Gujarat Discussions Thread

[CivilEngineer079]

thanks aks_sky

[gandhi.rushabh1992]

Originally Posted by CivilEngineer079

x-posting from sabarmati riverfront thread.


Our idea for comparing S.G Highway to E11 is just to show them that being one of the important financial center, Ahmedabad needs skyscrapers and S.G Highway is a perfect location for that because there is no other road in Ahmedabad satisfying bldg bye-laws and other requirements needed for skyscrapers. One another benefit is that today there are many open lands on the highway so these lands can be used easily for construction and govt. can also plan for surrounding open lands accordingly.

But I think that Govt. will not allow skyscrapers on S.G Highway because this will inversely effects GIFT. So max. upto 70m will be permitted.

So let us compare the two highways.

Dubai's E 11 : Approx 192 feet wide



S.G. Road : Approx 166 feet wide



So as we see there is not much difference between the two roads. The ideal arrangement would be to have 4 lanes on each side (8x12=96 ft) and 2 service lanes on each side (4x12=48 ft). Total 144 ft. That leaves 22 ft for pavements and greenery.

Metro is proposed in phase 2 till GNGR.

Also since it is being converted into a freeway, ideally there should be entry and exit ramps at every flyover starting from Sarkhej, Isckon, Judges Bungalows, Sola and Gota flyovers. Thus these ramps will feed traffic to the freeway. They should plan traffic for not only GNGR but also for GIFT and the knowledge city.

Of course, pedestrian overbridges should be built at equal intervals.

[Cosmicbliss]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

And if we compare this data with the population of the states in 2001 and 2011...



Except Maha, where Guj's figures should have been more than 50%, as its pop is more than 50% of Maha (though keeping in mind that Mumbai, which contributes a huge chunk to the state's GSDP, is more or less controlled by Gujaratis), Guj is ahead of all other states when judged by GSDP by population

The most obvious e.g. is UP, which has more than 3 times more people than Guj, even then Guj's GSDP is almost level with UP

Which means, after max 5 years, Guj will climb above UP, AP and TN to be ranked 2nd by GSDP while it is ranked 10th by population.

Take that, Mr Vaghela... , what were you saying ??

Mumbai so far as I know, contributes 25 % of MH's economy which is big, but not huge by any means.

[gandhi.rushabh1992]

Well, for a state with 12 crore people, one city contributing 25% is not what you call normal. And it is'nt as if MH does'nt have other cities... Pune, Nagpur, Aurangabad, Solapur.....

[tryindiffdrugsngirls]

Development in Gujarat according to me seems inclusive of every one and evenly spread out because of the ports. In Mah on one hand you have Mumbai best city in India on other hand they have Vidharbha. Very uneven if you think about it. And I believe in future majority of Gujarat's population will start living along the coast because of ports and job creation near ports.

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

Mumbai so far as I know, contributes 25 % of MH's economy which is big, but not huge by any means.

If that were true, and we take 21m as a Bombay population figure, that would leave rest of Maharastra GDP at Rs 581265 and population at 91m

Meaning at 10/11 Gujarat had 63% of Maharastra GDP but with 66% of the population. So we are approaching the point where any Gujarat growth above the rate of Maharashtra will be cutting into this "Bombay component", which as Rushabh says, most Gujaratis feel a significant sense of ownership of anyway.

It is def quite strange that since Surats 18th century decline in the face of East India Cos monopoly of trade, the two cities that have best represented the success of Gujarati entrepreneurship have ended up outside the borders of Gujarat, ie: Bombay and Karachi.

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by aks_sky

x-posting from sabarmati riverfront thread. I want to know what you guys think is going to happen about the projects that CE79 listed below.



Kudos to CE079

Re fountain bridge, the exact same idea seems to be on the cards for the replacement of Hope Bridge in Surat. link

બાજુમાં ૩.૫ મીટર પહોળો વોક-વે હશે. બંને બાજુએ હોપપુલ જેવા જ ગર્ડરની ડિઝાઇનથી કવર કરાશે. આ બ્રિજમાં રિવરસાઈડ ઉપર અત્યાધુનિક ફાઉન્ટેઈન પણ હશે. એટલે, ચાઈનામાં નેનિંગ શહેરમાં બનાવાયેલા બ્રિજની જેમ રાત્રિના સમયે સુરતને પ્રાચીન અને અવૉચીન સુરતનું ‘ફ્યુઝન’ જોવા મળશે.

