Where did Japanese come from? ~The Roots of the Japanese~

[Yellow Fever]

some of my favorite japanese actors with facial hairs


Tatsuya Nakadai


Toshiro Mifune


Ken Watanabe



And
Hiroyuki Sanada

[RyukyuRhymer]

Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888

I noticed that often times, Asians are stereotyped to have very little facial hair and read accounts of how Townshend Harris astonished the Japanese with his bushy beard. For the most part, this is true as Chinese, Koreans, SE Asians do have very little facial hair and those who can grow beards usually have very spotty whiskers here and there.

However, from empirical observation, it seems that very thick full facial hair is a very common trait among the Japanese. I'm talking heavy Russell Crowe type facial hair. From that, it seems very unlikely that the Japanese would have found anything unusual with Townshend Harris' beard.

Why is it that the Japanese have such a high occurrence of facial hair? Is it because they are the descendants of the Ainu/mixed East Asian Ainu heritage? What sets them apart from other East Asians in this respect?

As Nihonkitty stated, its probably the common Jomon descent.
From what we know so far on Jomon skeletal remains, they were short, stocky, generally wide jawed, and thought to be hairier than the Yayoi who came later.

The Ainu, who have the greatest percentage of Jomon ancestry, are often stereotyped to be hairy as well, growing full beards. The Japanese also have Jomon ancestry, but not to the extent the Ainu do. Ryukyuans (Okinawans) also are stereotyped to be hairy and stocky, likely due to the greater ancestry from Jomons in comparison to mainland Japanese.

[kominam]

Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888

I noticed that often times, Asians are stereotyped to have very little facial hair and read accounts of how Townshend Harris astonished the Japanese with his bushy beard. For the most part, this is true as Chinese, Koreans, SE Asians do have very little facial hair and those who can grow beards usually have very spotty whiskers here and there.

most Koreans up until the Chosun dynasty grew facial hair if not all although not as hairy as ainu.

[ukiyo]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11802565

Based on dental measurements:

(Kanto) Japanese: 25% Jomon, 75% Yayoi
Ryukyuans: 40% Jomon, 60% Yayoi
Ainu: 70% Jomon, 30% Yayoi

Thanks to ryukyurhymer

[ShibuyaBoy]

I only just recently read this thread. Actually, I have felt this connection before concerning certain Biblical similarities. There are some coincidences, but there are too many. I believe there is some relationship with the children of Israel. To me, the dressing in underwear and chanting sounds, that even Japanese don't know where it comes from is quite strikingly 'un-oriental'. Japanese believe that you can't enter into the "holy of holies" because you will then be cursed. The reason is actually because it is the resting place of God (according to the Old Testament) and priests (as representives of Man) are only allowed certain times of the year. If you were to enter the tabernacle casually, you will be cursed and die as a result. The Japanese tradition of lifting some sort of "tabernacle" is very unique and as far as I know the only other people who did this were the Jews in the Bible. Everything in this world could be coincidences in nature, but it seems to me that at least how that person in the last page presented the relationship, these sophisticated similarities demand a sophisticated answer likewise. Not a convenient, well they're all just coincidences arugment.

I think some of these Japanese practices really could be 'originally' Jewish in source. I could be wrong, but if it is true, it's fascinating. To be honest, Japanese are very clueless when it comes to Shinto. Don't how it started, don't even know the meaning of the words they shout during festivals. It's all very ambiguous. Concerning God or gods, the Japanese education system insists that we are direct descendants of some part of the Ape or chimpanze family and that we came from a hot pool of bacteria. But everything about Japan and how they conduct their life demands and points to some kind of God. If we really are just an algamation of minerals and atoms then ghost, rituals, traditions, and everything else that I can't think of at this very moment is bogus.
Not to sure where I am going with this, this is the where are the Japanese from? thread. I have to admit, I have read a little bit of the Bible of late. The interesting thing I just found out is that...well. everybody knows about the Adam and Eve story, right. THE interesting thing is the name of those two trees. They ate from the Tree of Both...'Good and Evil', not from the Tree of Life as God told them to. Good and evil were in the element of the same tree...Think about it.. it's very interesting. I think our culture has downplayed this story to something comical and superficial in meaning. But when you read the source, it is quite fascinating to the contrary.

