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Old July 17th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #2921
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Doesn't imply it - states it outright :P
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Old July 17th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #2922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
I dunno if the trans pennine route could be electrified due to the low Totley tunnel.
I think a more pressing problem is that the tunnel is drenched and has water running through it like a drain.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #2923
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Work to start on the £2bn road project:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-18879984
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Old July 18th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #2924
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Third Rail in Sheffield???

What would happen when Sheffield station floods -as it often does.......

It has to be overhead...

On another thread there has been a diagram floating around for what will be electrified and when the MML is electrified and HS2 gets to Sheffield there could be a case for the electrification to be carried through to Leeds (as a 'stopping service') on the route not taken via HS2, and if that will be the case then why not electrify the short stretch to Doncaster and link in with the already electrified ECML.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #2925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfreeman View Post
Third Rail in Sheffield???

What would happen when Sheffield station floods -as it often does.......

It has to be overhead...

On another thread there has been a diagram floating around for what will be electrified and when the MML is electrified and HS2 gets to Sheffield there could be a case for the electrification to be carried through to Leeds (as a 'stopping service') on the route not taken via HS2, and if that will be the case then why not electrify the short stretch to Doncaster and link in with the already electrified ECML.
It will get done, but not in the 2014-2019 period that Monday's announcement related to. Given that the Government committed to electrifying lines to Swansea, intensive lines in the Welsh Valleys, a route from Southampton* docks to Sheffield via Reading/ Oxford/ Bedford/ Leicester/ Derby, further lines around the West Midlands - as well as the previously announced electrification from Liverpool to York and Manchester to Blackpool, it'll be after 2019 before there's any capacity to deal with things like Sheffield to Moorthorpe/Doncaster (or Selby to Hull or Chesterfield to Nottingham or Hazel Grove to Sheffield). It will happen though, just not in the next five years.


* - re-electrifying the railway from Southampton to Basingstoke)
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Old July 19th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #2926
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Anyone else think this may be a way of softening the blow for when they announce HS2 is going nowhere near Sheffield?
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Old July 19th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #2927
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Explain to a novice what electrification is all about - is it just about saving on fuel costs?

What's this third rail business?

Will it be quicker? And if so why?
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Old July 19th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #2928
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Electric trains are lighter, so they are quicker to accelerate, cheaper to run etc etc.

Diesel will go in in cost astronomically, electricity (in the long term) can only ever come down in cost in relation.

Third rail discussion is about lines that are currently diesel, but have low tunnels meaning overhead cabling wont fit.

Merseyrail is third rail, and has worked in floodwater this high;

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Old July 19th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #2929
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Quote:
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Explain to a novice what electrification is all about - is it just about saving on fuel costs?

What's this third rail business?

Will it be quicker? And if so why?
There are two methods of electrifying a rail line. One way is adding a third rail which carries electricity in addition to the two rails the train wheels run on. This method of electrification has been used since before the second world war and is used on the London Underground (actually fourth rail as well, but let's not get into that), much of the network of South London, Merseyrail, and the Glasgow Subway.

The other method of electrifying a railway line is adding overhead electric wires. This is used on the WCML, ECML, the suburban networks of North London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and Glasgow, the Tyne and Wear Metro, and all of the tram networks. This is the favoured method nowadays because it is less dangerous to people who may be crossing the railway, is more efficient, and allows higher speeds than third rail. There is talk of converting some of the third rail electrified network to overhead line electrification because of the advantages it offers.

Electrified lines of both varieties have many benefits. Electric trains accelerate more quickly than diesel trains, which means journeys are faster than with diesel trains. They are more energy-efficient, which reduces costs. They cause no pollution at the point of use but the total amount of pollution is dependent on the fuel used at the power stations that supply the electricity. They are lighter, because they don't have to carry fuel, which causes less wear to the tracks and hence lower maintenance costs. They are also quieter. Overhead line electrification allows higher speeds (225mph and beyond) than either diesel (125mph or thereabouts) or third rail (100mph or thereabouts), but of course the top speed in real life depends on the geometry and engineering standards of the particular line.

Last edited by CalumCookable; July 19th, 2012 at 03:27 PM.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #2930
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Thanks for that explaination
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Old July 19th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #2931
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I just wandered up the Sheaf River Walk or whatever it's called, from Granville Square up to Charlotte Rd and Bramall Lane. It's a nice walk but rather overgrown, with no proper signage. This is actually the quickest route from the tram (Granville Rd) to the football stadium but you wouldn't know it unless you were told.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #2932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
I just wandered up the Sheaf River Walk or whatever it's called, from Granville Square up to Charlotte Rd and Bramall Lane. It's a nice walk but rather overgrown, with no proper signage. This is actually the quickest route from the tram (Granville Rd) to the football stadium but you wouldn't know it unless you were told.
I've wanted to do the Sheaf walk (having done the canal as far as Rotherham, the River Don from Meadowhall to Owlerton, the Rivelin from Rails Road to Malin Bridge, the Porter Brook upstream from Hunters Bar), but the lack of signs puts me off trying it.

