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Old July 28th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #5441
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I think the Sabres proposal is a little weak in the design of the lower floors. Also they mentioned that the Sabres would be looking for more public subsidies than Paladino. (WHY do they need subsidies for this?) Both proposals would have similar amounts of parking spaces.


Another view of the Sabres proposal:

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Old July 28th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #5442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestar View Post
I think the Sabres proposal is a little weak in the design of the lower floors. Also they mentioned that the Sabres would be looking for more public subsidies than Paladino. (WHY do they need subsidies for this?) Both proposals would have similar amounts of parking spaces.


Another view of the Sabres proposal:

how are they going to Fit a hockey rink / Parking ramp in that design????
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Old July 28th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #5443
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how are they going to Fit a hockey rink / Parking ramp in that design????
Both hockey rinks would be on the 6th floor.

I'm guessing that those lower-level brick windows are actually the parking garage.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #5444
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It would be nice if they could merge the two. Buffalo could use some more height!
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #5445
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It would be nice if they could merge the two. Buffalo could use some more height!

Disagreed completely (and besides, any "merging" of the two proposals would mostly be duplication, IE the parking ramp, the hotel, etc.). You might get two more floors out of the office and residential. I'd say Pegula's plan would be perfect if it added any residential but I digress....


I'd rather see The Sabres building here and Paladino put his building efforts into the long stalled Court St development.


Less height for more infill any day of the week.
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Old July 28th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #5446
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I meant take the best elements from each proposal. Paladino's idea of condos and office space and Pegula's idea of 2 rinks. not making 400 hotel rooms and 2000 parking spaces They both could benefit from more glass.

I'd be amazed if either proposal met their timelines for completion: Paladino-finish Dec 2014, Pegula-finish May-June 2015 which in Buffalo means late 2015 early 2016
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Old July 28th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #5447
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I meant take the best elements from each proposal. Paladino's idea of condos and office space and Pegula's idea of 2 rinks. not making 400 hotel rooms and 2000 parking spaces They both could benefit from more glass.

I'd be amazed if either proposal met their timelines for completion: Paladino-finish Dec 2014, Pegula-finish May-June 2015 which in Buffalo means late 2015 early 2016
2 ice rinks arent even necessary next to the arena ....... the rinks literally make no sense to build.

The "northtown" center (amherst pepsi center) already gets national attention plus there are plenty of other rinks around!

I would go with Paladinos idea.

I get why pegula is doing it though. He needs to make more income Buffalo Sabres wise and building something like his "plan" can help that out. Smart businessman!
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Old July 29th, 2012, 06:17 AM   #5448
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does anyone else think it's odd how similar these 2 independent designs are?
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Old July 29th, 2012, 06:23 AM   #5449
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Give it to Pegula. I like them both but I think Pegula could be a major force in Buffalo development in the future. Plus he has over 3 billion in the bank. Paladino needs to work on Court st. Too bad the cant somehow accommodate both. My guess us Paladino will win since he is an insider in BuffalO and knows who to lean on to get it done. Pegula should remind the city fathers who saved the Sabres from heading out of town.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 06:28 AM   #5450
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Also we may need Pegula to step up and buy the Bills and someday build a new stadium. Giving him this project will show him that the red carpet is out and Buffalo really is a friendly place to do business.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #5451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWNY'er View Post
...I think Pegula could be a major force in Buffalo development in the future. Plus he has over 3 billion in the bank.
But yet, he's asking for extra subsidies?

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Originally Posted by ExWNY'er View Post
...Giving him this project will show him that the red carpet is out and Buffalo really is a friendly place to do business.
I think that's the kind of insider back door trading that buffalo need to get away from... not see more of.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #5452
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There's only two proposals for Webster and both are asking for subsidies. While this is a prime block as far as canal side goes, economically it's not prime at all right now. Much, if not all of canal side may require handouts to lure development.

