SSC Kolkata Adda - discussions, music, films, videos

[mountaincloud]

Originally Posted by Suncity

Mamata and her loan interest moratorium demand. She is saying she will not give interest at the end of the first video! She is sounding more and more like CPM.

the moratorium demand is a legitimate demand.

someone needs to help her understand why IKEA should be allowed to come to Bengal. We have had enough of substandard furniture designs for the last 60 years that has played its part in reducing overall productivity and general happiness in everyday life. i hope her populism takes a beating for the FDI in retail.

[Suncity]

Originally Posted by mountaincloud

the moratorium demand is a legitimate demand.

why?

[mountaincloud]

Originally Posted by Suncity

why?

because it is. why it isn't?

[Rajarshi77]

If the borrower says it will not pay interest and going to willfully default on interest payment it will increasingly find it difficult to raise fresh loans..

[niljee]

Didi, quite naturally, does not want to own up the debt incurred by the Left Government. But she is more than happy to flaunt the 1 lakh crore of investment proposals form the previous government as her own credit. If she were sincere in getting new investments of that order the debt and the interests would have taken care of themselves. And thats where the long term tragedy is....the moratorium etc are all short term and myopic solutions that are only good for political agendas.

[Suncity]

Originally Posted by mountaincloud

because it is. why it isn't?

You said it was a legitimate demand. So what's the reason for that? I didn't say it isn't legitimate.

Originally Posted by niljee

Didi, quite naturally, does not want to own up the debt incurred by the Left Government. But she is more than happy to flaunt the 1 lakh crore of investment proposals form the previous government as her own credit. If she were sincere in getting new investments of that order the debt and the interests would have taken care of themselves. And thats where the long term tragedy is....the moratorium etc are all short term and myopic solutions that are only good for political agendas.

Will she pay for the debt her govt is incurring? In one financial year (two months of prev and rest of new) the govt has clocked up its loan from Rs 1,87,387.40 crore to Rs 2,08,382.58 crores! That is a whopping 20,995 crores in one year! Or is that part of the moratarium too?

The small saving component is Rs Rs 79,106.04 crore up from Rs 78,753.54 crore. So are they demanding a moratorium on interest on that as well?

And what happens after three years? They plan to resume paying the interest then? A moratorium doesn't mean write off. So they are only delaying the pain?

[mountaincloud]

Originally Posted by Suncity

You said it was a legitimate demand. So what's the reason for that? I didn't say it isn't legitimate.

1. because several states have milked the centre for their gains since independence using a variety of methods. Bengal has had to bear the burden for several reasons -- including post-partition neglect, obstinate left politics, congress party's bias, etc. now that TMC is a part of the ruling coalition, they should have the right to get some favors from the centre.

2. East India is way behind the West, South and some northern states in several metrics of development. (i will not give any evidence here; one can look at the statistics). It is only in the interest of the entire country, long present disparities within India should be addressed and the development of the whole country should be stressed.

3. WB is one of the densest states in the country with a sizeable minority population, which has a dynamic of its own. The returns from the moratorium are likely to be much more here.

3. Mamata Banerjee's debt burden is not her fault. She has said several times WB Govt doesn't want a waiver but a moratorium so that crucial development work can be carried out. The earlier these initiatives are taken, the better.

[invincibletiger]

If the center grants a moratorium to WB, then all other states would be asking for the same.

Originally Posted by mountaincloud

3. WB is one of the densest states in the country with a sizeable minority population, which has a dynamic of its own. The returns from the moratorium are likely to be much more here.

How does having a large minority population make the moratorium demand legitimate?

[AbhishekDatta]

where was this question when UP and bihar got huge pay checks!!! i don't care what other states will supposedly demand...if those states have legitimate demand what the heck they are waiting for...go and speak up...

where are those people who were shouting so far for bengali sentiment for an individual who practically did ghorar dim for bengal...the same people had rejected all party delegation where entire demand was for Bengal and not for any individual!!!