[ukiyo]

Shinto is like amnisim and shares characteristics with other amanism religions in east and south east asia and even Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

[CoCoMilk]

Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer

Ryukyuans (Okinawans) also are stereotyped to be hairy and stocky, likely due to the greater ancestry from Jomons in comparison to mainland Japanese.

I can prove that

[jlee]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/wo...uage.html?_r=4

Finding on Dialects Casts New Light on the Origins of the Japanese People
By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: May 4, 2011

Researchers studying the various dialects of Japanese have concluded that all are descended from a founding language taken to the Japanese islands about 2,200 years ago. The finding sheds new light on the origin of the Japanese people, suggesting that their language is descended from that of the rice-growing farmers who arrived in Japan from the Korean Peninsula, and not from the hunter-gatherers who first inhabited the islands some 30,000 years ago.

The result provides support for a wider picture, controversial among linguists, that the distribution of many language families today reflects the spread of agriculture in the distant past when farming populations, carrying their languages with them, grew in numbers and expanded at the expense of hunter-gatherers. Under this theory, the Indo-European family of languages, which includes English, was spread by the first farmers who expanded into Europe from the Middle East some 8,000 years ago, largely replacing the existing population of hunter-gatherers.

In the case of Japan, archaeologists have found evidence for two waves of migrants, a hunter-gatherer people who created the Jomon culture and wet rice farmers who left remains known as the Yayoi culture.

The Jomon people arrived in Japan before the end of the last ice age, via land bridges that joined Japan to Asia’s mainland. They fended off invaders until about 2,400 years ago when the wet rice agriculture developed in southern China was adapted to Korea’s colder climate.

Several languages seem to have been spoken on the Korean Peninsula at this time, and that of the Yayoi people is unknown. The work of two researchers at the University of Tokyo, Sean Lee and Toshikazu Hasegawa, now suggests that the origin of Japonic — the language family that includes Japanese and Ryukyuan, spoken in the Ryukyu island chain south of Japan — coincides with the arrival of the Yayoi.

The finding, if confirmed, indicates that the Yayoi people took Japonic to Japan, but leaves unresolved the question of where in Asia the Yayoi culture or Japonic language originated before arriving in the Korean Peninsula.

Mr. Lee is a graduate student studying language and the mind, not a historical linguist. He has used a statistical tree-drawing method that other biologists have applied successfully to language origins, despite some linguists’ skepticism. The method, called Bayesian phylogeny, depends on having a computer draw a large number of possible trees and sampling them to find the most probable. Each language is represented by a 200-word vocabulary composed of words known to change very slowly.

If any fork in the tree can be linked to a historical event, all the other branch points can be dated. In this case, Mr. Lee knew dates for Old Japanese, Middle Japanese, and the split between the Kyoto and Tokyo dialects that began in 1603 A.D. when the capital was moved from Kyoto to Edo, the early name for Tokyo.

Mr. Lee reasoned that Japanese would have originated with the Jomon if the root of the tree turned out to be very ancient, but with the Yayoi culture if recent. The computer’s date of 2,182 years ago for the origin of the tree fits reasonably well with the archaeological dates for the Yayoi culture, he reported Tuesday in The Proceedings of the Royal Society.

John B. Whitman, an expert on Japanese linguistics who works at the National Institute for Japanese Language and Linguistics, in Tokyo, and at Cornell University, called the new finding “solid and reasonable,” although the date of the Yayoi culture, he said, has now been pushed back to around 3,000 years after a recalibration of radiocarbon dates. That would open an 800-year gap with Mr. Lee’s date but not necessarily change his conclusion.

The question of Japanese origins has had political consequences, with the link to the Yayoi culture having been invoked to justify the annexation of Korea and Manchuria before World War II. After the war, the link with the Jomon culture was emphasized.

