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Old June 27th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #7281
Paule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looksee View Post
Quite right; It's neither as old or obsolete.

Good one Looksee!
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #7282
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Quote:
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Quite right; It's neither as old or obsolete.

Well it certainly is shameful that the American economy is such that a major corporation can simply trash an entire skyscraper, but to only point out that a problem exists and then preach that it is shameful to exist falls short of understanding the problem or proposing a solution. Disposable culture isn't NML's fault, it's the fault of cheaply and readily accessed industrial materials which can be attributed to America's wealth of resources and free market attitudes.

It is very easy to play righteous on this case but it is important to understand that the same relative cheapness of luxury has built the comfortable culture we inhabit. The enormous cities of America are dependent on cheap labor and materials. Consider as an example the industrialization of food, another byproduct of consumer culture that is often criticized. Without a massive industrial and economic infrastructure designed to quickly and efficiently deliver food to urban areas, urban areas couldn't exist. The same can be said for building materials and construction. If the market for construction isn't competitive enough to be able to propose replacing existing buildings, new skyscrapers can't happen.

My point is that the disposability of the NML building is a double edged sword that extends beyond the purview of NML: the affordability and accessibility of advanced materials that makes such a building obsolete is exactly what enables skyscrapers and contemporary urban culture. Competition is the entire point of the skyscraper, and demolition of 'obsolete' older skyscrapers is economically required to sustain new construction. I don't advocate such a system being wise or healthy, it is simply the nature of the system.

You implied earlier that Milwaukee has a lesson to be learned from Rome in terms of the value of reusing buildings, but I should mention that Rome has only about 4 'skyscrapers' for a 3,000 year old city with more than 3 million residents, the tallest of which is only about 25 floors. American and European buildings markets do not operate the same, and it doesn't work to compare the two. I honestly could care less about skyscrapers, but if you advocate skyscrapers, especially in a smaller city like Milwaukee, you should be aware of their urbanistic consequences.

Last edited by CGII; June 27th, 2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #7283
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Old June 27th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #7284
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Look, I'm only trying to shed some light on why things happen the way they do. If you'd rather act like a bitter child that's fine, I'll stop wasting my time here. I should've known better than to try and share professional knowledge on the internet.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #7285
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Sydney Hih one step away from demolition

The City of Milwaukee Zoning Neighborhood and Development Committee voted 4 to 1 on Tuesday for the appeal to interim historic designation and pave the way for the demolition of the Sydney Hih buildings. Now it goes up for a vote at the Milwaukee Common Council Meeting on July 6th. The consensus among the 4 aldermen on this committee voting for the appeal is that the proposal came at least 10 to 15 years too late to save the buildings and the hidden not repaired damage from the fires over the years and denial of historic status from the state and federal historic societies didn't help either. So based on this vote I see anywhere from a 10 to 5 or even a 13 to 2 vote in favor of the appeal at the Common Council meeting. Unless a real miracle happens, the Sydney Hih buildings are going to be demolished.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #7286
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Personally, I only see the point of saving the buildings at this point if there's an investor or tenant committed. I hate seeing these buildings come down though.

The question to avoid this in 10 years is, why isn't the city being more proactive on building owners? Why aren't preservationists pushing this? Does anyone really think emotional meetings at the last minute can (or even should) save the buildings?
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Old June 28th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #7287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looksee View Post
Quite right; It's neither as old or obsolete.

OTOH, it is being run by a bunch of people who appear to me to be similarly clueless....

Mike
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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #7288
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City census up over 3k since the 2010 census

http://www.biztimes.com/article/2012...RS02/120629770

Glad to hear this and with the addition of the Moderene and The North End II this number should hopefully continue to rise.

