The Official Transport Thread

[Leeds No.1]

Yeah but they're all extensive systems in their own right.

With the current approach in most cities, there will be several transport networks that only cross at a few nodes if at all.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Yeah but they're all extensive systems in their own right.

With the current approach in most cities, there will be several transport networks that only cross at a few nodes if at all.

Presumably this is why the government is trying to force the former county of Avon to form a regional transport authority, to properly co-ordinate the whole network.

[Leeds No.1]

I see that, and you're probably right.

I just think that from central government though, they really don't care about what is the best and most sensible option for cities like Leeds and Bristol. They're only concerned at which offers the cheapest option with the quickest return, as well as seeing an opportunity to test out how bus based schemes work. In other words, the regions and their cities are a playground for central government.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

I see that, and you're probably right.

I just think that from central government though, they really don't care about what is the best and most sensible option for cities like Leeds and Bristol. They're only concerned at which offers the cheapest option with the quickest return, as well as seeing an opportunity to test out how bus based schemes work. In other words, the regions and their cities are a playground for central government.

I don't know if that's entirely fair. The DfT has a limited pot of money to spread around the whole country and so areas that want more intensive transport solutions have to be able to make a cast iron case that what they're proposing is good value for money, as otherwise they're wasting money that could be spent more usefully elsewhere. They were badly bitten by a number of the tram schemes they funded, so its understandable that they'd be enthusiastic about cheaper alternatives.

I think rail and BRT can probably work quite well together. In most UK cities using heavy rail as a metro-like system is inefficient, so having a well integrated bus system in the same area allows the rail network to do what it does best (getting people into and out of major centres) while letting a different mode complete the final leg of the journey.

[Brum X]

To be fair, i think this is quite good for a city the size of Brum, however things need to improve and fast otherwise we will soon be number 1.

Apparently Leeds is the worst UK city at number 7.

Dunno about other UK cities ????????

[Brum X]

Originally Posted by Brum X

To be fair, i think this is quite good for a city the size of Brum, however things need to improve and fast otherwise we will soon be number 1.

Apparently Leeds is the worst UK city at number 7.

Dunno about other UK cities ????????

http://www.tomtom.com/lib/doc/conges...1europe-mi.pdf

[Aaronj09]

Leeds-Bradford is at number 7, London at 8, Brum at 19.

No surprise considering we have no viable transport alternative yet, but it could also be partly due to roadworks on the M62. Congestion in Paris, Brussels, Stockholm and Hamburg must be pretty bad considering they all have some form of light rail or underground.

[Skychaser 2005]

Well this result shows why Leeds desperately needed the investment in a new transport system, and thankfully with Leeds trolleybus being confirmed this week, £250m now being spent on Leeds southern motorways, and a raft of railway developments in Leeds and Bradford, we may see this congestion figure drop in a few years.

[10123]

Yeah the trolley bus will make little difference so I can't envisage anything other than it stagnating.

[Aaronj09]

Originally Posted by 10123

Yeah the trolley bus will make little difference so I can't envisage anything other than it stagnating.

[Skychaser 2005]

Originally Posted by 10123

Yeah the trolley bus will make little difference so I can't envisage anything other than it stagnating.

Well Leeds City Region has a £1.25 bn pot of money to spend on transport infrastructure including the Leeds Trolleybus, so this should help to get our congestion down

[10123]

Originally Posted by Skychaser 2005

Well Leeds City Region has a £1.25 bn pot of money to spend on transport infrastructure including the Leeds Trolleybus, so this should help to get our congestion down

True, true, but for the foreseeable future it looks like just the T-bus and added train stations. The new stations will make a difference sure but the trolley bus looks like a replacement for other bus services that use that route (1,6,etc) so the passengers are going from one mode of transport to the next.

[Skychaser 2005]

Originally Posted by 10123

True, true, but for the foreseeable future it looks like just the T-bus and added train stations. The new stations will make a difference sure but the trolley bus looks like a replacement for other bus services that use that route (1,6,etc) so the passengers are going from one mode of transport to the next.