[invincibletiger]

Originally Posted by AbhishekDatta

where was this question when UP and bihar got huge pay checks!!! i don't care what other states will supposedly demand...if those states have legitimate demand what the heck they are waiting for...go and speak up...

where are those people who were shouting so far for bengali sentiment for an individual who practically did ghorar dim for bengal...the same people had rejected all party delegation where entire demand was for Bengal and not for any individual!!!

They didn't get it by openly threatening center for that ... The only compulsion for center to grant such a thing is political. By going into an open confrontation with the ruling party in the center, WB will blow that advantage away.

[AbhishekDatta]

Originally Posted by invincibletiger

They didn't get it by openly threatening center for that ... The only compulsion for center to grant such a thing is political. By going into an open confrontation with the ruling party in the center, WB will blow that advantage away.

I am little confused here!! is your problem with the demand itself or the open threat? if you think the demand is inappropriate u should not care about a shrill or a whisper one

[Suncity]

Asking for moratorium on interest for three years is good politics. But is it a bad signal to the financial world and investors? Instead is there enough scope to extract grants from the Centre? If UP can extract huge grants why cannot WB?

WB's projected grants in aid from Central Govt for this financial year is 20,800 crores. It is also projected to get Rs 21,900 crores as its share of union taxes and duties. The state's own tax revenues are projected to be 31,000 crores. The biggest expenses are loan repayment (prinicipal + interest) of about 25,500 crores, salaries at 31,000 crores and pension of 9500 crores.

Also what is the plan to reduce debt?

In the previous year, debt amount went up by a whopping 20,000 crore. This year the projection is an additional 18,000 crores [actuals are usually more]. At this rate in 5 years Didi may add 100,000 crore of debt - not a mean achievement compared to 190,000 crores from 34 years of misrule.

The interest outflow projected for the current financial year is appx Rs 18,000 crores. So a moratorium for three years is roughly Rs 54,000 crores that will have to paid back later on.

Is this moratorium idea really a good plan? Or just a temporary band aid?

Some experts please weigh in.

[AmitavaGhosh]

Originally Posted by Suncity

Asking for moratorium on interest for three years is good politics. But is it a bad signal to the financial world and investors? Instead is there enough scope to extract grants from the Centre? If UP can extract huge grants why cannot WB?

WB's projected grants in aid from Central Govt for this financial year is 20,800 crores. It is also projected to get Rs 21,900 crores as its share of union taxes and duties. The state's own tax revenues are projected to be 31,000 crores. The biggest expenses are loan repayment (prinicipal + interest) of about 25,500 crores, salaries at 31,000 crores and pension of 9500 crores.

Also what is the plan to reduce debt?

In the previous year, debt amount went up by a whopping 20,000 crore. This year the projection is an additional 18,000 crores [actuals are usually more]. At this rate in 5 years Didi may add 100,000 crore of debt - not a mean achievement compared to 190,000 crores from 34 years of misrule.

The interest outflow projected for the current financial year is appx Rs 18,000 crores. So a moratorium for three years is roughly Rs 54,000 crores that will have to paid back later on.

Is this moratorium idea really a good plan? Or just a temporary band aid?

Some experts please weigh in.

I am not an expect, but still my guess is:
a)Moratorium will ensure at least for now no further debts.So projected additional debt Rs 18,000 crores is knocked off.
b)if SGDP grows @10% and @15% increase in tax revenues/year we should be roughly around 46/47 k in tax revenues.So the increase tax revenue will negate the effect of the interest partially. So chances of further borrowing will be lower.
c)What really offends me is that we have $10 billion to bail out europe, 30K crores to bail out an airlines but no money to help a debt burdened state.