Quentin Atkinson, an expert on language phylogeny at the University of Auckland, in New Zealand, said that Mr. Lee’s time scale was plausible but that if Japonic had spread through an agriculturally driven population expansion, his language tree should be much bushier at its root. Mr. Lee said that such earlier versions of Japanese might have disappeared when the island was politically unified about 1,000 years ago.

Genetic studies have suggested interbreeding between the Yayoi and Jomon people, with the Jomon contribution to modern Japanese being as much as 40 percent. Apparently the Yayoi language prevailed, along with the agricultural technology.

[SamuraiBlue]

One problem with this theory, the starting hypothesis of Jomon people being hunter-gathers are wrong since there is evidence that they were cultivating chestnuts tree through selective breeding to bear better yield in orchards and had trade with people 300Km apart for obsidian. This means there was some kind of common oral language as a means of communication for trade to take place.
There are also some Jomon period megalith monuments that could not have been erected without a large group of people focused on a single goal which again needs a form of communication between one another.
Granted a lot of words could have been adopted by the Yayoi people during their migration but the language could not have been solely imported by the Yayoi people.

[castermaild55]

Originally Posted by jlee

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/wo...uage.html?_r=4

Bayesian phylogenetic analysis supports an agricultural origin of Japonic languages
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...b-bee972d1f9a3


that is a Just graduation　thesis
that is not a new..
http://toriton.blog2.fc2.com/blog-entry-1125.html
what a miserable resarch
even I can do like them
sorry my poor english

the korean and the Japanese are brother of same mother and different Fahter

the Japanese by method of Mitochondrial DNA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA
the korean and the Japanese are very simillar...( that is,matrilineal. mother lineage)
( Korean is not south korean. I mean korean who is living southern part of south korea like Pusan or kaya)
korean is more similar with ainu than the Japanese

Y Chromosome father lineage(paternal line)

korean and the Japanese are quite different because of D(Yap+)
most okinawan and Ainu have D(Yap+)


Why is it so similar by the method of mitochondria, and is it very different by the method of the chromosome?
only women came to Japan as Yayoi? I dont think so
As for the movement in the group, men was more numerous .

How about Latin America?
How about example of the Pacific Ocean islands?
How about India?

After the 16th century, present Latin American nations were conquered by Spain and Portugal. It is chiefly men that came.
As a result, there are a lot of Y chromosomes of the Caucasian lineage in Latin American nations.
However,The Caucasian origin is few by mitochondria method
most of type is native ppl'

so are polynasia, Guam....
Aryan (one race of Caucasian) invaded India from Central Asia 3000 years or more ago, and the upper layer hierarchy was formed for India.
As a result, there are many patrilineal more than the matrilineal...

accoding to descendant Genghis Khan Research
the Y chromosome goes over the cultural barrier by the occupation of the short term of around 100 and does not spread..
The ruler should be in the top in the society until race's uniting for long long time.

Top management in the ancient society of which the Jomon people fused with Yayoi shows that the Jomon was farther more than Yayoi.
In short, the Jomon people conquered the people village of Yayoi where it had emigrated with high probability
Small number of people comparatively people who made the Jomon people an ancestor were in top management in the society, and people of a lot of yayoi were ruled.
The pattern excluding this is impossible.

so is language.
The mark of an ancient Korean language is not seen at all in Japan.

word of same meaning and same sound..
i think the connection from the relation of the word to which ancient times fossilize is clarified.

The language is deeply related to race's identity.
The origin of the word can be traced to a past history and the life of the race in all the languages.
We can speculatewe the other relatives from what the past word was spoken.

BTW
it is said Japanese lanuguage is an orphan of language.
It is possible to divide into some groups by tracing the system of the language. It tells the relation between the race and the other race.

Most languages of Europe, Persian languages, Hindis, and Sanskrit words are classified into Indo-European language.
A Mongolian language, Turkish, and the Uighur language can be classified into
Altai language.
They are words spoken around Altay Mountains in Central Asia.
The Hebrew, Aramaic, and the Arabia language belong to the Semitic family of languages.
The race who speaks these is recorded as a descendant of Shem.