It shall be noted that West Allis is the 565th largest city in the country
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Old June 29th, 2012, 06:58 AM   #7289
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More information about possible tenants of the new proposed office building downtown next to the US Bank building. http://www.biztimes.com/article/2012...RS06/120629816

Also news about the ground breaking of the new hotel next to the casino. http://www.biztimes.com/article/2012...in-in-mid-July

As I said earlier, I think the new proposed office tower downtown next to the US bank building is a good design, and I am excited about it. If the site is successfully developed it will only add more pressure to redevelop the transit building next door, and will contribute to making the downtown more vibrant. Rumors about redeveloping the transit center site are swirling about a mixed use proposal, and having more jobs, a fitness center, restaurant, etc right next door will only make the transit center site more attractive, especially considering the current state of the site of the office building proposal.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #7290
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As I said earlier, I think the new proposed office tower downtown next to the US bank building is a good design, and I am excited about it. If the site is successfully developed it will only add more pressure to redevelop the transit building next door, and will contribute to making the downtown more vibrant. Rumors about redeveloping the transit center site are swirling about a mixed use proposal, and having more jobs, a fitness center, restaurant, etc right next door will only make the transit center site more attractive, especially considering the current state of the site of the office building proposal.
Agreed, I think the scale of the building is great for the site and the design is quite nice. Especially like the idea of a terrace for the building tenants overlooking the lake. Hopefully they could add some green roof qualities to it, or at least a lot of greenery and some small trees.

The building will really be pretty prominent as far as its appearance, IMO, driving 794 east towards the lake, driving over the Hoan or just being down by the MAM or Discovery World.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #7291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaletotheZoo View Post
http://www.biztimes.com/article/2012...RS02/120629770

Glad to hear this and with the addition of the Moderene and The North End II this number should hopefully continue to rise.

It shall be noted that West Allis is the 565th largest city in the country
Glad to hear it. I really hope by the next census in 2020 that Milwaukee's census is OVER 600 thousand.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #7292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
Personally, I only see the point of saving the buildings at this point if there's an investor or tenant committed. I hate seeing these buildings come down though.

The question to avoid this in 10 years is, why isn't the city being more proactive on building owners? Why aren't preservationists pushing this? Does anyone really think emotional meetings at the last minute can (or even should) save the buildings?
This is total BS. What about the building at Holton and North Ave?
Nice castle brick building just wasting away. Some buildings deserve being saved. I wish the bubble had lasted long enough for some screwball investor to have atleast fixed up the Sydney Hih building and also that really old previous brewery building that got moved. I personally dont understand how it is the city of Milwaukee doesnt have enough money to save those two buildings.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 03:14 PM   #7293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohammed wong View Post
This is total BS. What about the building at Holton and North Ave?
Nice castle brick building just wasting away. Some buildings deserve being saved. I wish the bubble had lasted long enough for some screwball investor to have atleast fixed up the Sydney Hih building and also that really old previous brewery building that got moved. I personally dont understand how it is the city of Milwaukee doesnt have enough money to save those two buildings.
Why would, or a better question, should, the city be asked, at taxpayers expense, to save buildings that apparently no one wants to save? If the SH was destined to keep standing someone would have jumped in before it was too late. No one has stepped up because they realize it is too far gone at this point. The sentimental minority who cried out to put the demo on hold should have ponied up when they had the chance, but apparently its worth wasn't all that valuable to them until the reality of its demise came to light. You can't put the burden of it's inevitable fate on the city.

There is no doubt SH was a unique place...I don't frequent the city as much as I would like, but I have known of this building for some time. I think at some point when it would have still been a viable investment, it would have been a worthwhile venture to make some use of the place, but ffs sometimes you just have to let things go and move on...particularly when the odds are so stacked against you. You snooze...you lose.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #7294
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Quote:
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Why would, or a better question, should, the city be asked, at taxpayers expense, to save buildings that apparently no one wants to save? If the SH was destined to keep standing someone would have jumped in before it was too late. No one has stepped up because they realize it is too far gone at this point. The sentimental minority who cried out to put the demo on hold should have ponied up when they had the chance, but apparently its worth wasn't all that valuable to them until the reality of its demise came to light. You can't put the burden of it's inevitable fate on the city.

