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Old June 16th, 2012, 07:25 AM   #5441
Kenni
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Gosh. What can i say, LA became to be known as a symbol of,...what ever, because of its individuality.

We are not or have never been, in any time frame of our growth, a New York, Chicago, San Francisco, London, Buenos Aires or Paris.

When I hopped in a cab in March of 2010 in New York, the cabbie started to chit chat with me, "hey, where are you from?", as much as I was fascinated to be in New York for the first time, where a one way ticket in the Subway is over $5.00, when I said "Los Angeles", the cabbie was more fascinated than I was. "Wow" he said "LA, I always wish I could go there....." as he regurgitated all the unique things that makes LA,..."LA"; I started thinking how unique Los Angeles was, believe me it's not just the weather or Hollywood, it's the whole package. Yes, freeways, gridlock under a bright sun, palm trees, cool evenings on a hot summer day, purple mountains as a background.

If we force a transformation of this city for the sake of...........what ever, we will become just like them, bland city spin off of.....

They want to drive here, when they get here. They want to put their top down when they rent one, here. Putting the top down there is not as thrilling.
They want to come here to see our uniqueness, they don't want to find here what they have over there. They can hop into a subway underground there, but we can give them an option. They have toll roads (I HATE them), we have freeways. For f*cks sake, we invented a culture, then we were smart enough to merge it with smart solutions, those who imitated us (Houston, Dallas..) are choking.

San Francisco went Klams way and they are just a very cute clean city, and they were a world city when we were a collection of ranchos and haciendas.

Klams, yours is one extreme, and the other is a car-centric utopia. I'm somewhere in the middle.
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Old June 16th, 2012, 10:21 AM   #5442
milquetoast
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I think there's a place for cars in Los Angeles.
Let us face the fact that the car market isn't going anywhere!
I'm more into sheet metal and chrome, but the stuff they're
coming out with now is almost like a drug for buyers. The damn
things even park themselves now! There's a place for cars.
.
Before I was born there was real smog in this town!
And the streetcars were sharing the lanes from one end to another.
But, like "at grade LRT" and lanes for bikes, this must end.
I rode my bike from one end of the Valley to the other when I was 11.
I had real chrome side mirrors kissing up against my left handlebar!
Somehow I survived, and so can you, Klams!
.
We don't need diamond lanes and stupid ass tollways stealing our culture.
We can fund for Caltrans in other ways, the ways we always used to.
We have bike lanes in Vegas, and I drive in them! And every now and then,
and it's really rare here, but I'll see a Mexican palm in someone's backyard,
peeking over the homes for attention, all alone. It makes me sad.
Planners in Los Angeles may want shade trees, which is fine, but you
don't have to remove the palms in order to plant them!
.
It's funny you mention The Forum, which was "Fabulous" because,
well .. it looked fabulous! The architecture, not altogether genuine
Googie, or even avant-garde, was nevertheless unique! It was actually
a modern take on the classic themes of ancient Rome, with sweeping
columns arranged in oval support! Nothing else like it!
Farmers, is what Los Angeles seems to be about for the future-
and me no likey! I wouldn't want to take anyone from out of town there.
I wouldn't know what to say ....... "I know, it looks like a Maxi Pad!"
.
Gone are the big, iconic projects.
Gone is a sense of self long lost to the Progressives who want everyone
to either walk or bike down to Trader Joes with their hemp shopping bags,
the same bags that harbor killer bacterium mixed in with their organically
grown asparagus tips, and then bike back to their homes with their
sustainable desert rock garden yards, where they bring their single bag of
groceries in and hang up their helmet and their bike on the wall.
.
I want my mass transit big and large and out of the way, either under-
ground or overhead! I want my sports facilities to be wondrous affairs
where you can't wait for it to be built, instead of waiting for the planners
to come up with a rendering that doesn't suck!
And I don't want bike lanes on Sunset Boulevard!
.
Los Angeles is always at a crossroads because it's always growing and
changing. All I'm saying is make it better, not shittier!
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Old June 16th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #5443
klamedia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenni View Post
Gosh. What can i say, LA became to be known as a symbol of,...what ever, because of its individuality.