How about Japanese language?
That is, the language of a similar character is not found in another.

Criteria related to relative of language
According to Alfred L. Kroeber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_L._Kroeber
some words with same meaning and sound exist in the words which belong to another language.
however this number is about 5 words
therefore,it is necessary to find many words not by chance in order to judge two languages are related.

How many is it needed?

syllable system
The language has always developed as an information switching system.
The system doesn't usually admit a coincidence that cannot be explained.

There is one special method to search for the relative relation in both races'
ancient times. that is ,syllable .

A minimum unit of the voice is called a syllable. For instance, a word of "ko-to-ba" in Japanese are three syllables .
it can say "word' in English is one syllable.
It becomes a word and sentences with meaning only after the syllable ties.

probability where word of two syllables of the same meaning arises by chance
in the same pronunciation.
in English, the kinds of the syllable are 3000 because it differs according to the idiom.
There are 112 kinds of Japanese slightly.

For instance, it is assumed 112 that the kind of the syllable of space alien's
language is the same as Japanese.
The probability that the word of two syllables that consists of the same syllable and the same meaning arises is about 1/10,000.
The probability by three syllables becomes 1/100,000.
Therefore, there is no probability to be born for the word of the same meaning and the same syllable by chance if there are neither a cultural influence nor a good relation.
In other words, it can be say that there is some, cultural exchanges or kinships between both languages and races if they are found between two languages.

If it is several word, it is recognized as a chance result.
How if it is 500?
( I dont know Onyomi words are includedin them? if so, story is different)

if we see the ppl of Indo-European family, we can guess their life style in ancient from one of their ruins.


The grammar looks like in the relation to Korean.
However, korean word is quite different from Japanese though ancient korean is unknown.



Japan's Hidden History by Jon and Alan Covell.
at first, they are not archeologists at all.
they are art historian..
at least, they are nameless as archeologists because it does not hit him in google at all in english world.

http://www.geocities.jp/ku_da_ra/ETC/cobel20050715.pdf
I read his article.
I knew how crazy he was it would be the best selling in korea ..



Castor's insistence that Korea had once been "conquered" by Wa is itself an excuse to explain why there are so many archaeological artifacts in Japan which have origins from Korea,
there is no evidence at all.
why are there so many Japanses castles,Waeseong in korea?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waeseong
these are also korean origin?


Japanese ancient language and ancient heblew have same sound and same meanig...
why???

toru ;to take
kaku; to write
sumu; to live
horobu; ruin
harau; exorcies

agam(agumu)）to get tired of (doing)
aka(aki)）weariness
akar(akeru) to leave,to empty
anta(anata) you
avar(owari) finish
avna,Aramaic (iwane).stone
barer(bareru)to be exposed
haer(haeru)to shine
hakar(hakaru)to measure ,to survey
hake(kaku)to strike
hake(hikae)to wait
haya,Aramaic(hayai) fast
hazaza(hazusu)to unfasten to remove
havia(hebi) snake
horer(horeru, horu)to excavate
kama(kome) rice.grain
karas,syria(karasu) crow
kava(kawa)river,to transport the water
kor,(kori,koru) ice, cold
kubita,syria(kabuto) hat, helmet (of armor)
mavar(mawaru)to turn. pathway,detour
mits(mitsu)nectar ,honey
mono,Aramaic (mono) thing.
motsa(matsu)exit ,end
nagav(nuguu)to wipe
nakamu(nikumu) hate ,revenge
nakar(nokeru)to repel
nasa (nasu 生す)to give birth
nase(nasu) to try
nigar(nagare)stream
sa'ar,syria(suru) to do
............
.. there are so many... if you want, i can write more than 100 kunyomi


How about english
"name" in japanese is namae
boya-boy
Darui-dull
liru-kill
hoeru-howl
tou-tower
etc
to write, to take, etc in both Japanese and ancient hebrew(also in Aramaic) are same sound and same meaning.

