Lost London

[WallyChops]

And some more: -

1. Bomb damage on Aldersgate St,1944
http://www.flickr.com/photos/londonm...ol-397067@N25/


2. 1943 London at War - Allotments
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzle...ol-397067@N25/


3. Pall Mall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arujess...ol-397067@N25/


4. Bomb damage St Thomas's Hospital 1940
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2609346...ol-397067@N25/


5. V1 over London
http://www.flickr.com/photos/balage6...ol-397067@N25/

[Tubeman]

Finally got around to watching the first in the 'Secret history of our streets' series (Deptford High Street)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jt9bv

A thought occurred towards the end as the very Middle class couple were viewing the £750,000 house (on one of the few original streets still standing)... If Deptford had been left intact, very likely the original working class residents would have been priced out by now anyway... it was inevitable that the community would have been destroyed, 1960's planners or not.

Working class areas whose terraces were generally untouched like Fulham, Battersea, and the west end of Chelsea have now all gentrified and changed beyond recognition without a wrecking ball in sight since the middle of last century.

[ill tonkso]

Ah true, but could you not argue that if our cities weren't redeveloped there would be nowhere else for them to go? These would still be the lower end of the scale as the higher end homes (that have now been converted into smaller units) would still remain as they were?

If that makes any sense.

[WallyChops]

Originally Posted by Tubeman

If Deptford had been left intact, very likely the original working class residents would have been priced out by now anyway... it was inevitable that the community would have been destroyed, 1960's planners or not.

Working class areas whose terraces were generally untouched like Fulham, Battersea, and the west end of Chelsea have now all gentrified and changed beyond recognition without a wrecking ball in sight since the middle of last century.

Perhaps there would still have been pressure on many working-class areas, but surely it would have been lessened by the sheer quantity of Victorian & Georgian housing stock still available (and not destroyed by the Abercrombie/LCC strategy)?

For right or wrong, at least gentrification of working-class areas is usually now a slow and organic process - rather than the brutal and systematic approach of planners in the post-war decades.

[the spliff fairy]

Woolwich

Beresford Square



image hosted on flickr


Grand Theatre



Today



Powis Street



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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr





Today!





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Royal Artillery Barracks

[Tubeman]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

Ah true, but could you not argue that if our cities weren't redeveloped there would be nowhere else for them to go? These would still be the lower end of the scale as the higher end homes (that have now been converted into smaller units) would still remain as they were?

If that makes any sense.

There's a lot of variables I guess, but I reckon the process of working class folk leaving the inner cities for lower income suburbs and satellite towns would have happened regardless... remembering that the Sidcups, Eriths and Bexleyheaths had been built before WW2 and offered far better living conditions than those available in Deptford, Peckham, Walworth etc. I think the wholesale destruction of swathes of these areas hastened the process, but it was inevitable that if the 1960's bulldozers didn't destroy the working class communities, the late 20th century gentrification would have done.

Watched #2 tonight, by the way: Camberwell Grove... very close to home

It's hard to imagine that such stunning Georgian homes ever went through a period of multiple occupancy by low income households. Hindsight's a wonderful thing... and it's easy to look at well-maintained and tastefully renovated street properties in London now and wonder what the 1960's planners were thinking... but very many streets of Georgian / Victorian housing was multiple occupancy, high density, poverty-stricken, poorly maintained, poorly sanitised, and without amenities such as bathrooms and toilets. I can see how the wrecking ball and clean new modern tower blocks surrounded by green space appeared to be the answer at the time.

Don't forget also that in much of inner south London, every single last drop of land was built upon with row after row of terraces... there was no green space whatsoever across all of North Peckham, Walworth, Newington, Old Kent Road, Walworth... the only scraps in the vicinity being Camberwell Green and the Imperial War Museum.

Hence, one positive of the seemingly wanton destruction of swathes of terraced housing was the creation of Burgess Park: the entire park was once terraced housing, which is why there are still random roads and rows of houses in the park.

It certainly went too far, but I'd argue that the creation of tens of thousands of units of social housing across inner London where once stood street properties in a way allowed the working classes to stay in central areas where otherwise they'd have been priced out by now as their private landlords sold up to gentrifiers.

[Light Parade]

Officer Dibble has posted this excellent photo of Surrey Docks in 1983 to the South-East London thread - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=1691, where he also alerts us to an interesting docklands past and present blog.