We are not or have never been, in any time frame of our growth, a New York, Chicago, San Francisco, London, Buenos Aires or Paris.

When I hopped in a cab in March of 2010 in New York, the cabbie started to chit chat with me, "hey, where are you from?", as much as I was fascinated to be in New York for the first time, where a one way ticket in the Subway is over $5.00, when I said "Los Angeles", the cabbie was more fascinated than I was. "Wow" he said "LA, I always wish I could go there....." as he regurgitated all the unique things that makes LA,..."LA"; I started thinking how unique Los Angeles was, believe me it's not just the weather or Hollywood, it's the whole package. Yes, freeways, gridlock under a bright sun, palm trees, cool evenings on a hot summer day, purple mountains as a background.

If we force a transformation of this city for the sake of...........what ever, we will become just like them, bland city spin off of.....

They want to drive here, when they get here. They want to put their top down when they rent one, here. Putting the top down there is not as thrilling.
They want to come here to see our uniqueness, they don't want to find here what they have over there. They can hop into a subway underground there, but we can give them an option. They have toll roads (I HATE them), we have freeways. For f*cks sake, we invented a culture, then we were smart enough to merge it with smart solutions, those who imitated us (Houston, Dallas..) are choking.

San Francisco went Klams way and they are just a very cute clean city, and they were a world city when we were a collection of ranchos and haciendas.

Klams, yours is one extreme, and the other is a car-centric utopia. I'm somewhere in the middle.
You're not in the middle, you're very extreme. You haven't addressed what it would take to make the city more livable for people who actually live here. Not for some cabbie who will never save up enough money to get here anyway.
1)How do you get cars off of the overly congested roads?
2)How do you make the city more walkable and pedestrian friendly?
3)How do we retain the talent that we have here and grow our economy?
4)How does the city compete with other cities that have taken the above steps in attracting new talent to their cities?
5)How do we further clean our air?
6)How do we lessen the income stratification and work towards a truly sustainable city?

Don't give me this middle era nostalgia of LA that was waxed over during the final years of I Love Lucy. In fact, we've gone through several incarnations of Los Angeles since then from Valley Girl to Boyz N The Hood to Crash.
The perky tit days of LA are over. Miami and Vegas have perkier ones. LA has to mature (and is doing so). If it wants to stay relevant and competitive it needs to solve some major issues that all great cities have to solve at some point in their lifespan(and revisit). This is a defining time for the city.
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 16th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #5444
klamedia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milquetoast View Post
I think there's a place for cars in Los Angeles.
Let us face the fact that the car market isn't going anywhere!
I'm more into sheet metal and chrome, but the stuff they're
coming out with now is almost like a drug for buyers. The damn
things even park themselves now! There's a place for cars.
.
Before I was born there was real smog in this town!
And the streetcars were sharing the lanes from one end to another.
But, like "at grade LRT" and lanes for bikes, this must end.
I rode my bike from one end of the Valley to the other when I was 11.
I had real chrome side mirrors kissing up against my left handlebar!
Somehow I survived, and so can you, Klams!
.
We don't need diamond lanes and stupid ass tollways stealing our culture.
We can fund for Caltrans in other ways, the ways we always used to.
We have bike lanes in Vegas, and I drive in them! And every now and then,
and it's really rare here, but I'll see a Mexican palm in someone's backyard,
peeking over the homes for attention, all alone. It makes me sad.
Planners in Los Angeles may want shade trees, which is fine, but you
don't have to remove the palms in order to plant them!
.
It's funny you mention The Forum, which was "Fabulous" because,
well .. it looked fabulous! The architecture, not altogether genuine
Googie, or even avant-garde, was nevertheless unique! It was actually
a modern take on the classic themes of ancient Rome, with sweeping
columns arranged in oval support! Nothing else like it!
Farmers, is what Los Angeles seems to be about for the future-
and me no likey! I wouldn't want to take anyone from out of town there.
I wouldn't know what to say ....... "I know, it looks like a Maxi Pad!"
.
Gone are the big, iconic projects.
Gone is a sense of self long lost to the Progressives who want everyone
to either walk or bike down to Trader Joes with their hemp shopping bags,
the same bags that harbor killer bacterium mixed in with their organically
grown asparagus tips, and then bike back to their homes with their
sustainable desert rock garden yards, where they bring their single bag of
groceries in and hang up their helmet and their bike on the wall.
.
I want my mass transit big and large and out of the way, either under-
ground or overhead! I want my sports facilities to be wondrous affairs
where you can't wait for it to be built, instead of waiting for the planners
to come up with a rendering that doesn't suck!
And I don't want bike lanes on Sunset Boulevard!
.
Los Angeles is always at a crossroads because it's always growing and
changing. All I'm saying is make it better, not shittier!
It's great to have an LA historian on the forum but the days of riding your bike from one end of the Valley to other is over and never coming back unless we put our roads on diets and create bike infrastructure. We must move forward.
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 16th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #5445
klamedia
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And what's this pushback with tolls from a few on this forum? I take a publicly funded modal type called bus and train that I pay into and still pay a % called a fare which is really a user fee on top of that to get where I need to go. I just paid twice for this service.