[Kenwen]

That can only proves one thing, that Japan used to rule Korea in the ancient time,if the reversed happend, there would be korean father lineage found on Japan. During Tang dynasty,there was a japanese colony on the korean penisular, it was defeated by Tang silla unitied army,maybe that has something to do with the DNA thing. But on the other hand, I think I would be correct to say Yaoyi were the people from mainland that traveled through Korean penisular, so is really hard to say.

[castermaild55]

Originally Posted by Kenwen

That can only proves one thing, that Japan used to rule Korea in the ancient time,if the reversed happend, there would be korean father lineage found on Japan. During Tang dynasty,there was a japanese colony on the korean penisular, it was defeated by Tang silla unitied army,maybe that has something to do with the DNA thing. But on the other hand, I think I would be correct to say Yaoyi were the people from mainland that traveled through Korean penisular, so is really hard to say.

the end of Jomon era's population was only 80,000
If a lot of people come at a time from the direction of chinese continent, d2 of Japan must be fewer. and there must exsist similar words.
only limited people might come to Japan each year for more than thousands years. I think there were less than 100 ppls because of sea
If it is this, the influence on the gene　and language are also a little .And, they were not dominant as ｒule class.

[SamuraiBlue]

Originally Posted by castermaild55

the end of Jomon era's population was only 80,000
If a lot of people come at a time from the direction of chinese continent, d2 of Japan must be fewer. and there must exsist similar words.
only limited people might come to Japan each year for more than thousands years. I think there were less than 100 ppls because of sea
If it is this, the influence on the gene　and language are also a little .And, they were not dominant as ｒule class.

There is always the possibility that Xu Fu changed the scene.

[Satoori]

Japanese came from Korea
Kana came from Korea
Sushi came from Korea too
Karate is Korean
Ninja's came from Korea first
the Kimono was originally Korean..
just like most things in China are Korean.


i kid

[ukiyo]

Japanese people's freckles may be governed by ancient genes

A cosmetic company is investigating whether DNA from ancient peoples may be influencing modern Japanese people's propensity to get freckles and age spots.

Tomonori Motokawa, chief researcher of Pola Orbis Holdings Inc., is working with the National Museum of Nature and Science to investigate why there appear to be two distinct groupings in the Japanese population of MC1R protein genes in melanin-producing cells. One of the groupings appears to be associated with age spots.

His hypothesis is that the Jomon Pottery Culture, an ancient culture known to have been present on the Japanese archipelago from about 15,000 years ago, and the Yayoi Pottery Culture, which appeared in the third to fourth century B.C., are the sources of the different genes.

The Yayoi culture is thought to have been brought to Japan by groups of people migrating from the Korean Peninsula. Motokawa, 37, believes Jomon peoples may have been the source of the gene group with a higher tendency to freckles, while the migrations associated with the Yayoi culture may have brought genes with a lower propensity.

More: http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_...J2011111615231

I have a little bit of freckles

[RyukyuRhymer]

http://www.asahi.com/culture/news_cu...006280113.html

港川人、縄文人と似ず　顔立ち復元、独自の集団か

沖縄で見つかった旧石器時代の人骨「港川人」の再調査を進めている国立科学博物館（科博）が、顔立ちの復元図＝写真上、科博提供＝を作り直した。縄文人の祖先とされてきた従来のイメージ＝写真下＝から大きく変わり、オーストラリアの先住民といった雰囲気だ。

　港川人は１９６７～７６年に沖縄本島南端の石切り場で見つかった。５～９体分の人骨と考えられ、出土地層は約２万年前と推定されている。全身の骨格と顔面が残っている旧石器時代の人骨は、日本ではその後も発見はない。

　顔の彫りが深く、手足が長いといった港川人の特徴が、縄文人によく似ていることから、縄文人の祖先は南から渡ってきたとの考えの大きな根拠となってきた。その縄文人に大陸から渡ってきた弥生人が融合して日本人が形成されたと考えられてきた。科博はそうした日本人形成論の再検討に取り組んでおり、その一環として港川人を再調査してきた。