[gandhi.rushabh1992]

Originally Posted by GJ10

If that were true, and we take 21m as a Bombay population figure, that would leave rest of Maharastra GDP at Rs 581265 and population at 91m

Meaning at 10/11 Gujarat had 63% of Maharastra GDP but with 66% of the population. So we are approaching the point where any Gujarat growth above the rate of Maharashtra will be cutting into this "Bombay component", which as Rushabh says, most Gujaratis feel a significant sense of ownership of anyway.

It is def quite strange that since Surats 18th century decline in the face of East India Cos monopoly of trade, the two cities that have best represented the success of Gujarati entrepreneurship have ended up outside the borders of Gujarat, ie: Bombay and Karachi.

One article I found in Topix, not sure what source he had, but nevertheless, an interesting read :

Demographics of Mumbai:

48% Marathis
21% North Indians (mainly UPiets and Bihari Bhayyas)
18% Gujjus
10% Other
3% South Indians

Of these approximately 50% live in SLUMS!

You can rule out Gujjus and South Indians from being any fraction of the slum population in Mumbai by default because ALL of them are white collar workers in Mumbai. Now that leaves 79% of Population of Mumbai for North Indians, Marathis, and Others.

Marathis... More than 3/4 of them live in slums(that sounds quite questionable...). That leaves 12% of them in either white collar jobs, middle class jobs or Taxi/truck driver jobs. About half of the remaining 12% of Marathis drive Taxis, rickshaws, or Trucks. That leaves 6% of them in either Middle class or White Collar jobs. In conclusion 3% of Marathis are White Collar workers.

North Indians... more than 3/4 of them also account for Mumbai's slum (these are mostly Bihari and UP bhayyas), leaving 7% in white collar jobs and Middle class. About half of these are white collars and half middle class. So 3.5 white collar workers from North India.

Others... these also account for Mumbai's slum. About 90% of them end up in slums leaving 1% in White Collar work force.

Results:

Gujaratis: 18% White Collar workers
North Indians:3.5% White Collar workers
Tamils: 3% White Collar Workers
Marathis: 3% White Collar workers
Others: 1% white collar workers

In conclusion, Gujaratis make up 63% of Mumbai's White Collar work force.
----------------------------------------
I know most of it is nonsense... just felt like posting.

[GJ10]

The original stats dont look right, and if they are, they can only be based on the expanded MMR region. Am certain that for the Island city, the demographics must be quite different. Far less Marathis and def more South Indians, possibly more Gujaratis.

There are def Gujarati slum pockets though, I saw a doc where a part of a big slum, (maybe even Dharavi) is a Kathiawadi Kumbharwada.

But def if you look at the super-rich only or the "posh" areas, you will find a dominance of the traditional business communities of Gujaratis, Parsis, Marwaris and Sindhis.

In terms of business ownership and asset holding, again you would probably see these same communities dominate.

[Cosmicbliss]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

Well, for a state with 12 crore people, one city contributing 25% is not what you call normal. And it is'nt as if MH does'nt have other cities... Pune, Nagpur, Aurangabad, Solapur.....

But again, that city has 20 % of the states population. So 20-22 % of the population contributing 25 % of the State's economy isn't that bad. As far as other cities are concerned, among the non-metros, Pune is one of the biggest nationwide. It is bigger than Surat (Gujarat), Mysore (KA), Vizag (AP), Coimbatore (TN) or Jodhpur (RJ). How many states have a Tier II city bigger than Pune? Same goes for Nagpur which has 20 lakh or more people and is Tier III city, the equivalent city in KA is probably Mangalore but Mangalore has less than 10 lakh people. So, as far as cities go, given how huge Mumbai's population is, the imbalance isn't anywhere near as severe as it sounds. In KA, AP or TN or WB, the capital city is as dominant as MH or maybe more and all these states have comparable state populations. The reason 25 % will also be the case is because Mumbai-Thane itself has far far more people than other major city in India (barring Delhi). The only way 25 % can drop is if other cities grow dramatically richer than Mumbai.

[aks_sky]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

So let us compare the two highways.