Can you go all the way from Millhouses Park into town via the Sheaf?
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Old July 20th, 2012, 02:30 AM   #2933
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Not at all. There are just a few smallish stretches you can walk
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Old July 21st, 2012, 12:45 AM   #2934
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It would be good if this map could be combined with the tram map, especially now the tram is going to Rotherham

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Old July 21st, 2012, 10:49 AM   #2935
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Actually thinking about it, the scale would be totally wrong. If it were to be incorporated with a tram map the rail map should only include the more local stations, e.g. Midland station, Dronfield, Dore, Chapeltown, Darnall, Meadowhall, Rotherham, Swinton and Woodhouse
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Old July 21st, 2012, 12:05 PM   #2936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookes View Post
..

Can you go all the way from Millhouses Park into town via the Sheaf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
Not at all. There are just a few smallish stretches you can walk
Ahem....
As this is my part of town I would like to correct this. You can acually walk all the way from millhouses park to town. There is a walkway right the way along the river as far as granville square with large circular cast map signs on plinths every few hundred metres. Behind Tesco at abbeydale there is a boardwalk path, and much of the rest of it is special pathway.
There is a "friends of" group that keeps the river bank clear and fishes rubbish out of the river with the help of the water authorities.
When I used to work on broadfield road we used to receive a leaflet about the group about 2 or 4 times a year.
They have improved many features on the way including new "snow gates" on Saxon road, where the council used to drop cleared snow into the river 40 years ago..
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Old July 21st, 2012, 12:14 PM   #2937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalumCookable View Post
There are two methods of electrifying a rail line. ...
thanks for your concise explanation.

As an electrical/electronic specialist I would just like to add that for any kind of long distance railway the only option is overhead wires, as higher voltages on that type of system 25,000v would be neccesary for the transmission of power over distances.

Lower voltages of a third rail system (400-600v?) would have too many losses and prove uneconomical.
Also I imagine that the higher voltages of overhead system would enable physically smaller motors for the same power ratings. which is ideal for fitting into the wheel assemblies of trains.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 02:27 PM   #2938
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Quote:
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Ahem....
As this is my part of town I would like to correct this. You can acually walk all the way from millhouses park to town. There is a walkway right the way along the river as far as granville square with large circular cast map signs on plinths every few hundred metres. Behind Tesco at abbeydale there is a boardwalk path, and much of the rest of it is special pathway.
There is a "friends of" group that keeps the river bank clear and fishes rubbish out of the river with the help of the water authorities.
When I used to work on broadfield road we used to receive a leaflet about the group about 2 or 4 times a year.
They have improved many features on the way including new "snow gates" on Saxon road, where the council used to drop cleared snow into the river 40 years ago..
It's my part of town too. I suppose we differ in terms of what a path by the river actually means. I meant that for much of the way there is no riverside path, and you must walk on the pavement of the road closest to the river. You can probably hear the river, but not see it all the way. There are long-ish stretches of riverside path from Granville Square to Charlotte Rd, on Broadfield Rd and on Little London Rd.

The stretch beside Tesco can be walked in 2-3 minutes. I heard that as a condition of building the new Tesco they were supposed to be building a path all the way to Millhouses Park but failed to do so. Not sure how much truth there is in that,
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:36 PM   #2939
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It works well in Bangkok though, in fact you'd be mad to consider any other way of getting around the city in rush hour.

Rampways from the stations feed directly into shopping centres and major office and residential developments. The track itself is basically an elevated rail that runs between canyons of skyscrapers and on the whole is quite an impressive solution for its context. Of course Bangkok is a world away from Sheffield and something like the Skytrain wouldn't work here!

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This is an example of one that works!? It looks awful, look at that vast area cast under shadow! Madness to think you'll see such a thing.
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Old July 23rd, 2012, 09:48 AM   #2940
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Yes the Sky Train is by far the best way to get around a massive and dense city centre that has legendary road conjestion. It works very well in its context.

The shadows it casts are non existent when you consider the many skyscrapers that line the urban canyons it passes through. The access and platforms beneath it offer multiple opportunities for retail and commercial operations, offering another layer of activity which only increases the vibrancy and excitement of the city in my opinion.
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