Sorry 10123, no govt would give a city £250 million to spend on a transport project which does not increase capacity and offers an all round improved service.

[10123]

Originally Posted by Skychaser 2005

Sorry 10123, no govt would give a city £250 million to spend on a transport project which does not increase capacity and offers an all round improved service.

It's 180 million isn't it?

Anyway if you're sure it'll work then cool.

[Suburban Knight]

There's a new 'most congested city' survey put out by somebody every couple of months it seems, and Leeds wasn't the worst UK city in the last one I saw. All these surveys are so arbitrary (and designed purely to give press coverage to whoever paid for them), that they're worth taking with rather a large pinch of salt.

[Kolothos]

I just don't see how squeezing big huge buses onto already congested roads can help! Glasgow are putting in these new 'Fastlink' 'tram-on-wheels' buses (really just a bendy bus with covered wheels and dedicated bus lanes) in the city-centre, and if anyone has ever been in Glasgow and waited on the lights at the four corners, you will know that the place is already packed to the brim with buses. Buses already cause most of the congestion!

The only good way of moving people around a congested city is by an underground metro/light-rail/railway/whatever. It's the only real solution to the problem. Anything else is marginally effective. This is why the Scottish Government have to get serious about the holy grail of transport improvements in Glasgow: Subway expansion (Those two words will send a shiver down any Glaswegians spine!).

I'm fed up with silly little dressed up bendy buses that cost millions to install.

[Paul D]

LIVERPOOL city centre will need a new underground rail station to cope with capacity if its increase in passenger numbers continues.

Rail infrastructure group Network Rail says that by 2020-2025 transport authorities may have to consider constructing a new underground platform at Liverpool Central Station, or building a completely new station at a cost of hundreds of millions of pounds.

A £20m upgrade of Central Station is currently under way to address overcrowding and safety issues.

A revamped Wirral Line platform will re-open next month, on August 25, and the Northern Line refurbishment should open on October 22.

This is to cope with the 18m passengers who use the city underground station each year.

The work is being funded by transport authority Merseytravel to the tune of £5m and a £15m investment from Network Rail.

But a Network Rail Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) document for Merseyrail services says passenger growth will almost certainly lead to a need for more facilities.

The RUS says: “Between 2020 and 2025 the number of passengers will have grown to a level that cannot be accommodated by improvements to the existing station facilities.

“In the same time period overcrowding of the station during weekday peak periods will prevent the required increase in weekday peak service frequency.”

This refers to the sheer weight of passenger numbers on station platforms boarding and alighting trains, which will extend the “dwell” time that trains have to sit at platforms.

The RUS continues: “This means that either a new underground platform, or a new station, will be required, at a potential cost of hundreds of millions.”

It adds: “The rail industry will be required to form a consensus on the key strategic issues facing Liverpool Central station.”

Merseytravel declined to comment on the proposals, saying it is a matter for Network Rail.

A Network Rail spokesman said the proposal remains just that at the moment, but acknowledged that any new underground station would have to be situated by, or nearby the current Central Station.

He said increasing passenger numbers will lead to difficulties in getting people in and out of the station and in and out of trains.

And he added: “We are looking at options with Merseytravel to handle sustained growth in passenger numbers, hopefully leading to sustained economic growth.”

Network Rail’s RUS document said Central Station will require an extra 50% of passenger capacity by 2015 to provide an adequate service.

It says the opening of the £1bn Liverpool One retail centre in 2008 is one of the big drivers in extra passenger numbers, with Central Station operating beyond its passenger capacity for several hours on Saturdays.

[albionfagan]

Have one in China town!

[jrb]

Picture taken by r02bapurdie

Black lines currently under construction.

image hosted on flickr


Hopefully the Port Salford-Trafford Park-Trafford Centre, and the Stockport line(following on from East Didsbury), will happen in a few years?

[jrb]

Wrong thread.