Dubai's E 11 : Approx 192 feet wide


So as we see there is not much difference between the two roads. The ideal arrangement would be to have 4 lanes on each side (8x12=96 ft) and 2 service lanes on each side (4x12=48 ft). Total 144 ft. That leaves 22 ft for pavements and greenery.

Metro is proposed in phase 2 till GNGR.

Also since it is being converted into a freeway, ideally there should be entry and exit ramps at every flyover starting from Sarkhej, Isckon, Judges Bungalows, Sola and Gota flyovers. Thus these ramps will feed traffic to the freeway. They should plan traffic for not only GNGR but also for GIFT and the knowledge city.

Of course, pedestrian overbridges should be built at equal intervals.

But then we need to have something different. Agreed that SG highway would make a great place for skyscrapers but I think they need to develop something like that along the riverfront first.

[gandhi.rushabh1992]

Yes, if you put it that way, then Mumbai's contribution, contrary to its status, is'nt quite that big. On the other hand, MH's smaller cities contribute generously to the state's GDP, making it a case of all round development, rather like Gujarat.

For instance, it would be foolish to say that AMD is the most dominant region in GUJ, like Kolkata is for WB, Bangaluru for KA, Chennai for TN, Hyd for AP etc. I think the non availability of more than one large cities in these states is limiting their growth.

Gujarat may not have a metro-sized city, but it has four large to moderate cities and spread out evenly across the state. AMD is almost 7 million, Surat 5.5 million, Vadodara 2 million and Rajkot 1.5 million. So the combined population of the top 4 in GUJ is 16 million.

Compare it with
TN : 13.5 million(Chennai-9 million)
AP : 12 million(HYD-8 million)
KA : 11 million(Only Bangaluru with 8.5 million in the million-plus list)
WB : 18 million(15 million from Kolkata)

[Cosmicbliss]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

Yes, if you put it that way, then Mumbai's contribution, contrary to its status, is'nt quite that big. On the other hand, MH's smaller cities contribute generously to the state's GDP, making it a case of all round development, rather like Gujarat.

For instance, it would be foolish to say that AMD is the most dominant region in GUJ, like Kolkata is for WB, Bangaluru for KA, Chennai for TN, Hyd for AP etc. I think the non availability of more than one large cities in these states is limiting their growth.

Gujarat may not have a metro-sized city, but it has four large to moderate cities and spread out evenly across the state. AMD is almost 7 million, Surat 5.5 million, Vadodara 2 million and Rajkot 1.5 million. So the combined population of the top 4 in GUJ is 16 million.

Compare it with
TN : 13.5 million(Chennai-9 million)
AP : 12 million(HYD-8 million)
KA : 11 million(Only Bangaluru with 8.5 million in the million-plus list)
WB : 18 million(15 million from Kolkata)

Maharashtra, just for the record:

Mumbai-17 million
Pune+PCMC-5-6 million (Pimpri Chinchwad Municipal Corporation)
Nagpur-2-3 million
Nashik 1-1.5 million
So total= between 25 and 28 million, of which Mumbai, contributes about 60 %. However if you exclude Thane that may fall to about half or even less. My bets are on Nashik in MH and Rajkot in Gujarat. Guess these cities are likely to be the growthspots in future.

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

As far as other cities are concerned, among the non-metros, Pune is one of the biggest nationwide. It is bigger than Surat (Gujarat), Mysore (KA), Vizag (AP), Coimbatore (TN) or Jodhpur (RJ). How many states have a Tier II city bigger than Pune?

Interestingly the core population of Surat is actually higher than the core population of Pune. Pune has a slight overall advantage due to the outlying areas, Hinjewadi and Pimpri-Chinchawad.

Acc to 2011 census

3,115,431 Pune (M.Corp) link
1,729,359 Pimpri-Chinchawad (M.Corp) link
205,178 Others
------------------
5,049,968 Pune UA link

4,462,002 Surat (M.Corp) link
123,365 Others
--------------
4,585,367 Surat UA link

With Surat being Indias 3rd largest coastal city, I think there is an obvious economic advantage compared to Pune for the future. Population growth is likely to reflect this.

[gandhi.rushabh1992]

Pune will have to focus on the IT and Manufacturing industries. Surat on the other hand is sitting on a gold mine. With Kalpasar dam, SEZ's, PCPIR's and SIR's coming around it and with its geographical gift, it is set to rise above both Pune and Ahmedabad. Though Ahmedabad has GIFT, Dholera and Sanand to fall back onto.

