BRISTOL | Transport

[tpm]

Dronkula: looks like he's getting Weston-super-Mare M5 junction 21 improvements in return. Though I'm sure those things have nothing to do with each other and the timing is pure coincidence.

[Delirium]

Maybe you've seen it, but this I figured people would find this muito interessante.

[Pompey77]

The governments HLOS and SoFA (basically the governments vision for the railways) are being released on Monday so we should expect some leaks over the weekend in relation to electrification of the GWML.

[CitizenSanchez]

As a transport professional, I cannot understand how the Long Ashton BRT has a business case if Portishead passenger line reopens.

My suggestion would be to
1. Develop North Bristol Fringe to South Bristol as a faster light rail scheme. If Nottingham can afford to develop its third line, why shouldnt Bristol ? We have a more successful economy and higher GVA.
2. Convert Severn Beach line/Henbury Loop to Light Rail
3. Develolp north and south Hub interchanges at Windmill Hill (connects south Bristol scheme to Portishead, WSM rail) and Stapleton Road (connects Severn Beach/Henbury line and Yate/Parkway and Northern Fringe line). Both Hubs would provide fast links to Broadmead and Centre avoiding Temple Meads.
4. Metro services to Lawrence Hill should support much denser development, to achieve this huge roundabout should be scaled down, with underpass to St Phillips Causeway if necessary.

[Pompey77]

That's interesting CitizenSanchez, can totally understand why interchanges avoiding TM would be desirable but why convert Severn Beach & Henbury Loop to light rail? The freight services along the Henbury loop surely makes this a non starter?

[CitizenSanchez]

[QUOTE=Pompey77;93182368]That's interesting CitizenSanchez, can totally understand why interchanges avoiding TM would be desirable but why convert Severn Beach & Henbury Loop to light rail? The freight services along the Henbury loop surely makes this a non starter?[/QUOTE

I'm not hung up on a precise modal solution, rather the principle of a high frequency service. Would need to be every 15 minutes to make it attractive. With 5000 housing units planned to be built on Filton Airfield, and the expansion of CribbsMall, there needs to be a proper public transport alternative, or else there will be congestion problems.

The hubs would provide fast links to the Centre/Habour/Broadmead and would help to regenerate run down areas like Bedminster and Stapleton Road. This is how we approach regeneration in East London where I work and it is paying massive dividends. Obvously the scale is different in Bristol but the principles are the same and could be as effective. :

[Pompey77]

Well I think everyone with experience of the current Severn Beach service is with you on the question of frequency.

Unfortunately (or potential not?) we are stuck with heavy rail on the Henbury Loop & Portishead routes.

Going back to the Staple Hill-Centre tram route, Metro/tram interchange could be encouraged at Lawrence Hill instead of TM (The lines cross here so much easier interchange for metro passengers from Severn Beach/Henbury Loop) but from here the tram would still have to continue to TM to provide an easy link for national rail passengers into town...

[bertyboy]

The Henbury loop really is a pig to consider for high-frequency services. SGC decided to put the housing estate on Filton Airfield on the premise that a station on the Henbury Loop would mitigate any extra car traffic created by the development.
However, BPC have already been allocated line capacity for the DSCT. The problems then are:
a) It is on a steep hill (when you see frieght trains going through the airfield, they are *very* slow)
b) It is single-line for part of it
c) It is in a deep cutting
d) The Stoke Gifford junction is quite busy

In effect, without a substantial 8-figure investment, it's a non-starter.
(BTW, SGC didn't even commission a technical report from NR to determine its feasibility.......ohhh, the North Fringe is going to be fun in five years!)

[Pompey77]

How many freight trains are they expecting to be running on this route? If its enough to prevent regular-ish passenger services to Henbury & North Filton then surely they will cause some serious problems along Filton bank (even after 4tracking) and through Parkway too? Surely they will mostly be night time operations?

I cant see this route being an immediate priority anyway reopening to Portishead and major improvements to Severn Beach will surely come first.

[ill tonkso]

What is the rail line along Spike Island? Looked pretty disused when I visited.

[Pompey77]

that's the harbourside railway, it runs from the M-shed along the habour then between the buildings and under the road down to near the create centre.

[bertyboy]

Originally Posted by Pompey77

How many freight trains are they expecting to be running on this route? If its enough to prevent regular-ish passenger services to Henbury & North Filton then surely they will cause some serious problems along Filton bank (even after 4tracking) and through Parkway too? Surely they will mostly be night time operations?

I cant see this route being an immediate priority anyway reopening to Portishead and major improvements to Severn Beach will surely come first.

The plan is that up to 40% of all the frieght taken out of the DSCT will be carried by train. That means 600,000 TEUs (Twenty-foot Equivalent Units - i.e. metal containers). The average frieght train carries about 100 TEUs, so 6,000 trains per annum, or about 17 per 24 hours *in each direction*. Remembering that the line is single-track for part of its length and a train therefore leaves the line blocked for about 10 minutes, this doesn't leave much scope for high-frequency services to share.

[Pompey77]

Blimey that is a lot of trains. So what improvements do you foresee (beyond building the stations and redoubling the single track section) would be required for frequent passenger service (say 3 per hr each way)?

[bertyboy]

Triple track would do it. I'd estimate that would cost about £200m.

[tpm]

£500m Heathrow link to cut times on Great Western line

"A new £500m rail link to Heathrow Airport has been given the go-ahead which will cut journeys by up to 30 minutes for travellers. (...) From 2021 they will no longer need to travel via London Paddington." (story).

