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Old August 5th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #101
Şölen
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OMG, Croatia is unbelievable. I didn't know it had so much ancient heritage.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #102
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Turkey

Hadrian's Gate in the year 130,




Side Museum,





Library of Celsus completed in 135 AD





Hadrian's Temple



Aspendos Theatre

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Old August 6th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #103
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Rome really defines what "Western" architecture is.
thanks for pictures
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Old August 6th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genzyme View Post
Rome really defines what "Western" architecture is.
thanks for pictures
It is not true. Western and Eastern terms are created in the last days of Roman Empire, after the divison West Rome was Western, East Rome was Eastern. Still Orthodox Church is Eastern Church and there is no way Roman architecture is "Western" architecture because Roman architecture is based on the Greek and Greeks founded the East.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Şölen View Post
It is not true. Western and Eastern terms are created in the last days of Roman Empire, after the divison West Rome was Western, East Rome was Eastern. Still Orthodox Church is Eastern Church and there is no way Roman architecture is "Western" architecture because Roman architecture is based on the Greek and Greeks founded the East.
What a confused post.

The eastern, greek bizantine civilization has very, very little to do with classical or even ellenistic civilization, it's a civilization that has been profoundly changed by Christianity and the Roman Empire.

Saying that western architecture (or culture) was not created in Greece because today this happens to be a Orthodox country is non historical fact.

That having being said

Romans contributed immensely to the development of western architecture. Greek architecture was very armonius but also very static. Romans introduced arcs, domes, decorations, a sumptuous "baroque" style in late antiquity and many, many more innovations.

I would say that in this peculiar field they contributed more than the greeks in the development of western art.

Of course the same cannot be said for most other arts: sculpture, poetry, prose, theatre. In these surely the Greeks had more to say than the Romans
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
What a confused post.

The eastern, greek bizantine civilization has very, very little to do with classical or even ellenistic civilization, it's a civilization that has been profoundly changed by Christianity and the Roman Empire.

Saying that western architecture (or culture) was not created in Greece because today this happens to be a Orthodox country is non historical fact.

That having being said

Romans contributed immensely to the development of western architecture. Greek architecture was very armonius but also very static. Romans introduced arcs, domes, decorations, a sumptuous "baroque" style in late antiquity and many, many more innovations.

I would say that in this peculiar field they contributed more than the greeks in the development of western art.

Of course the same cannot be said for most other arts: sculpture, poetry, prose, theatre. In these surely the Greeks had more to say than the Romans
What you said is "I'm not accepting!" thing. I say it again, the east is founded by Greeks, I can say it again, Roman architecture is founded on the Greek.

Today's situation doesn't change the past. Western civilisation's roots are in the East. I know Iraq sounds very bad when you hear it but it the motherland of the Sumerians who served to the civilisation too much, same as India, Egypt, Iran, Arabia, even Ethiophia. I think no bad situation can take their mother statue. You may be hating all Iran, Greece, Egypt etc but you can't deny they are the mothers of the Western civilisation that you proud alot.

Rougly,

Egypt->Greece&Iran->Rome->Christianity->Renassaince-Reforms travel->Modern ages

Even Christianity is pretty much Eastern. Jesus and Mary and the Twelf was all Easterns and they were dressing, living and looking like Arabs, not like Estonians picture them in wooden houses with red hairs.

Renassaince, do I have to mention it's another thing based on Greek light?



Wikipedia,

in the thread of Byzantine Empire;

"

Early History

The Roman army succeeded in conquering many territories covering the entire Mediterranean region and coastal regions in southwestern Europe and north Africa. These territories were home to many different cultural groups, ranging from primitive to highly sophisticated. Generally speaking, the eastern Mediterranean provinces were more urbanised and socially developed than the western, having previously been united under the Macedonian Empire and Hellenised by the influence of Greek culture. In contrast, the western regions had mostly remained independent from any single cultural or political authority, and were still largely rural and less developed. This distinction between the established Hellenised East and the younger Latinised West persisted and became increasingly important in later centuries, leading to a gradual estrangement of the two worlds.[22]

"

This distinction between the established Hellenised East and the younger Latinised West persisted and became increasingly important in later centuries, leading to a gradual estrangement of the two worlds.