[amibangali]

Originally Posted by AmitavaGhosh

My understanding and suggestions:
a)Money, though tangible, is essentially a very intangible asset.It cannot guarantee a future unless used efficiently.Let me start by asking you a simple question:how many of us are willing to leave their jobs for a decent sum of money?I guess, few of us, maybe more.But if I ask you to relinquish all your degrees for a sum of money, how many of us are willing to do that? I doubt if any.So robbing a farmer of his land is like taking away our degrees and making us incompetent for the rest of the life.A farmer knows no other means of livelihood except farming.
b)Money is a risky and depreciating asset,a sum of money which is sufficient today might not be 5 years hence.Land on the other-hand is a secure and appreciating asset. Everybody understands that.
So money, unless huge and impractical, cannot win you easy access to land for industry of any other purpose.So we have to think about alternatives.
Suggestions:
a) A poor farmer is essentially an insecure person.Land is the only means of his sustenance, that's the main fear of letting go his land.Also since land is fragmented so at best they can get is a few thousands and maybe a few lucky ones get a few lakhs. So why not address his basic insecurities of life first.Make a rule that whenever land is acquired each person and his family will get a health insurance and life insurance, premium of which will be borne by the govt.The cost of education of his children till graduation will be borne by the govt.
b)Each person will be given free vocational training on another means of livelihood.If possible, will be absorbed in some industry as well.
c)On top of it, he will get a monthly royalty based on the quantum of land he holds,revised every 5 years, rather than one time payment.

This has a 2 way advantage. The initial cost of acquiring the land would be low, also they can make a pack with the company that they will bear these insurance costs in the future in exemption for some taxes.

I think this will be a far more effective policy of acquiring land than what is being practiced today.

Great Thinking and Appreciate your suggestions.I feel that your suggestion has it's own merits and demerits.Will discuss it another post.Different people in this forum has their own views and suggestions. A discussion about it is most welcome. But indirectly or Unknowingly you have pointed out that Land acquisition should be done for Industry and Government should be involved in it in terms of providing insurance,educations.So, you are suporting the theory of Land acquisitions.And hence it just opposite to current government policy . No land Acquistion for Industry. The Private players should acquire land at their own.
Now who is stopping the current Government to comeup with their own policy for land acquisition and present it to the Industry and show the result based on it. Also you can't expect industralisation to happen with a non-favourable Land acquitions policy in such a competitative market.
Can you please add your thought about how the industry will acquire land at their own when land is divided in so many small pieces. If one family is ready to give up land and his neighbour doesn't agrees, without Government interferences , how will any industry will be able to do so.

[amibangali]

Originally Posted by anirban_ban

I do not get it. I saw people getting beaten up in their homes.
What is the value of compensation, if tomorrow Govt sends Police to your home and beats you up for your farmland ? Industrialization is important and necessary, I do get that part. But was that the way ?

Can you post the video or the article where you saw people getting beaten up witin their Homes or you are eye witness to any such incident.

I am not sure if such article or video exists where police came and throw people out of there homes or beat them up without providing them any compensations.

[Suncity]

Well West Bengal is not the only state with huge interest out flow per year.
I think, Maharashtra, UP, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh are in the top five league along with West Bengal.

The problem is about revenue generation. With socialist pretences West Bengal's politicians do not in general have the urge to generate more revenues and on top of that they want to behave like Santa Claus.

If they can get a temporary moratorium on interest payment, it is fine. But they have to improve revenue generation and control expenses.

[Rajarshi77]

Its not that we have not got government funds.

• In December 2011 Central government cleared a financial bailout of Rs. 8,750 crore for West Bengal. The Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs (CCEA) cleared the special package under Backward Area Grant Fund. http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ma...-bengal-156221
• In May 2012, Union Minister Jairam Ramesh announced Rs 4000 crore for upgrading rural roads in West Bengal under a central scheme in the current fiscal. http://zeenews.india.com/news/west-b...ts_773420.html
• In June 2012, Union finance ministry offered Bengal a grant-in-aid of Rs 16,000 crore to be paid in three to four tranches over three years. Our government refused to take it.

The Rs. 45,000 crore package for UP mainly includes release of fresh installments of funds for Centrally-aided projects. Basically funds meant for specific uses. In contrast what we asking for is 3 year interest holiday on debt we have contracted. Our logic is that it will free up financial resources that can be used for development works. The risk is- Money saved by way of interest holiday can end up getting distributed in general public for political gains say: free laptops/ colour tvs/ cows/ rice/ houses etc.

