Streetcars

[Mirage52]

Found this quote:

Streetcars have more than charm and romance going for them, however. At $10 million to $15 million per mile to build, they are 20 percent cheaper than light-rail and are scaled down to serve city centers or specific neighborhoods.

Read more: Return of the streetcar - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1mwYNLeWt

Aside from the Charles Street trolley project, how else could streetcars be used in Baltimore, if at all? Could it be an alternative to the Red Line?

Seems like the city is enjoying success with the Charm buses which pretty much kills any hopes of streetcars returning to the streets of Baltimore.

[Mirage52]

Expanding on my original post, I think a waterfront streetcar from Fort McHenry to Canton (5 miles) would be great.

[CU_rak]

Other than Charles Street (JHU to downtown), I think a Broadway streetcar from Hopkins Hospital on down to Fells and Harbor Point would be the most logical choice. The line would see a great mix of residents, visitors, and Hopkins employees throughout the week.

I also like the idea of a streetcar from Penn Station up through Bolton and Reservoir Hill, ending at the Zoo or Mondawmin Mall. That could really give a huge jolt of redevelopment and renovation to those areas, possibly opening them up to Ft. Meade, Aberdeen and DC-Area commuters.

A line going from downtown through Federal Hill and Locust Point could also work very well, although it would probably face too much opposition to get built.

[Nexis]

You need at least and East - West LRT line , but after that a streetcar network connecting most of Baltimore and Baltimore County might be worth an investment. More connections from Penn Station are needed.....

[Mirage52]

I came up with a rough idea on a waterfront trolley from Fort McHenry to Canton.

I would like it to be an old-fashioned trolley, similar to what they use in New Orleans, or something similar to what San Francisco does and use old streetcars from other cities. If not, a modern trolley like what they have in Portland.

I am guessing the MTA would be in control of it but I would like to see a private company do it.

[BaltimoreSports]

My crazy dream for Baltimore rail travel would be the Red, Blue, and Green Lines expanded, and using street cars to connect everything. Have a street car presence maybe in the county like in Towson and its colleges to connect the Blue Line Light Rail. Or Ellicott City to the new Red Line. Maybe a street car near Eastern Ave to connect Dundalk and Essex more to the Red Line (or maybe possibly expand the Red Line more east).

In the city I can think of is a street car on North Ave to connect the Green Metro to the Blue Line Light Rail. A trolley that connects the Red Line to the new Harbor Point. Maybe a line that goes from the Red/Blue lines and goes down Fed Hill to Locus Point. Maybe a street car on Broadway to connect the Red Line to North Ave Light Rail. Obviously the Charles Street Line. Those and basically replace a lot of the Circular lines.

Just a few examples.

[BaltimoreSports]

Here's a good article on the status of the Charles Street Trolley.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...n-livable-city

[Nexis]

The Separate yellow line should be a streetcar line , not a LRT line.

[RavensFan0606]

Originally Posted by Nexis

The Separate yellow line should be a streetcar line , not a LRT line.

This would make a LOT more sense than another LRT line. The 2 that would make sense to me are Penn Station to Towson and Broadway from JHU down to the water.

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by Nexis

The Separate yellow line should be a streetcar line , not a LRT line.

Not if it's gonna go all the way to Hunt Valley.

Streetcars/trams/trolleys are too slow to cover that much ground. Our LRT barely does a good job of covering all that ground now.

IMO, streetcars should be connectors, like the above post said, getting people to the major transit lines, like they do in Philly and Boston. Shame of it is, we only have 2 major transit lines now and both of them are limited on their own.

[Nexis]

At least connect Towson to Penn Station , also link Lochearn , Parkville , Rosedale , Riverside Park , and Morgan State Univ to Downtown Balt...create a Network that services the various neighborhoods and cities outside the Transit zone.

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by Nexis

At least connect Towson to Penn Station , also link Lochearn , Parkville , Rosedale , Riverside Park , and Morgan State Univ to Downtown Balt...create a Network that services the various neighborhoods and cities outside the Transit zone.

Agreed.