I've added a couple of maps below, so you can work out locations. The gasometer is a constant! Three completely different topographies in 25 years:

[Smarty]

Originally Posted by Tubeman

There's a lot of variables I guess, but I reckon the process of working class folk leaving the inner cities for lower income suburbs and satellite towns would have happened regardless... remembering that the Sidcups, Eriths and Bexleyheaths had been built before WW2 and offered far better living conditions than those available in Deptford, Peckham, Walworth etc. I think the wholesale destruction of swathes of these areas hastened the process, but it was inevitable that if the 1960's bulldozers didn't destroy the working class communities, the late 20th century gentrification would have done.

Watched #2 tonight, by the way: Camberwell Grove... very close to home

It's hard to imagine that such stunning Georgian homes ever went through a period of multiple occupancy by low income households. Hindsight's a wonderful thing... and it's easy to look at well-maintained and tastefully renovated street properties in London now and wonder what the 1960's planners were thinking... but very many streets of Georgian / Victorian housing was multiple occupancy, high density, poverty-stricken, poorly maintained, poorly sanitised, and without amenities such as bathrooms and toilets. I can see how the wrecking ball and clean new modern tower blocks surrounded by green space appeared to be the answer at the time.

Don't forget also that in much of inner south London, every single last drop of land was built upon with row after row of terraces... there was no green space whatsoever across all of North Peckham, Walworth, Newington, Old Kent Road, Walworth... the only scraps in the vicinity being Camberwell Green and the Imperial War Museum.

Hence, one positive of the seemingly wanton destruction of swathes of terraced housing was the creation of Burgess Park: the entire park was once terraced housing, which is why there are still random roads and rows of houses in the park.

It certainly went too far, but I'd argue that the creation of tens of thousands of units of social housing across inner London where once stood street properties in a way allowed the working classes to stay in central areas where otherwise they'd have been priced out by now as their private landlords sold up to gentrifiers.

If you watch episode 5 set in Bermondsey (in the street I happen to live in) you'll see that you're right. The terraced houses in the street were all transferred to council control and the community remained in place. 3 things really are ending the old community. Most importantly the right to buy but also the ending of sub letting to family members and also stopping giving priority in housing allocation to local residents. All these things combined are leading to the dispersion of the original communities, it's just taking longer than it would have done if they'd have cleared or sold off the original housing.

Fascinating series. I hope they make another one and also look at other cities too.

[The Champ]

60 odd years on still scaffolding!





Google Maps

[11001001]

Not sure if this website has been posted before, but lots of information and photos of abandoned Tube stations.

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/

[WallyChops]

It's amazing to think this photo from the Thames is only from 1959. I love the detail on the warehouse on the right.

It's from Wasleso's brilliant Flickr collection: - http://www.flickr.com/photos/wasleso/

[jamie1371]

Here are scans from some of my books, some of the best images yet.

Check out the density of the buildings.
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr

[WallyChops]

Jamie - thanks for posting the great aerial photos. Aren't these from the Britain from Above collection?

[the spliff fairy]

so dense

[jamie1371]

Originally Posted by WallyChops

Jamie - thanks for posting the great aerial photos. Aren't these from the Britain from Above collection?

yea the same images

[rd77]

Originally Posted by Reconstructism

I'm reading an excellent book at the moment:

Lost Victorian Britain by Gavin Stamp

A lot of sad losses and highlights the almost vindictive attitude towards Victorian architecture that started post-WW1.

I don't have access to a scanner so unfortunately cannot upload any pictures from it.

I have that book too, and can highly recommend it. While much on the rampant destruction shown in this book is uncomprehensible and utterly sad, it does make one more appreciative of the buildings that survive.

[zfreeman]

I love the overhead pictures of St Pauls Cathedral.

You can really see the double skin of the cathedral and how the heavy dome 'rests' on the thicker internal wall rather than the thin external wall of Portland Stone.

[potto]

this is an interesting photo collection from the 60s

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1214156...oto_6531614161

[london lad]

If anyone is in the City later this could be quite a fascinating talk- You have to book a ticket (Free) so get in quick

http://www.thedevelopingcity.com/events/26

Wednesday 25 July, 18:30-20:30
Unrealised Visions of the City
An evening discussion on the plans, skyscrapers and buildings that were designed but never built in the City of London over the last 100 years, to include alternative neoclassical designs for Paternoster Square after its devastation in the Blitz, the redevelopment of Spitalfields Market in the 1980s and Mies van der Rohe's proposed office tower at No 1 Poultry.

Information:
This event is free but booking is essential
Doors open at 18:00 and the talk begins at 18:30
Venue: The Walbrook Building, London EC4

[stevelyons]

thanks for info. nice pictures.