European history is too long, many things changed after two Roma empires, Greeks are Western today but they'll always keep being founder of the East.

Last edited by Şölen; August 6th, 2012 at 06:17 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #107
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Telamones in the Tepidarium (thanks, Wikipedia) by Rachie Roo, on Flickr
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Old August 6th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #108
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Old August 6th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #109
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Columned arcade of the Forum

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Pompeii by Rachie Roo, on Flickr
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Old August 6th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggl View Post
Thank you Sanii for your posts in this interesting thread.
No problem, thank you
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Old August 6th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #111
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Pompeii basilica

The Basilica was the oldest and most important public building in Pompeii. In the beginning, it was a covered market, a meeting place; however, during the earthquake of A.D. 62 the roof fell in. It then became an open-air market and finally the seat of the judicial system.

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Pillar stubs by BennBeck, on Flickr
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Old August 7th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #112
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I mean "Western" in the modern sense, sorry for being unclear about that
modern sense of "Western" means European, and that of European descend (ie. North and South America, Australia and New Zealand), as opposed to the civilizations of the far East and Arabic world.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #113
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Leptis Magna, Libia

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LIBIA.Leptis Magna di ramon.vmorales, su Flickr

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Leptis Magna, al Khoms, Libya di wanderingchiara, su Flickr

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leptis magna di .dExTeR., su Flickr
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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Şölen View Post
What you said is "I'm not accepting!" thing. I say it again, the east is founded by Greeks, I can say it again, Roman architecture is founded on the Greek.

Today's situation doesn't change the past. Western civilisation's roots are in the East. I know Iraq sounds very bad when you hear it but it the motherland of the Sumerians who served to the civilisation too much, same as India, Egypt, Iran, Arabia, even Ethiophia. I think no bad situation can take their mother statue. You may be hating all Iran, Greece, Egypt etc but you can't deny they are the mothers of the Western civilisation that you proud alot.

Rougly,

Egypt->Greece&Iran->Rome->Christianity->Renassaince-Reforms travel->Modern ages

Even Christianity is pretty much Eastern. Jesus and Mary and the Twelf was all Easterns and they were dressing, living and looking like Arabs, not like Estonians picture them in wooden houses with red hairs.

Renassaince, do I have to mention it's another thing based on Greek light?



Wikipedia,

in the thread of Byzantine Empire;

"

Early History

The Roman army succeeded in conquering many territories covering the entire Mediterranean region and coastal regions in southwestern Europe and north Africa. These territories were home to many different cultural groups, ranging from primitive to highly sophisticated. Generally speaking, the eastern Mediterranean provinces were more urbanised and socially developed than the western, having previously been united under the Macedonian Empire and Hellenised by the influence of Greek culture. In contrast, the western regions had mostly remained independent from any single cultural or political authority, and were still largely rural and less developed. This distinction between the established Hellenised East and the younger Latinised West persisted and became increasingly important in later centuries, leading to a gradual estrangement of the two worlds.[22]

"

This distinction between the established Hellenised East and the younger Latinised West persisted and became increasingly important in later centuries, leading to a gradual estrangement of the two worlds.

European history is too long, many things changed after two Roma empires, Greeks are Western today but they'll always keep being founder of the East.
I think you mistook me for some american neo-con western supremacist. I am no supremacist, I know thought that "the west" (meaning the european western civilization) exists. It's a civilization born out of western Christianity during the european middle age, still living today. It traces it's routes into the classical antiquity, a Greek-Roman civilization that fathered both Western and Eastern Christianity.