Pegula did not amass a fortune by knowingly investing in losing endeavors. Same with paladino. They don't owe buffalo anything like it or not. Honestly I think a huge part of the problem for canal side is the skyway. Not (just) in a visual sense, but because access to canal side is not convenient. If rt 5 ran through canal side instead of above it, I'm sure there would be more interest from developers.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #5453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homestar View Post
I think the Sabres proposal is a little weak in the design of the lower floors. Also they mentioned that the Sabres would be looking for more public subsidies than Paladino. (WHY do they need subsidies for this?) Both proposals would have similar amounts of parking spaces.


Another view of the Sabres proposal:

That's a pretty dreary looking proposal. Would it have killed them to hide the parking levels a little better?? Or better yet set it back and put more retail or condo units facing the street.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #5454
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Quote:
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But yet, he's asking for extra subsidies?


I think that's the kind of insider back door trading that buffalo need to get away from... not see more of.
Asking for subsidies does seem to be a bit greedy. I always say that it takes money to take money.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #5455
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Asking for subsidies does seem to be a bit greedy. I always say that it takes money to take money.
Let's be real. Every new development downtown has taken subsidies to make feasible. No one is knocking termini for not taking on am&as until the tax credits are increased. New builds have not been built because tax credits are only available for historic buildings. One exception, the Pasquale, has deferred property taxes. Yes, Paying little if any taxes is a form of subsidy. It takes money to make money only if the numbers work. In dt buffalo, right now, the numbers do not work without assistance. It should be obvious.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 02:34 AM   #5456
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I have less of a problem with temporary tax breaks than with other subsidies, because it's money that the city would have never received anyway if the lot remained undeveloped.

But also don't forget the historical tax credits were needed for the special case of older cities like ours to renovate old historical buildings and create a buffer to cover the extra costs of intricate renovations, safety issues, and historical accuracy.

That isn't the case with the Webster block. It's an empty surface lot. There are no renovations... no historical saves... no demolitions... not asbestos... etc. It's basically a shovel-ready site. Incentives should really not be needed there.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #5457
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I heard a rumor that the NFTA has taken back the land that was to be Colvin Estates Phase 2 and that only two lots have been sold out so far. Sounds like that project is not working out as well as planned?
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Old July 30th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #5458
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I heard a rumor that the NFTA has taken back the land that was to be Colvin Estates Phase 2 and that only two lots have been sold out so far. Sounds like that project is not working out as well as planned?
Sounds more like the new people at the NFTA want to make sure they get their piece of the pie from the developers.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #5459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScanTron View Post
Let's be real. Every new development downtown has taken subsidies to make feasible. No one is knocking termini for not taking on am&as until the tax credits are increased. New builds have not been built because tax credits are only available for historic buildings. One exception, the Pasquale, has deferred property taxes. Yes, Paying little if any taxes is a form of subsidy. It takes money to make money only if the numbers work. In dt buffalo, right now, the numbers do not work without assistance. It should be obvious.
Your "it takes money to make money" idea:

even though im not a fan of Pegula / His plan: I think a guy with his pockets / love for the city of Buffalo. Pegula is the guy we need / needed here. He can build his arena / hotel / what ever else its going to be and have no problems doing it!

Yes he will make additionial money off of people / his plan ..... but atleast his plan would be built, create jobs, and we wouldnt just have a parking lot in front of the arena.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #5460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Your "it takes money to make money" idea:

even though im not a fan of Pegula / His plan: I think a guy with his pockets / love for the city of Buffalo. Pegula is the guy we need / needed here. He can build his arena / hotel / what ever else its going to be and have no problems doing it!

Yes he will make additionial money off of people / his plan ..... but atleast his plan would be built, create jobs, and we wouldnt just have a parking lot in front of the arena.
I agree. I'd like to see what kind of impact he can have on Buffalo in the long term. I think this could just be the beginning of some very interesting projects.
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