By contrast

You decided to go out and buy a vehicle from a private entity, drive it upon the public roads (namely freeways)that I help pay for because for whatever reason you don't want to take the public option and you aren't required to pay a user fee? You've only payed once. Why don't you want to pay your fair share????

And don't bring up the gas tax:
If I fill up my lawnmower and never own a car I will still be taxed and am still subsidizing your CHOICE to go out and buy a car from the private market. Or if I did go out and buy a car and never drove it on the freeways wouldn't I still be paying for the freeways?
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 17th, 2012, 12:47 AM   #5446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klamedia View Post
And what's this pushback with tolls from a few on this forum? I take a publicly funded modal type called bus and train that I pay into and still pay a % called a fare which is really a user fee on top of that to get where I need to go. I just paid twice for this service.

By contrast

You decided to go out and buy a vehicle from a private entity, drive it upon the public roads (namely freeways)that I help pay for because for whatever reason you don't want to take the public option and you aren't required to pay a user fee? You've only payed once. Why don't you want to pay your fair share????

And don't bring up the gas tax:
If I fill up my lawnmower and never own a car I will still be taxed and am still subsidizing your CHOICE to go out and buy a car from the private market. Or if I did go out and buy a car and never drove it on the freeways wouldn't I still be paying for the freeways?
Totally agree. The auto bailout was an absolute travesty. F*** CARS. F*** AUTO WORKERS. F*** OBAMA.
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Old June 17th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #5447
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I probably shouldn't have mentioned I rode my bike.
That got Klams all excited!

I'M NOT STOPPING FOR ANY BIKES!
I'M GONNA MOW THEM DOWN!
I ALREADY TOOK OUT ONE KID WHILST
DELIVERING PIZZA DURING THE 80s!
I'M STILL HUNGRY FOR MORE!

And another thing, the public option in
Los Angeles is just not up to my standards .. yet!
If I want to go to the airport, I ain't takin' no bus!
If I want to go to the beach, I ain't takin' no bus!
If I want to go to the port, I ain't takin' no Blue Line!
But then again, the kids fly really far when that thing hits them!
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Old June 17th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #5448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperydog View Post
Totally agree. The auto bailout was an absolute travesty. F*** CARS. F*** AUTO WORKERS. F*** OBAMA.
F*** OBAMA??? He doesn't drive?
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"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #5449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klamedia View Post

And don't bring up the gas tax:
If I fill up my lawnmower and never own a car I will still be taxed and am still subsidizing your CHOICE to go out and buy a car from the private market. Or if I did go out and buy a car and never drove it on the freeways wouldn't I still be paying for the freeways?
Bullshit ifs, but good try though.

You can bring up ifs on anything. It only makes you like you don't have any ammo left to argue with. And those ifs were not even good ones. sigh.

We pay taxes on allot shit we don't use, like welfare. Though we have the option to use it. You still have the option to use the freeway, even if you don't use it. Frankly keeping the freeways maintained keeps traffic off the surface street you are using. You can look at it many different ways.