Iraq sounds bad...who tells you this things? everybody knows civilization, in our part of the world, was born in Mesopotamia and Egypt (India and China being the other cradles of civilization). I very much admire and respect this. But the influence of both into the west, through classical antiquity, is tenous at best while all european peoples look - correctly - at Romans and Greeks as their forefathers. In my case - being an italian - this is much more true than for most
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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #115
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On the other side of the (ancient) world: the Hadrian's wall

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Hadrians Wall di eGuide Travel, su Flickr

Here in Vindolanda (few ruins remains) they found several letters from the roman time.

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Vindolanda di ximeria, su Flickr
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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
I think you mistook me for some american neo-con western supremacist. I am no supremacist, I know thought that "the west" (meaning the european western civilization) exists. It's a civilization born out of western Christianity during the european middle age, still living today. It traces it's routes into the classical antiquity, a Greek-Roman civilization that fathered both Western and Eastern Christianity.

Iraq sounds bad...who tells you this things? everybody knows civilization, in our part of the world, was born in Mesopotamia and Egypt (India and China being the other cradles of civilization). I very much admire and respect this. But the influence of both into the west, through classical antiquity, is tenous at best while all european peoples look - correctly - at Romans and Greeks as their forefathers. In my case - being an italian - this is much more true than for most
I didn't take you as anywhere's supremacist.

We don't need to pretend, mio amico. We all know that Iraq sounds bad. I feel bad for their awesome heritage.

And, if you're saying current Western civilisation born in Middle Ages in Europe with no other's influence, I'd say "it is not true". Current Western type of living? You can't imagine it without a bathroom in the house and a sofa, and both of them are too much Turkish. I'm not even talking about food culture, drinking culture, bazaars-carpets-rugs-towels (almost all still in Turkish design), and many other things that I don't need to remember. I'm afraid almost all Western languages has a douzen sayings about Turks.

And no one can deny the role of India(polo sport, philosophy and architecture for example), Australia&NZ, USA(music, food, sports, entertainment culture, army culture, technology and architecture) in the current Western culture. French Revolution came after the American Tea Party. United States of America is before than European Union and we all know that why Frenchmen wanted to found a European Union. No need to be emotional.


Current Western civilisation's roots are still in Egypt. It is like a journey. Today you see how important are "democracy, economy" etc and both them are Greek words. "Democracy and economy" are Greek but it doesn't mean Greeks do it best. World's highest human civilisation rank is in Europe.

And of course I respect GrecoRoman culture too much. Even our most Eastern and Muslim symbols -our mosques- are based on still-ancient-time of Byzantine basilicas, monasteries, churches.

http://www.arkeo3d.com/byzantium1200/hagia.html
*
http://www.sultanahmetmosque.com/wp-...met-mosque.jpg

And this is my last post about the case in this thread. We are ruining it.
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Old August 7th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #117
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Villa del casale, Piazza Armerina, Sicily

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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #118
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Porta Nigra, Trier, Germany

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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #119
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Often mosaics are connected to Bizantine art, which though is just an evolution of the late Roman Art (The bizantine empire being nothing other than the Roman Empire itself)

Here the mausoleum of Galla Placidia, Ravenna. Built in the last days of the west roman empire

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IMG_8554 - ravenna 2 - mausoleo di galla placidia - san lorenzo di molovate, su Flickr

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Mausoleo di Galla Placidia di aldoaldoz, su Flickr
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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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Old August 7th, 2012, 03:05 PM   #120
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[QUOTE=Şölen;93972390]
We don't need to pretend, mio amico. We all know that Iraq sounds bad. [QUOTE]

no it does not, Iraq is a great Arab country. It does not sound bad.

all the rest is just nonsense, so I will not answer it
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"What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? ... Everything, Senators, which we now hold to be of the highest antiquity, was once new. Plebeian magistrates came after patrician; Latin magistrates after plebeian; magistrates of other Italian peoples after Latin. This practice too will establish itself, and what we are this day justifying by precedents, will be itself a precedent." Emperor Claudius
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