Guess that's only some kind of cross-rail link from Reading/Slough to Heathrow, but still rather nice. Must surely be good for Bristol!

Alas, Bristol Airport is not happy. If only they got their heads out of their ... and started to fix the rather ridiculous surface access to the airport. Sure, a direct rail link is considerably more expensive than a few new busses, but now that the Bristol Metro is taking off, a direct link in 10 years time should be feasible as part of the Bristol Metro, even with less than the 15m passenger per annum that the masterplan suggests are required for a viable rail link.

[Pompey77]

They are right to an extent, it is folly to continually spend such huge sums on improving access to an airport so constrained in its ability to grow.

Originally Posted by bertyboy

Triple track would do it. I'd estimate that would cost about £200m.

That then makes it an unlikely prospect for the foreseeable. Would need some mighty developer contributions to raise that sort of sum.

[BoyamIjealous]

Where to start? Most obviously with thanks to Geoffbradford - a wonderful idea to have a transport thread. I have always felt a little twinge of guilt when banging on about transport in the main Bristol thread. These are suddenly exciting times in transport, and it will be good to discuss and record things as they happen.

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

What is the rail line along Spike Island? Looked pretty disused when I visited.

Until recently, this was the preserved route for a light rail line, to connect with the Portishead line at Ashton Gate. Now (and I can feel my blood beginning to boil) it is the route for the stupid Bus Rabid Transit Line 2 from 400 yards from Temple Meads to a park and ride that will get much quieter when the Portishead line reopens. In short, it will be ripped up, and replaced by a concrete busway, with rails set into it so the Harbour Railway can at least run a token service on Sundays. This monumental folly is supposed to be costing us £49 million, although given that West of England Partnership spent £1 million on the inquiry alone, according to Bristol Evening Post, the final tab could be a lot more. Stop BRT2, a pressure group opposed to this act of wanton political vandalism, did a pretty good job of rubbishing WEP's business case at the Inquiry. The inspector gives his verdict in the autumn. Just before the mayoral election, then, which could yet throw a spanner in the works.

The line was last used by mainline traffic in the early 1980s, with a regular coal train delivery to what was then Western Fuel's depot at Wapping Wharf - now the car park. It was disconnected from the main line before the Portbury Dock line was rebuilt, prior to which it saw occasional use for visiting engines going to the Harbour Railway. The latter still uses it as far as the Create centre. It also saw use as a test track for the Parry People Carriers for a couple of years, successfully running the little flywheel powered trams in what could have been a demonstration of a better idea than BRT.

Before that again, the Harbour railway ran across Bathurst Basin over a bridge (shown in the photo on that link) into the tunnel next to the Ostrich pub. The bridge over the main road by the Grosvenor Hotel, which took it into Temple Meads, was demolished in the 1990s. Ah, had we known then what we know now!

[bertyboy]

I might start a Bristol Mayoral thread, but I was chatting to one of the candidates tonight (Tim Collins), who has a long history in Bristol politics, trying to get light rail to the city when he was chair of the planning, highways and transport committee. Not a massive fan of BRT2, but very keen on quickly developing the heavy rail metro (and also thinks light rail would be better use of the old Midland line up to Mangotsfield, despite the inevitable scuppering by Sustrans).

[BoyamIjealous]

Originally Posted by bertyboy

I might start a Bristol Mayoral thread, but I was chatting to one of the candidates tonight (Tim Collins), who has a long history in Bristol politics, trying to get light rail to the city when he was chair of the planning, highways and transport committee. Not a massive fan of BRT2, but very keen on quickly developing the heavy rail metro (and also thinks light rail would be better use of the old Midland line up to Mangotsfield, despite the inevitable scuppering by Sustrans).

I agree with him on the light rail for Maggotsville, Bertyboy. SusTrans could hardly argue that a tram is not Sustainable Transport, as the route would carry far more people on trams than it currently does on bicycles. It would not be a SusArg. There would be fewer little kids on quad bikes, too. If it ever happened, there would be fewer buses running down Fishponds Road, meaning the cyclists would be able to use the bus lanes even more freely than now. There may even be a way to accommodate cycles by the tram track.

Originally Posted by geoffbradford

A

Development: Great Western mainline electrification
Value: £5 bn including rolling stock, signalling and station upgrades
Developer: Network Rail
Completion: 2017

As game changers go, this is the biggie! I took my own pictures of what will become two new platforms for Bristol Temple Meads:

One platform is still extant in what IKB would have been horrified to see being used as a car park.


The current signal box is inconveniently situated between the new platforms and the rest of the railway network. Fortunately (although not for those who work therein) the resignalling project is scheduled to be done by 2015. After that, this signal box can be bulldozed within moments.

There are many who argue that their own little branch line should be added to the list of electrification projects. Portishead, for example, could be rebuilt, resignalled, and electrified, all within the current programmes. Alas, it is not that simple. There will be one electrification train, 23 wagons long,,,, and it wil follow the orders it is given.

[geoffbradford]

It will be interesting to see what sort of dent (if any) the inspector's report puts in the BRT Ashton Vale route. As a minimum I would hope it stays on Cumberland Rd and doesn't go alongside the harbour.

I hope the council have a fall back position and have learned from the unedifying mess that surrounded the Ashton Vale stadium fiasco.