The lawnmower if was just so bullshit it's not even worth addressing.
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Last edited by State of the Union; June 19th, 2012 at 08:41 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:53 AM   #5450
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YEAH!
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #5451
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Keep in mind that I agree with Klamedia's post, however we need to move away from ifs. Frankly I would've said don't bring up gas taxes because people don't pay gas taxes to cover highway maintenance and expansion. Klamedia does have a point that fares directly covers difference in the budget of the transit agency.

IMO, the tolls are a natural result of insufficient gas tax revenue. Lack funds from taxes are actually one of the reasons agencies state why they building these lanes, like the 91 Express Lane extension into Riverside County.

I find that people abuse things that are cheap, or better, free. I'm sure if gas prices were twice as high as they are now due to a tax increase, I'm sure most people would look at other options to getting around. Transit Ridership seems almost directly related with gas prices. However, on the same note, imagine if transit were free if we paid more taxes. Buses and trains would be filled beyond capacity, homeless sleeping on buses, etc. Capacity issues...sounds like our highways doesn't it?

I take transit myself, I don't even have a driver's license.
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Last edited by State of the Union; June 19th, 2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #5452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of the Union View Post

I find that people abuse things that are cheap, or better, free. I'm sure if gas prices were twice as high as they are now due to a tax increase, I'm sure most people would look at other options to getting around. Transit Ridership seems almost directly related with gas prices. However, on the same note, imagine if transit were free if we paid more taxes. Buses and trains would be filled beyond capacity, homeless sleeping on buses, etc. Capacity issues...sounds like our highways doesn't it?
Yeah........if.
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #5453
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Originally Posted by State of the Union View Post
We pay taxes on allot shit we don't use, like welfare. Though we have the option to use it. You still have the option to use the freeway, even if you don't use it.
For me take advantage of welfare what am I required to purchase?


The precedent was set in the 1980's concerning the Metro Green Line when the MTA was sued on the grounds of violating Environmental Justice laws. The argument was that there didn't exist a public option for poor residents who were being displaced out of their homes to make way for the I-105 freeway. The Green Line was built after a consent decree was reached to give access to those who did not own a car.


http://metrotransportationlibrary.wi...tro+Green+Line

PDF outlining the BRU's complaint:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kacG1rdqgSC2JQ

Before you come up in here with your shitty 188 posts calling out "bullshit" you need to do some research first. We have been discussing issues like this and this particular issue for at least 8 years and the fact that you came on here so emblazened clearly shows your immaturity and narrow-mindedness. This particular debate has many nuances and cannot be settled with simply calling something that you apparently have not given deep thought to "bullshit". Your charade as an intelligent poster and one that can foster thought-provoking points is now up for discussion. How could you so recklessly call me out for using "if's" and like a numb-skull follow up with a post littered with "if's"????(Post: 5451) What a complete and unrelenting idiot!! Please for future reference and so that I won't have to go off on you again have your wardrobe impeccably arranged with shoes matching before attacking me next time.
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup

Last edited by klamedia; June 19th, 2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #5454
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Let me make myself clear once again to all.

The issue is not me paying for something that I WON'T use.

The issue is that I'm paying for something that I CAN'T use.
__________________
"Self defense is not violence" - Malcolm X
"I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're so beautiful. Everything's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic." - Andy Warhol
Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 19th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #5455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klamedia View Post
For me take advantage of welfare what am I required to purchase?


The precedent was set in the 1980's concerning the Metro Green Line when the MTA was sued on the grounds of violating Environmental Justice laws. The argument was that there didn't exist a public option for poor residents who were being displaced out of their homes to make way for the I-105 freeway. The Green Line was built after a consent decree was reached to give access to those who did not own a car.


http://metrotransportationlibrary.wi...tro+Green+Line

PDF outlining the BRU's complaint:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kacG1rdqgSC2JQ

Before you come up in here with your shitty 188 posts calling out "bullshit" you need to do some research first. We have been discussing issues like this and this particular issue for at least 8 years and the fact that you came on here so emblazened clearly shows your immaturity and narrow-mindedness. This particular debate has many nuances and cannot be settled with simply calling something that you apparently have not given deep thought to "bullshit". Your charade as an intelligent poster and one that can foster thought-provoking points is now up for discussion. How could you so recklessly call me out for using "if's" and like a numb-skull follow up with a post littered with "if's"????(Post: 5451) What a complete and unrelenting idiot!! Please for future reference and so that I won't have to go off on you again have your wardrobe impeccably arranged with shoes matching before attacking me next time.
Damn I didn't even notice those ifs I wrote. You got me.