　ＣＴなど最新の技術で調べると、発見当初の復元にゆがみが見つかった。下あごが本来はほっそりとしており、そのゆがみを取り除くと、横に広い縄文人の顔立ちと相当に違っている。現在の人類ならば、オーストラリア先住民やニューギニアの集団に近い。

　縄文時代の人骨は、列島の北から南まで顔立ちや骨格が似ていることから、縄文人は均質な存在と考えられてきた。だが、縄文人の遺伝子を分析した結果、シベリアなど北回りの集団、朝鮮半島経由の集団など多様なルーツのあることが見えてきた。

　新たな復元図は、そうした研究を総合したものだ。科博の海部陽介研究主幹は「港川人は本土の縄文人とは異なる集団だったようだ。港川人は５万～１万年前の東南アジアやオーストラリアに広く分布していた集団から由来した可能性が高い」と語った。その後に、農耕文化を持った人たちが東南アジアに広がり、港川人のような集団はオーストラリアなどに限定されたと考えることができそうだ。（渡辺延志）

[Bentag]

Can you give us a summary in English?

[SuperRabbit]

Emperor Akihito himself stated that he has some Korean ancestors from the kingdom of Baekje, which worked together with Yamato Japan to fight against China, Goguryeo, and Shilla. Baekje was also geographically closer to Japan; thus, Korean influence is more probable.
in addition, when Imperialist Japan annexed Korea, why did they burn so many Korean historical records? Perhaps there were more ties between the 2 nations than we think. This MO hardly existed in the parts of SE Asia that they conquered.

[castermaild55]

Originally Posted by SuperRabbit

Emperor Akihito himself stated that he has some Korean ancestors from the kingdom of Baekje, which worked together with Yamato Japan to fight against China, Goguryeo, and Shilla. Baekje was also geographically closer to Japan; thus, Korean influence is more probable.
in addition, when Imperialist Japan annexed Korea, why did they burn so many Korean historical records? Perhaps there were more ties between the 2 nations than we think. This MO hardly existed in the parts of SE Asia that they conquered.

akihito said it is said emperor Kanmu's wife was something connection from Baekje


her name was Takano(kept woman）
in Heian era, kanmu said " kudara konikishi etc are my maternal relative because of Takano.
however ,takano was a 10th generations of decendant from Baekje(as a Japanese and mixed) in bad luck

蓋鹵王 (百済を高句麗の侵略から日本に守ってもらう為に日本に娘と弟を人質を送る)
池津媛 (蓋鹵王の娘。日本への人質｡雄略天皇との付き合いを拒否して他の男に付いた為火あぶり死刑)
軍君 (池津媛の変わりに送られた百済の蓋鹵王の弟)
武寧王 (軍君が人質として日本に来た時生まれた第25代百済王｡日本の島で生まれたのでSHIMA王と 呼ばれる)
純陀太子 在日１世　（百済武寧王の子純陀太子。日本に人質として送られる）
斯我君 在日２世　(百済王族の人質で純陀太子の子｡日本に定住)
法師君 在日３世　(百済王族の人質子孫で斯我君の子)
雄蘇利紀君 在日４世　(百済王族の人質子孫で法師君の子)
和史宇奈羅 在日５世　（和氏に改名して日本に帰化。日本人となりFUHITOへ地位を下げる）
和史粟勝 在日６世　(日本人)
和史浄足 在日７世　(日本人)
和史武助 在日８世　(日本人)
和史乙継 在日９世（日本人下級役人。娘を天皇家に嫁がせてTAKANOの姓を貰う）
高野新笠 在日１０世（日本人。733年、49代天皇光仁天皇の妾となるが、出身身分が低い為、死後まで皇后には成れなかった)

772年光仁天皇の本妻井上内親王と、その子他戸親王が謀反で失脚した為、後に高野新笠の子が天皇となる。 これが第50代天皇・桓武天皇。

last year ,a documment was discovered in China
shilla was vassal state of WA


http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?...aid=0005224764

[castermaild55]

it was discoverd in Kyoto......

http://translate.google.co.jp/transl...%3Dy%26g%3Dsoc

there was something coming and going...?