DZH Does North Carolina - Raleigh

[WeimieLvr]

Originally Posted by spencer114

Not in Atlanta any more?

The Triad is an interesting place. Not sure why, I just have a soft spot for Greensboro.

Raleigh is a city that I never "got" until I started dating a local. I've enjoyed watching it evolve and really like the locals that I met.

I love Greensboro too...I went to college there and lived there for several years, but downtown is a just a smidgen of Winston-Salem's. It's a nice but small downtown.

I have always like Raleigh as well, having spent some time there back in the 80s...but it has improved tremendously since then.

[WeimieLvr]

Originally Posted by krazeeboi

Downtown W-S is definitely more historic and dense than downtown Greensboro, but I like the youthful vibe found on Elm and the recent investments that add to the quality of life, namely the ballpark and Center City Park. I guess I'm somewhat partial to downtowns that might not have had a lot to work with but are doing some notable things with what they do have.

Well yeah, it's an individual opinion thing...I think some people just forget about Winston-Salem (and it's newer/bigger/better downtown ballpark).

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by WeimieLvr

Well yeah, it's an individual opinion thing...I think some people just forget about Winston-Salem (and it's newer/bigger/better downtown ballpark).

I agree that people tend to forget about Winston-Salem and I think it's quite underrated (and Greensboro's ballpark is much more of a downtown ballpark, being only two blocks away from Elm Street ).

[WeimieLvr]

Originally Posted by krazeeboi

I agree that people tend to forget about Winston-Salem and I think it's quite underrated (and Greensboro's ballpark is much more of a downtown ballpark, being only two blocks away from Elm Street ).

Greensboro had much more space in the middle of it's downtown because of the smaller downtown, but you're right it is located directly between a couple of highrises. Winston-Salem's ballpark is on Broad Street (2010 Ballpark of the Year on Baseballparks.com), which is very much downtown though not in the midst of the taller buildings (there is a nice skyline view from the park).

But anyway...this shouldn't be a pissing match between Winston-Salem and Greensboro. This occurs often between the two cities, which is probably why I am a little defensive...there is a great deal of competition between them. Check out this local Winston-Salem forum and you can see some of it for yourself: http://www.winstonsalemskyscrapers.com/forum/

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by WeimieLvr

Greensboro had much more space in the middle of it's downtown because of the smaller downtown, but you're right it is located directly between a couple of highrises. Winston-Salem's ballpark is on Broad Street (2010 Ballpark of the Year on Baseballparks.com), which is very much downtown though not in the midst of the taller buildings (there is a nice skyline view from the park).

But anyway...this shouldn't be a pissing match between Winston-Salem and Greensboro. This occurs often between the two cities, which is probably why I am a little defensive...there is a great deal of competition between them. Check out this local Winston-Salem forum and you can see some of it for yourself: http://www.winstonsalemskyscrapers.com/forum/

LOL...I think they compliment each other more than anything and have more similarities than residents of each city are probably willing to admit. But you don't hear too much about downtown Winston-Salem, and it seems that it could give Greensboro a run for its money in the convention industry with the right facilities.

[WeimieLvr]

Originally Posted by krazeeboi

LOL...I think they compliment each other more than anything and have more similarities than residents of each city are probably willing to admit. But you don't hear too much about downtown Winston-Salem, and it seems that it could give Greensboro a run for its money in the convention industry with the right facilities.

One major difference between the two is the size of the urban area as defined by the Census Bureau...W-S is 25 spots higher than GSO, which confirms the perception of W-S being the larger/more urban city. For those that mentioned Elm St. in GSO you should check out Trade St. in W-S...I was shocked at how nice it was when I was there recently.

Yeah I think people who aren't very familiar with W-S are usually pleasantly surprised by downtown and the closer in neighborhoods. As much as I love GSO and have spent a good deal of time there (in the past and currently) it just doesn't offer the downtown "bigger city" feel that W-S does...but there are things that I like better about GSO, like Friendly Shopping Center and UNC-G's campus and the Coliseum.

[WeimieLvr]

So how 'bout those Raleigh photos!

[DZH22]

Lots of nice commentary here. Y'all should know that my next thread is going to be a combined Winston-Salem and Greensboro one (followed by a Charlotte one). I already have all the pics, just slowly cutting them down to a manageable amount. But anyways, just wanted to mention that the next thread will probably be the better spot for all the Winston-Salem vs Greensboro commentary

[spencer114]

We'll be sure to comment about Raleigh in that one

Was your original post here edited? I recall you mentioning that you were surprised to like Raleigh better than the other big NC city? I first responded based on your observation. That being sponged from the record makes me look like a douche for having brought up Charlotte (the city has grown on me) at all. Maybe I was on peyote at the time and dreamed the whole thing up?

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by spencer114

We'll be sure to comment about Raleigh in that one

Was your original post here edited? I recall you mentioning that you were surprised to like Raleigh better than the other big NC city? I first responded based on your observation. That being sponged from the record makes me look like a douche for having brought up Charlotte (the city has grown on me) at all. Maybe I was on peyote at the time and dreamed the whole thing up?

That comment was made in the "Your Favorite Southern Tallest" thread. I said BOA in Charlotte was, but then mentioned that I surprisingly liked Raleigh better than Charlotte (seems more urban). I thought Charlotte just had way too many parking garages surrounded by parking lots. Still had a great skyline though, but it seemed like the city started and ended there.