However, I stand by what I said. Ifs don't help arguments. I'm willing to be man and admit my mistake. Though, you are still making yourself look like an ass.

I will say though that your "ifs" were still bullshit though. You are using a lawnmower, then use an example of not using a freeway. Oh, and by the way, state maintained highways use gas taxes. It doesn't have be a freeway, it can be any State or US Routes, so it's bullshit either way.

But very well, I think it's time to be done with this thread.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #5456
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Whatever.....Glad you can admit your mistakes. Let's move on.
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Minimum parking standards are fertility drugs for cars. - Donald Shoup
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:42 AM   #5457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klamedia View Post
You're not in the middle, you're very extreme. You haven't addressed what it would take to make the city more livable for people who actually live here. Not for some cabbie who will never save up enough money to get here anyway.
1)How do you get cars off of the overly congested roads?
2)How do you make the city more walkable and pedestrian friendly?
3)How do we retain the talent that we have here and grow our economy?
4)How does the city compete with other cities that have taken the above steps in attracting new talent to their cities?
5)How do we further clean our air?
6)How do we lessen the income stratification and work towards a truly sustainable city?

Don't give me this middle era nostalgia of LA that was waxed over during the final years of I Love Lucy. In fact, we've gone through several incarnations of Los Angeles since then from Valley Girl to Boyz N The Hood to Crash.
The perky tit days of LA are over. Miami and Vegas have perkier ones. LA has to mature (and is doing so). If it wants to stay relevant and competitive it needs to solve some major issues that all great cities have to solve at some point in their lifespan(and revisit). This is a defining time for the city.
Klams, buses use freeways too.

And Klams, I'm definitely paying for your public transportation. Public transportation is not a business, it is heavily subsidized (with everyone's tax dollars) to keep fares affordable since mostly budgeted people use it.

Let's talk economics. Roads= economic growth. It was Eisenhower's Interstate highway program that launched this country to first place. LA was and is a microcosm of that. The make up of this city and its distances warrant good, well-connected highways for the timely transportation of goods and services, big, BIG part of the gears of the economy. I'd hate to eat spoiled mahi mahi.
Now, that is why my point of view is to maintain and keep what we have, and focus on public transportation. But no tolls roads, I don't want to pay the extra dollar at Tokyo Gardens Restaurant for my California Roll because it trickled down from the additional cost the delivery truck passed on to the restaurant for bringing the fish, seaweed, crab meat, rice, and cucumber.

I'm all for moving drivers to public transportation, let's make it practical first. Believe me we all want it, that's why we voted twice to fund such measures, It wouldn't have passed with just non-driver's votes, the vast majority of voters were drivers. Now they want to toll us?

Last edited by Kenni; June 21st, 2012 at 05:57 AM.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 03:31 PM   #5458
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Old June 28th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #5459
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http://la.curbed.com/archives/2012/0..._claremont.php

MTA seems to finally recognize that the continued extension of "pokey trolleys to nowhere" is costing them federal funds and has pushed needed projects back for years. Hopefully the first of many steps of this kind.

Too bad Crenshaw and Foothill can't be killed in their tracks. That kind of commitment to rational expenditure of money would carry weight in DC.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #5460
klamedia
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Mayor V has visited DC just about every other week for the past full year asking for a modified loan from Congress. It is much too simplistic to rationalize that it's a pokey trolley that is at the center of the issue here and if you believe that you are daftly missing the point.

Because it is an election year the House Republicans aren't passing anything that could be seen as an accomplishment of this administration. It's their ideological stance anyway but it being an election year it makes it even more unlikely. Mayor V being a staunch Democrat from a reliably blue state probably doesn't help much. We will see $$$ come to LA County from the Feds after one of two events comes to pass. The election of a Pres. Romney where House Repubs will almost certainly begin to pass large infrastructure bills that will be a boost to the economy and his presidency or a Democratic House that will pass a then second term Obama's long time push for an Infrastructure Bill.
And that's the truth, Ruth.
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