Todays United States Navy

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by LondonFox

Lolol.

Popeye is absolutely correct; this is bovine excrement of the highest order, and I first heard it probably the first week I went to sea in 1979. Like Popeye, it was Enterprise that was the victim of this canard. As a tactical communicator of no mean experience I can tell you that there are so many things wrong with the execution of radio-telephone communications referenced as being an "actual transcript" that I don't know where to begin. Never mind the presence, or lack of same implied, of GPS which would obviate such a situation, "divert" is a word not found in the lexicon of navigational orders such as this. The Canadian lighthouse would identify itself as exactly that, a la "Vessel bearing 125 relative my position, this Pt. Bumfuck Light. You are standing into danger. Alter your course to zero one five true to avoid Bumfuck Shoals, over!" Good God, the absence of the word "over" from the end of every response, to and from the parties in question are enough to prove the lie; but if you don't believe me, here you go.

[bd popeye]

The story posted states that it was the Lincoln that was nearing a lighthouse in Newfoundland in 1995....In 1995 the Lincoln was deployed to the Western Pacific and Persian Gulf..fact..

http://www.gonavy.jp/CV-CVN72f.html

"Vessel bearing 125 relative my position, this Pt. Bumfuck Light.

I thought there was only a bumfu*k in Egypt!..

[blahblahv2]

Seen the same but with:-

USN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
RN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
ULCC and an Oil Rig

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by blahblahv2

Seen the same but with:-

USN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
RN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
ULCC and an Oil Rig

Actually, oil rigs do occasionally cause problems if one isn't careful, especially if there are a ton of them like in the Gulf of Mexico or Persian Gulf. Modern navigation radars sort of eliminate the problem, but back when I was conning ships, you had an AN/SPS-10 radar with no computerized maneuvering plot application and so forth, so if one wasn't careful, one could run up fairly close to an oil rig before realizing that the relative motion was all of your doing. GPS has again removed a lot of that concern because it allows you to plot you against them on a nav chart, and know with certainty that it isn't a ship moving at slow speed.

[skit_uk]

Originally Posted by desertswo

Good God, the absence of the word "over" from the end of every response, to and from the parties in question are enough to prove the lie; but if you don't believe me, here you go.

You use the word "over" in nautical coms?

Interesting as we don't use that in aviation at all and yet much in aviation is descended from the navy, I wonder why that changed.

I would also have to agree that is one of those urban myths, radio coms always has each party identifying their call sign at first transmission. It's not uncommon for non standard radio language to be used though.

[SokoX]

Originally Posted by desertswo

Popeye is absolutely correct; this is bovine excrement of the highest order, and I first heard it probably the first week I went to sea in 1979. Like Popeye, it was Enterprise that was the victim of this canard. As a tactical communicator of no mean experience I can tell you that there are so many things wrong with the execution of radio-telephone communications referenced as being an "actual transcript" that I don't know where to begin. Never mind the presence, or lack of same implied, of GPS which would obviate such a situation, "divert" is a word not found in the lexicon of navigational orders such as this. The Canadian lighthouse would identify itself as exactly that, a la "Vessel bearing 125 relative my position, this Pt. Bumfuck Light. You are standing into danger. Alter your course to zero one five true to avoid Bumfuck Shoals, over!" Good God, the absence of the word "over" from the end of every response, to and from the parties in question are enough to prove the lie; but if you don't believe me, here you go.

I still don't believe it's not true and above all certainly it's not any kind of the legend. It happened for real some time back then in 1970's.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by SokoX

I still don't believe it's not true and above all certainly it's not any kind of the legend. It happened for real some time back then in 1970's.

No. It didn't. You simply want it to have happened, for whatever reasons you hold in your mind. That story, or versions of it pre-date WWII.

Have horrible things happened with ships colliding with each other or running aground? Sure; I was even a party to one in 1980 when my ship collided with a freighter out of Bangladesh, That moron had his helm in iron mike and was showing red over red just so everyone would stay out of his way while he literally went to sleep. Meanwhile, here comes a carrier battle group unrepping, which gave us the right of way. He didn't answer any attempts to reach him via Channel 16. We were made up on our starboard side taking on fuel, and taking stores and ammo via helo from the ammo ship and "attack food ship" off our port side. All dressed up and no place to go, and that son of a bitch just kept on coming. No one was hurt, and the damage from what became a glancing blow was limited to a sixty foot gash in our side well above the waterline, our number four elevator out of commission, and the nutating members of our port side SPG-55B fire control radar for our Terrier missile battery laying on the other guy's deck. Heads rolled, as they should have, but it just shows you the level of unprofessional conduct in the international theater of civilian navigation.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by skit_uk

You use the word "over" in nautical coms?

Interesting as we don't use that in aviation at all and yet much in aviation is descended from the navy, I wonder why that changed.

I would also have to agree that is one of those urban myths, radio coms always has each party identifying their call sign at first transmission. It's not uncommon for non standard radio language to be used though.