There is no doubt SH was a unique place...I don't frequent the city as much as I would like, but I have known of this building for some time. I think at some point when it would have still been a viable investment, it would have been a worthwhile venture to make some use of the place, but ffs sometimes you just have to let things go and move on...particularly when the odds are so stacked against you. You snooze...you lose.
Exactly, spot on.

What I was trying to convey above is that it doesn't have to be this way. Why isn't the next SH getting cracked down on deferred maintenance right now?

Yeah, it's politically unpopular to go after owners & investors in the city. However, the building stock is worth more than the sum of its NPV, especially to the city... they'll ultimately have to deal with buildings & crappy landlords bringing down land values.

Go after the low-hanging fruit of marginal & run-down areas. A building stock in better condition, increases desirability & value. Every vacant, boarded up building tears that down, along with our history.
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 05:44 AM   #7295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =dba=Ronin View Post
Why would, or a better question, should, the city be asked, at taxpayers expense, to save buildings that apparently no one wants to save? If the SH was destined to keep standing someone would have jumped in before it was too late. No one has stepped up because they realize it is too far gone at this point. The sentimental minority who cried out to put the demo on hold should have ponied up when they had the chance, but apparently its worth wasn't all that valuable to them until the reality of its demise came to light. You can't put the burden of it's inevitable fate on the city.

There is no doubt SH was a unique place...I don't frequent the city as much as I would like, but I have known of this building for some time. I think at some point when it would have still been a viable investment, it would have been a worthwhile venture to make some use of the place, but ffs sometimes you just have to let things go and move on...particularly when the odds are so stacked against you. You snooze...you lose.
Because it would be a good investment of taxpayer money. Thats all.
Just my opinion. Yes its not JUST the cities fault. Its just that Milwaukee was too SLOW to recover really as a city to save it and in general that area was too desolate for too long. And yes, it was allowed to crumble/waste away for too long. Really the biggest fault is that of the previous landlord. In any case it shouldve been rehabbed in the eighties or nineties (Sydney Hih).....
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 05:45 AM   #7296
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Quote:
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Exactly, spot on.

What I was trying to convey above is that it doesn't have to be this way. Why isn't the next SH getting cracked down on deferred maintenance right now?

Yeah, it's politically unpopular to go after owners & investors in the city. However, the building stock is worth more than the sum of its NPV, especially to the city... they'll ultimately have to deal with buildings & crappy landlords bringing down land values.

Go after the low-hanging fruit of marginal & run-down areas. A building stock in better condition, increases desirability & value. Every vacant, boarded up building tears that down, along with our history.
I agree.... The owners were and are at fault.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 05:54 AM   #7297
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No worries Mariachi, just joshing you I know Tosa isn't like West Allis (note: Tell your brother to stay far away the suburbs that start at West allis and end up around south Milwaukee). The people that live in Wauwatosa are certaintly a different breed. So if you tend to lean more to the left you pretty much want to steer clear of Tosa since its just (insert waukesha county town here) located in Milwaukee county. Wauwatosa is okay I guess if you like going to the Mall and need to be in close proximity of highway 100 and its never ending strip malls and suburban sprawl.
Tosa between 60th and 76th (read, the pretty and urban part) is as liberal as the East Side. I grew up in Tosa and the most liberal families and kids I've ever met hail from there.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 10:14 AM   #7298
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Sydney HiH saved? Or a last second attempt to prevent demolition?

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entert...rt=newestfirst

NO details are offered, but I do think that anyone willing to attempt to save them should get the opportunity, especially since nothing is currently planned for the space.

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Old July 3rd, 2012, 05:22 PM   #7299
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Always interesting to read the defeatist suburban centric views on journal sentinel news site.

If Sydney Hih makes it, it definitely will be against the odds, most people have it out for this building. I personally have my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 05:31 PM   #7300
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More pics of potential sydney hih redevelopment.






Last edited by mohammed wong; July 3rd, 2012 at 05:42 PM.
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