Indianapolis Development News

[moochie]

Originally Posted by arenn

I don't know what this article says since I'm not a subscriber:

http://www.ibj.com/water-utility-exp.../article/35767

However, clearly Indianapolis needs to tap a second watershed. I've been on record as saying that a long time. If they think they can just pump groundwater, they're nuts. If I were them I'd build a water tunnel to Louisville. Buy water from the Louisville Water Company (which was already eager to supply Lexington). Set it up so that they can replace with their own facilities on the Indiana side of the river if the relationship goes sour.

I read the article, and it basically said what I already knew: Indy doesn't have a water supply problem, it has a reservoir storage problem. The solutions are easy... but expensive:

1. Make our reservoirs deeper... meaning dredge the hell out of them.. Not only will they hold more water, it'll allow us to take advantage of the occasional flood and save that extra water.

2. Tap into white river in a couple more places to fill the larger capacity reservoirs

3. Release treated wastewater back into the rivers and streams feeding the reservoirs UPSTREAM of said reservoirs. (this is the cheapest solution costing only 20 million) Right now we release wastewater downstream of Indy.. it's not like the water we use disappears into nothingness when we flush the toilet.. it goes somewhere.. we should be reusing it.

It's not that we have an emergency.. we're just going to see our water bills increase as we pay for these upgrades. Conservation should play a role here too.. Indy allows it's people to use as much water as they want for freakin anything.. it's not like that in most of the world.

[arenn]

As someone else noted, it's illegal under the Great Lakes Compact to pump Great Lakes water outside of its watershed (except for a strictly limited allotment because of the previously existing Chicago River reversal).

Also, a few years back Beurt Ser Vaas proposed building a pipeline to Lake Monroe. Interestingly, Hoosier, Lake Monroe was build with the understanding that it would be available to supply water to all Hoosiers. However, after a storm was raised I believe the legislature actually passed a law making the diversion illegal.

I think adding storage capacity on the existing system is ok, but ultimately we need a multi-watershed solution if we are to avoid problems like this. The Ohio River never runs out of water (although I should note Louisville's water as I advocate comes from groundwater, not the River directly). The White River watershed is insufficient since the city could literally pump the river dry.

[cdc guy]

Originally Posted by arenn

As someone else noted, it's illegal under the Great Lakes Compact to pump Great Lakes water outside of its watershed (except for a strictly limited allotment because of the previously existing Chicago River reversal).

Also, a few years back Beurt Ser Vaas proposed building a pipeline to Lake Monroe. Interestingly, Hoosier, Lake Monroe was build with the understanding that it would be available to supply water to all Hoosiers. However, after a storm was raised I believe the legislature actually passed a law making the diversion illegal.

I think adding storage capacity on the existing system is ok, but ultimately we need a multi-watershed solution if we are to avoid problems like this. The Ohio River never runs out of water (although I should note Louisville's water as I advocate comes from groundwater, not the River directly). The White River watershed is insufficient since the city could literally pump the river dry.

Wabash River is uphill from Indy at Salamonie and Mississinewa (and closer) so it wouldn't require much (if any) energy to pump water downhill to Indy. And the reservoirs are already built. New Albany is 265 feet lower than DT Indy. While water will run uphill toward money, downhill is better.

Come to think of it, the Central Canal was once to run from there to Indy.

[socrates#1fan]

Originally Posted by k2h

My guess is that once they come to the realization that the rest of the developing/developed world wants to live like average Americans and energy costs increase, they will re-evaluate their "wants" and make decisions accordingly. The American suburban mentality of "grassy yards, and soccer fields" in every backyard is not sustainable and it's time we all recognize that fact.

As a member of the millennial generation, I can tell that a good chunk of us are never having kids. I think the fertility of my generation (even young Latinos) is exaggerated. Most of us (at least the ones I know, and I know a diverse set of folks) heavily dislike the suburbs (though there's a lot of romanticism for the countryside) and are much more interested in things like green energy and self-sufficiency. In my own family, my grandmother had two kids, who both had five kids, but now? Out of 10 grandkids there is only one expected great-grandchild (and most of us are passing through our most fertile stage of life). I think that things are going to change for the millennial generation much more than people expect.

[moochie]

Originally Posted by socrates#1fan

As a member of the millennial generation, I can tell that a good chunk of us are never having kids. I think the fertility of my generation (even young Latinos) is exaggerated. Most of us (at least the ones I know, and I know a diverse set of folks) heavily dislike the suburbs (though there's a lot of romanticism for the countryside) and are much more interested in things like green energy and self-sufficiency. In my own family, my grandmother had two kids, who both had five kids, but now? Out of 10 grandkids there is only one expected great-grandchild (and most of us are passing through our most fertile stage of life). I think that things are going to change for the millennial generation much more than people expect.