Yup, and they are used by us talking to airplanes as well. When we give an aircraft an order, we make sure they understand the critical nature of it. Most airliine pilots know that if we are talking to them, it's for a very good reason, and they are only too happy to listen and take the time to respond properly. Also, when talking to our own aircraft, whether Navy, Marine Corps, or Air Force; they happily use the rules of radio-telepone comms because once again, we aren't fooling around and they know that failure to understand where they stand in the greater scheme of things can cost lives; most especially their own. "Over" and "Out" are used all the time but never together unlike one sees on television. "Over" means one expects a response, while "out" means the conversation is done, period.

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by blahblahv2

Seen the same but with:-

USN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
RN Aircraft Carrier & Irish Lighthouse
ULCC and an Oil Rig

The version I heard was the Enterprise Vs a Scottish light house in the 60's on one of it's many North Atlantic junkets. I heard this in 1972.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The version I heard was the Enterprise Vs a Scottish light house in the 60's on one of it's many North Atlantic junkets. I heard this in 1972.

Here is how bad it can be; Pt. Honda, California 1923. Seven destroyers traveling in a column following the guide lost, two more damaged, and several sailors killed. Pre-radar, pre-GPS, pre-radio navigation, etc., etc. I never say "never" but for that to occur today, a US Navy warship getting in a pissing contest, bad R/T technique and all, with a lighthouse, Canadian or otherwise, is just not plausible. Possible, maybe at the outer edges of credibility, but plausible? Not bloody likely.

[SokoX]

Originally Posted by desertswo

No. It didn't. You simply want it to have happened, for whatever reasons you hold in your mind. That story, or versions of it pre-date WWII.

Have horrible things happened with ships colliding with each other or running aground? Sure; I was even a party to one in 1980 when my ship collided with a freighter out of Bangladesh, That moron had his helm in iron mike and was showing red over red just so everyone would stay out of his way while he literally went to sleep. Meanwhile, here comes a carrier battle group unrepping, which gave us the right of way. He didn't answer any attempts to reach him via Channel 16. We were made up on our starboard side taking on fuel, and taking stores and ammo via helo from the ammo ship and "attack food ship" off our port side. All dressed up and no place to go, and that son of a bitch just kept on coming. No one was hurt, and the damage from what became a glancing blow was limited to a sixty foot gash in our side well above the waterline, our number four elevator out of commission, and the nutating members of our port side SPG-55B fire control radar for our Terrier missile battery laying on the other guy's deck. Heads rolled, as they should have, but it just shows you the level of unprofessional conduct in the international theater of civilian navigation.

I can't convince myself it was just a plain legend. You may be some of the guys that are involved in highly organized propaganda of denigrating and classifying this story as a legend and once for all put it out of talks.

[SokoX]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The version I heard was the Enterprise Vs a Scottish light house in the 60's on one of it's many North Atlantic junkets. I heard this in 1972.

Don't get fooled! They on purpose interjaculate different versions of this true story, all on purpose to forever seal the deal and hide the real truth behind the curtain of vast inerpretations.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by SokoX

Don't get fooled! They on purpose interjaculate different versions of this true story, all on purpose to forever seal the deal and hide the real truth behind the curtain of vast inerpretations.

In the relatively short while I have been contributing to these threads, I have gained the reputation for being a patient teacher for those who are fascinated by the profession of arms. Popeye, Southeaststeve, Norhtern Ladd, Max and I come at this from a world of experience you neither have, nor can appreciate. In my case, I am the son of a naval officer, and spent 25 years as a Surface Warfare Officer in the United States Navy, including long sea tours in four ships and one afloat staff, including command of one ship and two shore stations in my own right.

For reasons that passeth all understanding, you cleave to some conspiracy theory based in nothing more than a bunch of guys swapping sea stories. I can tell hundreds; some of them are even true, but this one is not one of them. There are plenty of real ones that have occurred in my lifetime; USS Enterprise striking the reef off Bishop's Rock near San Diego, ripping a hole in her hull and damaging her port side screws. That was 1985; when I was stationed in my home town of San Diego. Or back in 1975 before I was commissioned, but during Popeye's time, USS Belknap collided with USS John F. Kennedy in the Mediterranean. A Chief Machinist Mate who worked for me some years later was aboard Belknap and only managed to escape death by pure, dumb luck. As you can see in the photo below, cruisers don't do well going mano-a-mano with aircraft carriers.



The point is that people like me, who used to operate US Navy surface ships, have heard all of the stories, and the ones that are real, we learn from because they are all written up, warts and all, for us to digest and put into our own internal data banks so that the same thing doesn't happen to us. I would say, "Trust me on this one," but I know it won't register with conspiracy theorists such as yourself. There is much more I know from working in the special ops world in the Pentagon that make far better stories than the one you believe in so deeply; but I won't say, "Trust me. "

[skit_uk]

Another thing to consider, is the fact that nearly all lighthouses were automated many years ago. I can't imagine there are many lighthouse keepers around anymore.