The ideal way of doing it is take tough measures: introduce watertax, increase tax compliance, reduce subsidy to transport corporations, increase bus fares so that these transport cos get back to profitability etc. Then go to central govt. and say I have done my bit and now you have to help me to bridge the gap.

However we keep going to Delhi with a begging bowl without taking any hard decisions ourself.

[AmitavaGhosh]

Originally Posted by Suncity

Well West Bengal is not the only state with huge interest out flow per year.
I think, Maharashtra, UP, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh are in the top five league along with West Bengal.

The problem is about revenue generation. With socialist pretences West Bengal's politicians do not in general have the urge to generate more revenues and on top of that they want to behave like Santa Claus.

If they can get a temporary moratorium on interest payment, it is fine. But they have to improve revenue generation and control expenses.

Yeah, but it's very difficult.Basically all major taxes like income,excise and customs go to the central govt.
As per MB "We presently don't have much money left for infrastructure and development".
The states to increase tax revenues has only smaller taxes like sales tax, land revenue etc.Actually it's a double edged sword; to increase land revenues you'll have to bring in industries, who will not come unless given bug tax sops and SEZ and stuffs,which makes it good for nothing.Other way to increase land revenue is to tax agriculture, which is impossible in present India.No political party will commit such suicide.
Sales tax will increase in proportion to the expenditure of the people.Now to increase expenditure you'll have to increase income.Increased income is possible apart from increasing productivity is to create more jobs.If Industries don't come then the govt will have to spend on its own for creation of employment. But how?we began by saying that govt has no money .

[Sumanb]

Actually, there are few ways - one you have talked about - bring more industry (Mfg as well as service, which do not need huge land). Others could be selling off of govt asset (right now the govt auctioning only the land in Kolkata, why not state owned companies), invite PPP mode to make some development work. These measures will not remove the deficit but will control it.

[AmitavaGhosh]

Originally Posted by Suncity

Did anyone in Singur lose their house?

The problem is there were a lot more landless claimants in Singur than estimated. They worked off that land so provision for all of them should have been made. But these could be resolved through discussions. Instead it was an ego issue of return of 400 acres of land. BTW why not 275 acres or 160.5 acres? Why 400 acres?

Your suggestions are good. Someone has to explore the practical side of it.

We have already had lots of dream discussions of how we can pack off industries to places where there is no infrastructure and where nobody wants to live. It sounds nice in theory but it will not happen. The investors will go to Vietnam instead. Of course we can collectively show the finger to the investors and say who cares. We are happy farming.

And when it comes to industries this is our policy - We want industries. But you cannot build them near the coast. You cannot build polluting industries. You cannot build on or near forest areas. You cannot build them in agricultural land. You cannot build them on or near mountains. You cannot build them near rivers. You cannot build them near highways. You cannot build them near populated places. With such a policy who would want to come to WB unless the govt puts out the red carpet with freebies and land?

Sun, clearly you are too pained by the loss of Nano, I can sense a certain level of desperation in trying to justify the govt stand on it. How can you say that nobody lost their house? the area is huge, at least 20 villages must be there. Assuming, for arguments sake, that they all lived on the outer fringes of the hallowed 1000 acres and nobody was directly evicted.So what do you expect the people who lost their land, too gape at the nano factory for the rest of their lives.Without land what are they now? I guess many of them are hawkers for whom NilagriG troubled Dr Mitra or Rickshaw pullers, maybe living in some urban slum.Because save a few, most of them barely got a few thousands.Land is too fragmented there.

Now on a practical side what would that solitary nano would have done?do you think it would have made singur into next gurgaon ala maruti. Every time an industry would want to set up there, there would a conflict.Development would have stopped at Nano only, even if we had allowed the remaining 400 acres. Check mahabharat motors in uluberia, do you think the area greatly improved there?Or industry flooded the region.No it's too impractical there.

I think the present decision to build and industrial corridor of 40 km near raghunathpur is a much more wiser option.If they can provide the infrastructure there, and unhindered land is available there definitely industry can grow there.

Also, I think you last para is a bit over the top.Of course, we want industries but there are some practical problems, we need to address them suitably. You cannot do a singur or nandigram everytime u need to do something.