tikrit located in Al-Anbar? It's located in Salah ad Din province 140 KM north of Baghdad. It's a completely different area than Al-Anbar which is Southwest of Baghdad.

[haiderpass]

well maybe its because the tribes of anbar/tikrit/Diyala refuse to give the central government any room to actually limit these terrorists. Your forgetting that Maliki launched a military strike on Jaish il mahdi in basra and the people of basra were happy. in 2004, allawi/US military launched a strike on jaish il Mahdi in Najaf & Karbala and the people of najaf were happy to see them go (i was actually there when it happened). whereas up until only a couple of years ago, the awakening council wasnt even formed, and even now when it has, they're all getting a salary from the government and some 70,000 of them have already been absorbed into the military. as for salahidin, im sure youve heard of what happened when the central government tried to arrest 150 people accused of being ba'thists there, and how theyve wanted autonomy since. frankly, they share your mentality, where they dont trust a shia government and i guess they will continue to be targeted by these splinter militant fractions until THEY choose to embrace the central authority and be a bigger part of the newly democratic iraq. kinda like how they boycotted the first election, but not the second.

[Al-Hashimi]

Oh yeah the same tribes who nearly all cooperated with the Al-Maliki government when they formed the Sunni Awakening in 2005? The same Sunni Awakening who expelled the majority of extremists/fanatics/terrorists while it took much longer for the Shia's in the Southeast to expel the MUCH, MUCH larger Mahdi army? Great logic.

There are many reasons why many tribes in the Sunni regions don't trust Al-Maliki's regime. Don't need to give you examples why that is.

The point still remains the same and as strong as before.

If they just deem these regions as dangerous/lawless regions and just let the local Anbaris do all the dirty work (with very limited ressources and success) how will they ever develop or feel as a part of Iraq?

They are already the most vulnerable region and most destroyed/affected during the 2003-2011 war.

How can Anbar and the other Sunni majority provinces (the biggest in Iraq) develop when the government/local and foreign firms are "punishing" all the inhabitants in those areas by not investing at all due to the actions of a tiny minority whose acts have been condemned by all the tribes in Al-Anbar during the successful Sunni Awakening?

Those Al-Qaeda terrorists have killed as many Sunnis as Shi'ah. The attacks a few days ago targeted Shi'ah Arabs, Sunni Arabs and Kurds.

Maybe the government should help crack down the armed groups in Al-Anbar and elsewhere (ALSO in the Shi'ah areas) instead of hiding away and letting the local Anbari police deal with it all alone.

It seems like the Al-Maliki regime are doing everything to destroy the unity of Iraq and make a Sunni Iraq, Shi'ah Iraq and Kurdish Iraq (already more or less a reality).

[BigDreamer]

guys, sorry to interrupt your discussion, but this thread is suppose to be used for quick Q&A with succinct answers.

you can always continue this discussion in the politics thread in Baghdad cafe.

[Basrawii]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

guys, sorry to interrupt your discussion, but this thread is suppose to be used for quick Q&A with succinct answers.

you can always continue this discussion in the politics thread in Baghdad cafe.

Drinks and snakes provided?

[BigDreamer]

didnt realise you have snakes with your drink basrawii

no thats what you call man's food !!

[Ali - Iraq]

Haha n1 bigdreamer. Basrawii i think u meant snacks xd

[Basrawii]

Originally Posted by Ali - Iraq

Haha n1 bigdreamer. Basrawii i think u meant snacks xd

Typing from my iPad ppl,,,,

[Chounz]

Question: How recent are the Kurds of Baghdad? I had always thought that they had lived in Baghdad for centuries... at least from the 1700s or so. But now I heard that they only started moving to Baghdad in the 20s or 30s.. and before then there were hardly any Kurds in Baghdad. How true is this?

[karar]

Originally Posted by Basrawii

Typing from my iPad ppl,,,,

turn auto correction off