[skit_uk]

Originally Posted by SokoX

Don't get fooled! They on purpose interjaculate different versions of this true story, all on purpose to forever seal the deal and hide the real truth behind the curtain of vast inerpretations.

I don't think anyone really cares if it is real or not. Hardly important if it did happen, a bit embarrassing yes but a big deal? no.

[desertswo]

My sister Judy, who is the keeper of all family memorabilia, keeps coming across old photographs of my father that I've never seen before. As a member of the US Navy in three wars (Sino-Japanese, WWII, and Korea), he saw a lot in his 20 years of active duty. I just thought I would share this with you all because it sort of says a lot about the times in which he lived. Below is Chief Warrant Officer Two, Ship's Boatswain in USS Hassayampa (AO-145), circa 1955.



He's only 36 years old in that photograph, yet he looks 60 at least. Having an aircraft carrier torpedoed out from under oneself at Guadalcanal, Yamato firing 18 inch guns in ones general direction at the Battle off Samar, and having Kamikaze's buzzing around the vicinity at both Iwo Jima and Okinawa will do that to you. All the self-medicating with tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine didn't help. Also, as a US Navy craft master in command of an ocean going tug, he also had the pleasure of towing target ships, and then hanging around to observe the exercise shown below.



All of that "excitement" makes a person old before their time. He was dead at 61. I look back now and realize that he wasn't altogether "normal." There were demons there, and often I would see the "thousand yard stare." I recognize it now when I look in the mirror now and then. Still, he would do it all over again, and so would I. I sometimes wish I knew why.

[SokoX]

Originally Posted by desertswo

In the relatively short while I have been contributing to these threads, I have gained the reputation for being a patient teacher for those who are fascinated by the profession of arms. Popeye, Southeaststeve, Norhtern Ladd, Max and I come at this from a world of experience you neither have, nor can appreciate. In my case, I am the son of a naval officer, and spent 25 years as a Surface Warfare Officer in the United States Navy, including long sea tours in four ships and one afloat staff, including command of one ship and two shore stations in my own right.

For reasons that passeth all understanding, you cleave to some conspiracy theory based in nothing more than a bunch of guys swapping sea stories. I can tell hundreds; some of them are even true, but this one is not one of them. There are plenty of real ones that have occurred in my lifetime; USS Enterprise striking the reef off Bishop's Rock near San Diego, ripping a hole in her hull and damaging her port side screws. That was 1985; when I was stationed in my home town of San Diego. Or back in 1975 before I was commissioned, but during Popeye's time, USS Belknap collided with USS John F. Kennedy in the Mediterranean. A Chief Machinist Mate who worked for me some years later was aboard Belknap and only managed to escape death by pure, dumb luck. As you can see in the photo below, cruisers don't do well going mano-a-mano with aircraft carriers.



The point is that people like me, who used to operate US Navy surface ships, have heard all of the stories, and the ones that are real, we learn from because they are all written up, warts and all, for us to digest and put into our own internal data banks so that the same thing doesn't happen to us. I would say, "Trust me on this one," but I know it won't register with conspiracy theorists such as yourself. There is much more I know from working in the special ops world in the Pentagon that make far better stories than the one you believe in so deeply; but I won't say, "Trust me. "

There is no need to continue on this quip, since you are not a person I want to troll having in mind your life accomplishments and naval history. I was just making fun out of this story in my own way, so my apologizes if I offended you in any way.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by SokoX

There is no need to continue on this quip, since you are not a person I want to troll having in mind your life accomplishments and naval history. I was just making fun out of this story in my own way, so my apologizes if I offended you in any way.

Understood, and apologies accepted. I teach as adjunct faculty for a university here in the States, and one of the courses I teach is done online. I have to constantly remind students that in the ethernet, no one can see your eyes or the smile on your face when fooling about. One can only know what one reads, and if one is not careful, a troll who is acting only in fun, can create a lot of unintended havoc. I know you probably know that, but it never hurts to repeat the lesson occasionally. I will take your response as one of an honorable man.

[SokoX]

Originally Posted by desertswo

Understood, and apologies accepted. I teach as adjunct faculty for a university here in the States, and one of the courses I teach is done online. I have to constantly remind students that in the ethernet, no one can see your eyes or the smile on your face when fooling about. One can only know what one reads, and if one is not careful, a troll who is acting only in fun, can create a lot of unintended havoc. I know you probably know that, but it never hurts to repeat the lesson occasionally. I will take your response as one of an honorable man.

Thanks for your understanding! After I have read you are college professor my respect for you has grown even more! Wish you all the best in your future work.

[desertswo]

Originally Posted by SokoX

Thanks for your understanding! After I have read you are college professor my respect for you has grown even more! Wish you all the best in your future work.

I teach courses on terrorism and extremist behavior, as well as one on the psychology of criminal behavior. Let's just say I have an academic background different from most military officers, and life experiences different from most academicians. They came looking for me; not the other way around.