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Old June 23rd, 2012, 04:35 PM   #21
ill tonkso
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Or even better, subways for the cars. Or even better still, subways in the metro sense.
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Old June 23rd, 2012, 07:58 PM   #22
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But not the band, they suck donkeyballs.
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Old June 24th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelking
But not the band, they suck donkeyballs.
They were ok. From Welwyn Garden City, which might explain the name.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Leeds No.1 View Post
If there had to be a form of grade-separated crossing, I'd rather see bridges than subways.

In most cases, at grade and shared space should be encouraged, but where traffic is too high, bridges (if well designed) are much better.
I agree, there are some places where a ped crossing would just be silly, a bridge would be far better.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #25
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On the subject of bridges, Wolverhampton again:

This is the infamous Molineux subway, where the Subway Gang used to ambush away fans as they left the stadium towards the city centre, stabbing and crap.



Ok, fair enough, it's a bad subway.

What I would do: spend a few hundred thousand smartening it up, with lighting, to look like the one someone posted above, with a police guard at each end (it's not very long) on match days.

What they're actually doing:





I'm not sure what to think of this to be honest.

On the one hand, it looks "nice", it's shiny, etc. But it's still a bottleneck for ambushing, you're still blind to anyone on the bridge, etc.

On top of that it doesn't follow the line of the subway at all, it takes you a long way out of your way.

It doesn't even go in a straight line, it goes from the city centre to... the ring road, which is a bit silly. The pedestrian traffic is going to be coming from straight ahead, from the Molineux and Waterloo Road.

But still, it does look nice, and nicer than the subway *in it's current state*. I still think working on the subway would be more fruitful but that's just me.
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Old June 25th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
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They were ok. From Welwyn Garden City, which might explain the name.
Saw them trying to warm up for AC/DC. Who the fuck signed them up for that?
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Old June 25th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #27
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Odd choice for support, I saw Biffy Clyro warm up for Metallica once (well at Download). Two great bands but not appropriate for the same lineup.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #28
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roads should be UNDER pedestrianised streets. examples are leeds city square, it should be in a tunnel with the many pedestirans crossing the road above.

subways are bad.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBadger View Post

I'm not sure what to think of this to be honest.

On the one hand, it looks "nice", it's shiny, etc. But it's still a bottleneck for ambushing, you're still blind to anyone on the bridge, etc.

On top of that it doesn't follow the line of the subway at all, it takes you a long way out of your way.

It doesn't even go in a straight line, it goes from the city centre to... the ring road, which is a bit silly. The pedestrian traffic is going to be coming from straight ahead, from the Molineux and Waterloo Road.

But still, it does look nice, and nicer than the subway *in it's current state*. I still think working on the subway would be more fruitful but that's just me.
I really like it, bridges are always better as people can see across them etc before they walk on them, and that bridge looks pretty cool.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:06 AM   #30
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I used the subway in Newcastle-Under-Lyme for years and I wouldnt have if I was female or elderly, dimly lit, smelly and fecking scary occupants.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #31
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I used the subway in Newcastle-Under-Lyme for years and I wouldnt have if I was female or elderly, dimly lit, smelly and fecking scary occupants.
They are all pretty much the same, and even the bright ones arn't nice, just the fact of it being a tunnel below ground makes them not nice
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Old June 30th, 2012, 04:47 AM   #32
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I dont know, in some respects thats true but I think its more the people and activities they attract. They are a perfect homeless shelter for the night. target for yobs or petty crimes (going way back to the first subways under the thames!).
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Old June 30th, 2012, 06:10 AM   #33
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are there still signs for a topless car wash on the ring road? i followed them for miles only to find it had closed down. how does a brilliantly conceived business like that go wrong?
Lack of staff in cold weather?

The underpasses round here keep flooding.

Underpasses are a bit like concrete social housing; designed by people who will never use them.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #34
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It all very much depends on the area. The social problems described above are perfectly true in parts of Sheffield, but there are large parts of Milton Keynes where that doesn't happen at all and everyone uses them all the time. Also as a general rule, underpasses that don't have zig-zag ramps and are wider than they are high are generally much more pleasant than a tunnel-like one. If you can see through and out the other side it becomes much more like a bridge and you reach a point where you don't even think about the fact you're going through one.

Incidentally, would anyone here use the 'at grade is better' argument with reference to railways? Because the risk of fatal accidents is just as high even with a 30mph road but especially faster ones - slower and less heavy vehicles, but a lot more of them and much less predictable in their movements. I generally prefer the option that keeps fragile human beings apart from big metal things with exceptional amounts of kinetic energy.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #35
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The railway comparison doesn't work very well. Trains weigh hundreds of tons and are much faster than cars (in urban areas). They take a long time to bring to a halt and can't be steered from their course. If I step into the road, oncoming traffic has a chance to stop or avoid me. Good luck trying that on a railway!
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Old June 30th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom View Post
It all very much depends on the area. The social problems described above are perfectly true in parts of Sheffield, but there are large parts of Milton Keynes where that doesn't happen at all and everyone uses them all the time. Also as a general rule, underpasses that don't have zig-zag ramps and are wider than they are high are generally much more pleasant than a tunnel-like one. If you can see through and out the other side it becomes much more like a bridge and you reach a point where you don't even think about the fact you're going through one.

Incidentally, would anyone here use the 'at grade is better' argument with reference to railways? Because the risk of fatal accidents is just as high even with a 30mph road but especially faster ones - slower and less heavy vehicles, but a lot more of them and much less predictable in their movements. I generally prefer the option that keeps fragile human beings apart from big metal things with exceptional amounts of kinetic energy.
No the ones in Milton Kenynes are perfect. They are very wide, you can see to the other side and the slope is gentle. As they were designed at the same time as they built the cities roads, they did not have to send the tunnels deep under the road to avoid utilities. So the tunnels are nice and shallow.

I to would prefer to send the roads below grade, but as roads are much bigger and need shallow grades, it's very expensive and takes a lot more land.

I ideal scenario for me would be for a cities inner ring road or bypass to be below grade between junctions. They don't even have to have complex grade separated junctions, just so that instead of minor roads being cut of the still connected to the city centre. If there were lots of minor roads with easy access to the city core, then many cyclists and pedestrians would use these routes and avoid the big road junctions.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #37
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The principle of segregating motorised from pedestrian traffic and other forms of traffic is a good one. The potential for accidents is reduced, no-one has to wait for anyone else. However, it's all about how you do it. Some of those subways are pretty manky.

I prefer bridges, though the need to make them taller also makes them harder to make accessible and vulnerable to overheight vehicles (see A40 Oxford Road in road). But they're still nice. The one just East of Gypsy Corner on the A40 Western Avenue has a good view of the London skyline. They also put an annotated picture on the railing to show you what you can see.
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