Speaking in my capacity as a Gen Xer, I don't give a flying fuck..

I'm just kidding, but I always get a bit leery when people discuss generational differences. Waaaayy to many generalities. Sorry...

[socrates#1fan]

Originally Posted by moochie

Speaking in my capacity as a Gen Xer, I don't give a flying fuck..

I'm just kidding, but I always get a bit leery when people discuss generational differences. Waaaayy to many generalities. Sorry...

I don't understand. Did I say something offensive to you?

[moochie]

Damn iPhone glitch...

[moochie]

Originally Posted by socrates#1fan

I don't understand. Did I say something offensive to you?

It was a joke. Clearly a misunderstanding due to our generation gap... <cough>

[socrates#1fan]

Originally Posted by moochie

It was a joke. Clearly a misunderstanding due to our generation gap... <cough>

I don't mean to imply that different generations are like different species. But there are a lot of things my generation is facing (and not facing) when we look at our future. Every generation does it, it's part of the engine that drives change IMO.

[arenn]

cdc, I think it would be very politically difficult (much like the Lake Monroe deal) for Indy to get water from elsewhere in Indiana, particularly if reservoir construction is involved. That's why I suggested Louisville. They've got the capacity, plus there's a virtually unlimited surface water supply in the Ohio River if necessary. It doesn't require "stealing" someone else's water.

[idyllic indy]

Originally Posted by ablerock

Yes.

I love these last two responses of yours.

[cdc guy]

Originally Posted by arenn

cdc, I think it would be very politically difficult (much like the Lake Monroe deal) for Indy to get water from elsewhere in Indiana, particularly if reservoir construction is involved. That's why I suggested Louisville. They've got the capacity, plus there's a virtually unlimited surface water supply in the Ohio River if necessary. It doesn't require "stealing" someone else's water.

That's why I suggested drawing from existing reservoirs on the Wabash River system. Much more flow than the "Mighty White".

You may be right about the political difficulty of any cross-basin transfer, though the Wabash control projects have the advantage of being under Army Corps of Engineers control like the Ohio River.

[vitamin R]

Unfortunately, there may be complications to drawing water from the Ohio River due to the boundry between Kentucky and Indiana. The boundary between the states is the northern shore of the river, giving Kentucky control over what is done with the Ohio. Not too certain we could draw water without permission from KY. Of course with the Army Corps of Engineers in the mix, it may be that KY would have no say in the matter at all.

[mobyhead]

Exciting news about the Indystar bldg. I worked security there in '93/94. Ran security patrols in that place top to bottom. Got to know it's layout pretty well. I agree. They must be dealing with a lot of unused space. Why they didn't do this sooner is beyond me. I did not know that the building is an incorporation of a few. That would explain why it always seemed a bit "off" when traversing through the various offices of the place.

[SkywlkrSnd]

Just walked by the Packard condos on Ohio St. and there's a bunch of construction workers removing the brick from the building. Anyone know what this is about? They had the entire East St. facade completely stripped of all masonry.

Edit: Nevermind, I think I found it on the IBJ. Looks like they're replacing the outer skin due to leaks and damages from faulty construction. Hope Kosene enjoys swallowing that pill. Maybe next time just build a better building from the start.

[cdc guy]

Originally Posted by SkywlkrSnd

Just walked by the Packard condos on Ohio St. and there's a bunch of construction workers removing the brick from the building. Anyone know what this is about? They had the entire East St. facade completely stripped of all masonry.

Noticed that a couple of weeks ago on the way to an event DT. Was that a Kosene project?

[nickbeaver]

The IBJ asked on facebook what we would like to see take the Star's building. So what would you like to see?

I would love to first see the building redesigned to be modern, have many windows, and be inspiring. The building would include a few condos, a good amount of office space, and ground floor retail. The anchor to the whole project would be either an AMC theater or a Broadway style theater. Being near Mass Ave, it would definitely do well with Broadway.

IBJ posted they would like to see a City Target go in there, I disagree. A City Target should go on the corner of Pennsylvania and Maryland. The Star's building seems just a tad too far out of the urban core.

[cailes]

Seems like a good spot for more people to live.

[flavius]

Originally Posted by nickbeaver

A City Target should go on the corner of Pennsylvania and Maryland.

I think a full Target should go on the MSA site. There are several full-service Targets in Chicago, with multiple floors above parking, that fit into a relatively small space, and one like these would be perfect. CityTarget is a great idea for much denser places than anywhere in Indianapolis, but any Target even in DT Indy will be serving mostly people who arrive by car to stock up their single-family houses.

[SkywlkrSnd]

Originally Posted by cdc guy

Noticed that a couple of weeks ago on the way to an event DT. Was that a Kosene project?

Yup.
http://www.koseneandkosene.com/pastprojects.shtml