But there are buses that do this now, and faster than a streetcar would be able to. So the only thing a streetcar could do that a bus can't is maybe capture the anti-transit people who don't like buses because they think that only poor people use them and make these routes more aesthetically pleasing with classic trolleys or streamlined modern ones.

[oneworld25]

If a streetcar's not in its own right of way, I don't see any reason for building it. A streetcar not in its own ROW offers no improvement in speed or and only a slight increase in capacity over that of a bus. It may in fact be slower than a bus at times.

Check out this blog post for what I'm talking about. http://www.humantransit.org/2009/07/...ent-truth.html

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by oneworld25

If a streetcar's not in its own right of way, I don't see any reason for building it. A streetcar not in its own ROW offers no improvement in speed or and only a slight increase in capacity over that of a bus. It may in fact be slower than a bus at times.

Check out this blog post for what I'm talking about. http://www.humantransit.org/2009/07/...ent-truth.html

Even on its own ROW, I still think buses can be faster. What's the max speed a ROW streetcar can get to? I don't know about other cities, but the bus drivers in Baltimore have pretty heavy feet, especially on the #40, which is able to use the highway to nowhere for a good part of its trip downtown, and can go 60-65 MPH on this stretch.

In Bmore, most roads aren't big enough to devote ROW to streetcars. They're barely big enough to handle them at all. Take Frederick Road in Catonsville, for example. I'd love to see a trolley or streetcar traversing that street once again, just a stones throw from where I grew up, but it would be a traffic nightmare through most of Catonsville.

I love rail-based transit and I think one of the biggest transit-related tragedies is that most cities had good rail-based infrastructure before the whole GM conspiracy. But what is done is done and the bus, unfortunately, does do a lot of things better than streetcars or even the light rail, albeit just not as sexy or aesthetically pleasing as streetcars.

IMO, the #40 route should be altered a bit and turned into a BRT-style line that is marketed as another LR line. Shit, call it the red line for cripes sake and pocket $1.8 of the $2 billion you were going to spend on the LR.

Replacing current bus routes, especially the QB routes, with streetcars is expensive and replaces one service with a slower, but "funner" mode of transit. I don't know about you but most people ride transit to get somewhere fast and conveniently...not slower and funner.

The waterfront streetcar that I mentioned in the OP is a completely new route that would benefit locals and tourists AND be athletically pleasing. Shit, it would basically give the city a new icon to market itself on...a streetcar in the harbor.

Brilliant!

[Coldspring]

I have found it odd that the LRT that goes into Penn doesnt continue on into East Baltimore. I know that it was part of a plan "yellow line"? or something to that effect.. but to me.. it should continue on to East Baltimore and to the proposed East Baltimore MARC Station. The Metro Subway should be extended up from Johns Hopkins to East Baltimore MARC. From there to NE.. the Green Line could be completed..likely has a LRT as opposed to Heavy Rail...on out through Morgan and up to White Marsh.

There is currently only a southbound switch from the Central Light Rail line into Penn. That switch should become a 'Y' so trains can go north or southbound from PENN as part of this idea

[flugzeug]

Originally Posted by Coldspring

I have found it odd that the LRT that goes into Penn doesnt continue on into East Baltimore. I know that it was part of a plan "yellow line"? or something to that effect.. but to me.. it should continue on to East Baltimore and to the proposed East Baltimore MARC Station. The Metro Subway should be extended up from Johns Hopkins to East Baltimore MARC. From there to NE.. the Green Line could be completed..likely has a LRT as opposed to Heavy Rail...on out through Morgan and up to White Marsh.

There is currently only a southbound switch from the Central Light Rail line into Penn. That switch should become a 'Y' so trains can go north or southbound from PENN as part of this idea

The subway and lightrail are a mess. Nothing really matches up to anything else. I would love to be able to take light rail to East Baltimore!

[Mirage52]

Originally Posted by flugzeug

The subway and lightrail are a mess. Nothing really matches up to anything else. I would love to be able to take light rail to East Baltimore!

Well thats what the Red Line would do.

[flugzeug]

Originally Posted by Mirage52

Well thats what the Red Line would do.

That would rock! My home is out in AACO. There is zero public transportation by me.