[shivanand.]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

Pune will have to focus on the IT and Manufacturing industries. Surat on the other hand is sitting on a gold mine. With Kalpasar dam, SEZ's, PCPIR's and SIR's coming around it and with its geographical gift, it is set to rise above both Pune and Ahmedabad. Though Ahmedabad has GIFT, Dholera and Sanand to fall back onto.

yeah..nice observation but how Kalpasar dam could help surat b'coz i think it will connect Dahej and Bhavanagar...

[meetmus2fa]

What is Kalpasar dam project....I completely missed it....any brief info on it

[shivanand.]

It is one of the most exiting project of the state...

November 19th, 2010, 11:59 AM #26
SSCaddict
Sagar



Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 5,210
Name Of The Project:- Kalpasar Project(Gujarat)

Cost Of The Project:-Rs 55,000 cr / $13 billion

Time Duration:- 2012-2020

Current Status:-The Gujarat Govt. has set up a department for the project and has commissioned a bathymetric and geotechnical study of the entire oceanic space in order to ascertain its different layers, including fault-lines.

Key Facts:-

* It will have a vast fresh water reservoir with gross storage of 16,791 million cubic metres of water.

* 64.16 km long and 35 KM wide dam across the Gulf of Khambhat connecting Ghogha in Bhavnagar with Hansot in Bharuch District, reducing the distance between the two by 225 km.

* It will have tidal power generation house with an installed capacity of 5,880 MW.

*As many as 24 tidal observatories are proposed to be set up along the entire Gulf to help carry out the survey.
__________________

http://www.kalpasar.gujarat.gov.in/mainpage.htm

[GJ10]

Originally Posted by gandhi.rushabh1992

Pune will have to focus on the IT and Manufacturing industries. Surat on the other hand is sitting on a gold mine. With Kalpasar dam, SEZ's, PCPIR's and SIR's coming around it and with its geographical gift, it is set to rise above both Pune and Ahmedabad. Though Ahmedabad has GIFT, Dholera and Sanand to fall back onto.

I honestly dont think any individual Gujarati city will ever go past the 10m population mark (and I really dont think thats a bad thing!)

Apart from GIFT and a few big projects at Hazira, the most noticeable thing about the major investments/projects that are coming up in Gujarat is that they are not actually all that close to major cities.

Special Investment Regions that are due to come up will be stand-alone areas. There will def be new urban/industrial corridors and clusters that form, but generally these seem to be in historically less populated and less advanced areas of the state such as Dholera, Sanand, Halol, Becharaji etc.

Not particularly glamourous or hi-tech, but in my opinion, the most interesting area to watch the progress of in Gujarat according to me will be Bharuch-Dahej-Ankleshwar which I will really gain a lot of prominence in the next decade.

If the Central Govts DMIC project ever goes through, then it will be a massive boost for Gujarat, especially the Ports at Dahej and Hazira.

[akku13]

Originally Posted by GJ10

I honestly dont think any individual Gujarati city will ever go past the 10m population mark (and I really dont think thats a bad thing!)

Apart from GIFT and a few big projects at Hazira, the most noticeable thing about the major investments/projects that are coming up in Gujarat is that they are not actually all that close to major cities.

Special Investment Regions that are due to come up will be stand-alone areas. There will def be new urban/industrial corridors and clusters that form, but generally these seem to be in historically less populated and less advanced areas of the state such as Dholera, Sanand, Halol, Becharaji etc.

Not particularly glamourous or hi-tech, but in my opinion, the most interesting area to watch the progress of in Gujarat according to me will be Bharuch-Dahej-Ankleshwar which I will really gain a lot of prominence in the next decade.

If the Central Govts DMIC project ever goes through, then it will be a massive boost for Gujarat, especially the Ports at Dahej and Hazira.

no other city in Gujarat will pass Ahmedabad in terms of development and growth.. Ahmedabad is nearly merged with Gandhinagar and in 3-4 years they will be twin cites with gift city, sanand is already having 4 car plant 1 working 3 under construction and dholera SEZ .. Ahmedabad polpulation is already 65 lakh with and incresing at rapid pace.. will touch close to 1 crore by 2021.. if Gift is complted ans it industry moves here. and sanand is just 10 kms from ahmedabad city limits.. and soon will be merged but as satellite township..