[spencer114]

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I was going crazy.

[WeimieLvr]

Looking forward to your next thread...I love all of the NC cities - not a bad one in the bunch in my opinion.

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by WeimieLvr

One major difference between the two is the size of the urban area as defined by the Census Bureau...W-S is 25 spots higher than GSO, which confirms the perception of W-S being the larger/more urban city. For those that mentioned Elm St. in GSO you should check out Trade St. in W-S...I was shocked at how nice it was when I was there recently.

Yeah, Winston-Salem's urban area is larger and it seems like the gap has been grown a bit. But it seems that Greensboro's infrastructure is better, or maybe even outsized. I may be in the Triad later this month, so I will have to check out Trade Street when I come.

Yeah I think people who aren't very familiar with W-S are usually pleasantly surprised by downtown and the closer in neighborhoods. As much as I love GSO and have spent a good deal of time there (in the past and currently) it just doesn't offer the downtown "bigger city" feel that W-S does...but there are things that I like better about GSO, like Friendly Shopping Center and UNC-G's campus and the Coliseum.

I think Greensboro is more proactive about promoting itself and getting its name out there as well. Winston-Salem could take a page from that playbook and could definitely be successful in its efforts.

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by DZH22

That comment was made in the "Your Favorite Southern Tallest" thread. I said BOA in Charlotte was, but then mentioned that I surprisingly liked Raleigh better than Charlotte (seems more urban). I thought Charlotte just had way too many parking garages surrounded by parking lots. Still had a great skyline though, but it seemed like the city started and ended there.

Don't really get the "parking garages surrounded by parking lots" part, but there's definitely a plethora of surface parking in Uptown. Thankfully more infill is occurring that's eliminating a couple of them.

[WeimieLvr]

Originally Posted by krazeeboi

Yeah, Winston-Salem's urban area is larger and it seems like the gap has been grown a bit. But it seems that Greensboro's infrastructure is better, or maybe even outsized. I may be in the Triad later this month, so I will have to check out Trade Street when I come.



I think Greensboro is more proactive about promoting itself and getting its name out there as well. Winston-Salem could take a page from that playbook and could definitely be successful in its efforts.

Let me know what you think about Trade Street...I was blown away by it - in the 70s it was a well-known area for prostitutes/drugs/crime. It's amazing to see it now. http://www.dadaws.org/history-of-trade.html

[DZH22]

How about you guys take the Winston-Salem/Greensboro talk into the Winston-Salem/Greensboro thread that I just posted

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by DZH22

How about you guys take the Winston-Salem/Greensboro talk into the Winston-Salem/Greensboro thread that I just posted

Seconded!

[WeimieLvr]

It was already over with, or so it seems...but okay.

[IberiaCLT]

Originally Posted by krazeeboi

Don't really get the "parking garages surrounded by parking lots" part, but there's definitely a plethora of surface parking in Uptown. Thankfully more infill is occurring that's eliminating a couple of them.

I don't either. Only 3rd ward has some noticeable parking lots but they're all about to disappear within the next year. Apartment tower, Hotel Midrise, 3rd Ward Park, BB&T Uptown Stadium with Retail, and naturally the remaining lots will fill up. Not Counting the little Crown on PNC, Raleigh's Tallest would be Charlotte's 8/9th Tallest alone... Our CBD is much larger. Now I don't know about RDU's neighborhoods, but I can vouch for Charlottes and CLT does not start and end in the CBD... Dilworth, Plaza-Midwood, NoDa, Southend, Elizabeth/Midtown, Cherry, etc. etc. are vibrant, walkable, shops, Historic, etc. etc. 277 is a Psychological barrier, but Light Rail and other street projects and just infill over the years are making that barrier less noticeable. They also plan on capping 277 one day.


Raleigh is not more urban than Charlotte... By a long shot.

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by IberiaCLT

I don't either. Only 3rd ward has some noticeable parking lots but they're all about to disappear within the next year. Apartment tower, Hotel Midrise, 3rd Ward Park, BB&T Uptown Stadium with Retail, and naturally the remaining lots will fill up. Not Counting the little Crown on PNC, Raleigh's Tallest would be Charlotte's 8/9th Tallest alone... Our CBD is much larger. Now I don't know about RDU's neighborhoods, but I can vouch for Charlottes and CLT does not start and end in the CBD... Dilworth, Plaza-Midwood, NoDa, Southend, Elizabeth/Midtown, Cherry, etc. etc. are vibrant, walkable, shops, Historic, etc. etc. 277 is a Psychological barrier, but Light Rail and other street projects and just infill over the years are making that barrier less noticeable. They also plan on capping 277 one day.
[/IMG]

Go to google maps and type in Charlotte. Zoom in until it turns to the 45 degree angle and you can see all of the actual buildings. Look at all the empty space surrounding the skyline. Now do the same with Boston.

I think part of it might be that I had much lower expectations for Raleigh than Charlotte. Also, Raleigh has a more established core, and I basically judge a city from its core outward. Charlotte gives off the impression of being a bigger city because of the height of the skyscrapers, so I was disappointed at how quickly the urbanity seemed to end outside of a few main streets.